matgriff Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Hi all, I have an ongoing problem with my 1980's Beretta A301 semi-auto. It's developed a problem cycling cartridges. The problem shows itself when manually loading and cocking the gun. Basically the loading plate (carrier plate) seems to stick in the upwards position when loading and cocking the gun, so instead of springing back down when cocking it raises and then sticks causing the cartridges to jam. Looking from underneath, it seems that the plate isn't exactly central in the gun, it's slightly over to one side and appears to be rubbing on the side of the action ? If I remove the trigger mech and carrier everything seems fine and free, it's just when it's fitted back into the action it seems to be a problem. As usual, any help is appreciated. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fen tiger Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, matgriff said: Hi all, I have an ongoing problem with my 1980's Beretta A301 semi-auto. It's developed a problem cycling cartridges. The problem shows itself when manually loading and cocking the gun. Basically the loading plate (carrier plate) seems to stick in the upwards position when loading and cocking the gun, so instead of springing back down when cocking it raises and then sticks causing the cartridges to jam. Looking from underneath, it seems that the plate isn't exactly central in the gun, it's slightly over to one side and appears to be rubbing on the side of the action ? If I remove the trigger mech and carrier everything seems fine and free, it's just when it's fitted back into the action it seems to be a problem. As usual, any help is appreciated. Thanks the release button that pushes the rocker inside the action frame , the bar is not breaking at the point it pivots on the fulcrum is it? Is the fulcrum pin broken ? Post some pictures with the trigger group out and inside the frame with release button pushed in and at rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matgriff Posted March 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Yes, thanks..... I was looking at this last night and thought that the bar doesn't seem to be retracting back into the frame of the action far enough (I maybe wrong) and I wondered if there's a build up of crud behind it somehow, but it could be that its started to fatigue and break at the fulcrum point ? Does the tiny pin on that just knock out with a small punch ? I guess it needs to be knocked out from on top somehow ? I'll post a few pics up later tonight, thanks Mat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matgriff Posted March 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) Some pictures as requested showing the problem. Edited March 21, 2019 by matgriff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 Yes, that doesn't look quite right. As has been said is the pin broken or bent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matgriff Posted March 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 No the pin looks fine. You can see in the extra pic I just added, the carrier plate doesn't look too bad when it's in the down position, but when you push it up to load the carts, it kind of moves over to the right & rubs on the side of the action, which causes it to stick in that position. If I lever it back with a small screwdriver it springs down again. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) Time to strip it all down and look for wear that is causing the mis-alignment of the carrier plate. Edited March 21, 2019 by TIGHTCHOKE Syntax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 hi i have seven of these shotguns about four stripped down and have used them over 35 to 40 years totaly strip your gun and send a photo of the breech block thats the shinney bit with the firing pin going through but towards the back there is a little tail at the rear of the block if you were showing the rear where the hammer strikes the firing pin on the lower left there is a little tail coming of the block see if thats snapped of when u take it to bits do it in an area so maybe u can here the broken bit fall please do that first then write further cheers george 07714 323 909 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matgriff Posted March 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) OK George will do, thanks for the heads up . I'll try and get it stripped out tonight and send some pictures. Actually I have had it all stripped down already, and I found the trigger mech pin was broken, so I replaced that (thought that was the problem initially) I didn't notice any other broken bits, but I'll take a good look later. I think the gun is generally "worn" it's in general good condition, but it's had plenty of use before I got it a couple of years ago, only paid £200 for it and it's been fine for general use. I just need to find out what part's worn causing this issue 🙂 Thanks Mat Edited March 21, 2019 by matgriff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 send a photo of that block from the rear i am looking for the snapped bit been of it coz its cast and it getts sum hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matgriff Posted March 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 Hi, pictures as requested. I can't see any particular issue, apart from some movement in the pin/pivot of the carrier plate in the trigger mech block. I think that could be the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fen tiger Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 On the bottom ramp at the back near the trigger guard there is a release button on your pictures yours does not look as obvious as i remember my Browning having. I will have a look at mine tonight when i get home, , but i don’t suppose the release button itself as moved or got lost and putting the ramp out of alignment some how. where the piston link tube fits in the side of the bolt that is all good in there Right a nice fit? At the front on my browning there is a plate held in by two alen bolts now this is a guide /locking plate not sure if yours as one but my gun had been running with just one bolt and it did work loose and jammed so i replaced the one extended screw with two alen bolts and it never gave any more trouble. One other thing when you fit the trigger group