chrisjpainter Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 I have a Specialized Sirrus Elite Disc. It's a lovely bike, except for the fairly horrid 18-gear Sora drivetrain. It's a Shimano Sora 3500 front derailleur, 9-speed read and a 9-speed 11-30 cassette. This is the weak point of a really nice bike and it's making me hate riding it. Can I upgrade it to anything worthwhile without spending so much that I might as well have just sold the bike as is and bought something with better gears? Ideally I'd like to keep the 9-speed set up as I like the configuration, but it's not a deal breaker. I am probably mechanically competent to do the job once I know what it is, but I have no idea what I'd need to do it and how much it's likely to cost. Any help would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Hello. Is this running cable or hydraulic disc brakes? I would think you're likely to find it difficult to upgrade on a 9 speed platform. If your rear wheel will take an 11 speed cassette then an upgrade to a 11 speed r7000 groupset (that's shimano 105). I have actually just built a bike where I took such a groupset off and am about to put on ebay - happy to sell it to a PW member at half the price you'll find it advertised new online - let me know if of interest. The upgrade path from sora is tiagra then 105 then ultegra and finally dura ace, not sure if you can still get tiagra in 9sp, I think it's 10. Either way I would be happy to discuss and advise as best I can on other options too. I reckon the starting point is working out what the rear wheel hub can take in terms of cassette. If you get the model of the wheel then worse case may be possible to find a new hub free body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted June 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Hello. Is this running cable or hydraulic disc brakes? I would think you're likely to find it difficult to upgrade on a 9 speed platform. If your rear wheel will take an 11 speed cassette then an upgrade to a 11 speed r7000 groupset (that's shimano 105). I have actually just built a bike where I took such a groupset off and am about to put on ebay - happy to sell it to a PW member at half the price you'll find it advertised new online - let me know if of interest. The upgrade path from sora is tiagra then 105 then ultegra and finally dura ace, not sure if you can still get tiagra in 9sp, I think it's 10. Either way I would be happy to discuss and advise as best I can on other options too. I reckon the starting point is working out what the rear wheel hub can take in terms of cassette. If you get the model of the wheel then worse case may be possible to find a new hub free body. Ooh that could be of interest! here's the actual bike. https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/sirrus-elite-disc/p/65196 Would your set fit without too much extra expense. The big question is is it enough of a bump up to make it worth the price? Thanks for the swift response sorry should have added: Hydraulic discs Edited June 15, 2020 by chrisjpainter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxphil Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Personally I'd look for a second hand 10 speed 105 front and rear mech, you should be able to adjust it down to work with your 9 speed cassette, my 105 setup had a tiagra 10 speed 11-28 cassette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: Ooh that could be of interest! here's the actual bike. https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/sirrus-elite-disc/p/65196 Would your set fit without too much extra expense. The big question is is it enough of a bump up to make it worth the price? Thanks for the swift response sorry should have added: Hydraulic discs I can't find a spec on the wheels or more precisely the hub. On a road bike the hub body for a 10sp hub / cassette is 34.95mm, for 11sp hub / cassette it's 36.75mm. I suspect your hub is 10sp with a spacer fitted to allow the 9sp cassette to fit and index properly. My set isn't going to fit unless you change to drop handle bars, or at least you'd need different shifters. That said you'd get better braking and cleaner shifts with the r7000 shifters. Are you easily able to measure the internal distance between the frame where the rear wheel fit's that will determine if the wheel is road or MTB spec, which in turn affects the hub that is fitted? Sorry it's not that straightforward. Just now, vmaxphil said: Personally I'd look for a second hand 10 speed 105 front and rear mech, you should be able to adjust it down to work with your 9 speed cassette, my 105 setup had a tiagra 10 speed 11-28 cassette What about the shifters? There's also the crank and chain, which all change a bit through the different speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxphil Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 The shifters should still move the mechs to the correct position as the mechs don't have any indexing in them think of before indexing we used friction leavers, i was meaning you to use your 9 speed leavers to make things clear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Just now, vmaxphil said: The shifters should still move the mechs to the correct position as the mechs don't have any indexing in them think of before indexing we used friction leavers, i was meaning you to use your 9 speed leavers to make things clear Bit lost, how do you select the 10th gear with a 9sp indexed shifter? Also the cable travel per shift and sprocket pitch between 9 and 10 speed are all different, even for the same manufacturer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxphil Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Sorry the confusion comes from me saying 10 speed 105 I should have said just 105 as long as the shifters and cassette are the same 9 speed in the op's case it should work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 OK, got it. Well since my kit is probably not of interest to the OP (drop bar requirement) if @chrisjpainter comes up with a budget we should be able to get him sorted with the best option for the money. I still think the key to all this is working out what the hub on the rear wheel can take in terms of cassette, then go from there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted June 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 Thanks chaps. I have no idea on budget really! That's part of the problem. I don't want to end up with drop-down bars, for sure, but beyond that I'm not sure how much I'd need to spend and whether I'd need to buy a complete new groupset, or whether I could just swap out some components for better ones? If it's a complete groupset, that looks like hundreds of pounds and just not worth doing. but if I could spend a max of 100-150 (ideally less) then that would be an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 Just now, chrisjpainter said: Thanks chaps. I have no idea on budget really! That's