back in the frame you have to push the side release bolt button to get the tang at the side of the bottom ramp to fit in properly, i am sure you recognise what i am trying to say here, but i don’t suppose at some point in this guns history some gorilla as forced things and slightly bent the bottom ramp but not quite enough to interfere with the functionality initially but as wear as set in things have reached a point its now a problem. I am just trying to think of anything i can remember might cause trouble, all i can sujest right now is look at everything carefully you might just spot whats wrong or get a friend it look at it two sets of eyes are better than one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 are we talking browning or berreta on yr photo can u flip the block so i can see where the trigger strikes the firing pin if u look on 1st photo slightly to top of firing pin seems an edge looks a bit rough can you enlarge the silver block more to the rear fen tiger keeps saying browning we r talking berreta here are we cheers g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raw and wriggley Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 Hi there had the same thing with my a400 I know different model but perhaps things haven’t changed that much cant remember what pin they changed but when I get home will try to find the paperwork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matgriff Posted March 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 Yes Beretta A301. To be fair, Fenn Tiger is just using his browning by way of comparison (I think) and I think the Browning & Beretta semi-auto's of that vintage are very similar. I'm coming to the conclusion that the problem must be the actual carrier lever/ramp itself & the pin that holds it into the trigger mech block, because it's definitely moving to the side as it slides up when the cartridge is loaded, and there is some side to side movement caused by a bit of slack in the two holes at the sides & maybe the pin. 2nd photo down in this set of pictures. I think on the later Beretta semi-autos there is some history of bending of that carrier plate/ramp itself Thx Mat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fen tiger Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 hours ago, matgriff said: Yes Beretta A301. To be fair, Fenn Tiger is just using his browning by way of comparison (I think) and I think the Browning & Beretta semi-auto's of that vintage are very similar. I'm coming to the conclusion that the problem must be the actual carrier lever/ramp itself & the pin that holds it into the trigger mech block, because it's definitely moving to the side as it slides up when the cartridge is loaded, and there is some side to side movement caused by a bit of slack in the two holes at the sides & maybe the pin. 2nd photo down in this set of pictures. I think on the later Beretta semi-autos there is some history of bending of that carrier plate/ramp itself Thx Mat Sorry for confusion Beretta 301/ 302 is the same mechanicals as the BROWNING B80 its made by Beretta for Browning and assembled in A Browning plant in Portugal it literally tells you all this on the gun itself. So the browning i have is effectively the same as your 301 with just different action frame and wood work . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matgriff Posted March 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 Yes, my uncle has the exact same Browning B80.... same mechanical's as the 301 -:) Mat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fen tiger Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, propercartridges said: are we talking browning or berreta on yr photo can u flip the block so i can see where the trigger strikes the firing pin if u look on 1st photo slightly to top of firing pin seems an edge looks a bit rough can you enlarge the silver block more to the rear fen tiger keeps saying browning we r talking berreta here are we cheers g Post above George and this thread on shotgun world has a more detailed history. https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=184574&start=0 6 minutes ago, matgriff said: Yes, my uncle has the exact same Browning B80.... same mechanical's as the 301 -:) Mat TBH i am surprised you having any trouble apart from the screw i mentioned on mine being missing its 1981 and as been bomb proof its my go to crow and pigeon gun fits me like a glove. It could be a good idea go over to your uncles if its close enough sit down with both guns that could shed some light on your problem . Edited March 22, 2019 by Fen tiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matgriff Posted March 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 Yep, that's what I'm doing later :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matgriff Posted March 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) Hi, OK so I took a trip over to look at my Uncle's Browing B80 semi-auto, 1980's vintage. Whilst almost the same as my Beretta, there's a few small differences. On the trigger mech block the B80 has a spring loaded pin that stops the carrier plate latching in the down position. I guess this stops you having to depress the side button to load more carts ? B80 trigger is on right hand side in the above two posts. But basically, the B80 displays the same movement to the side when the carrier plate is depressed. On my 301, there is another spring loaded catch near to the spring loaded cartridge magazine that isn't there on the B80 ?? It seems that on my 301 the side of the action where the carrier latch has been rubbing just needs to be gently dressed with some fine wet & dry to get rid of the slight ridging ? The B80 also shows signs of wear at this point. If I fit the B80 trigger block into my 301, it behaves the same, so I know the problem isn't with the trigger mech block. Any ideas what the extra spring latch on the opposite side to the carrier release button is for on the 301 & why it's been taken off on the B80 ? This latch can be seen on my original posed set of pictures, 2nd picture down, top right hand side of the picture. The exploded parts list in the owners manual calls it "shell latch" Thanks Mat Edited March 26, 2019 by matgriff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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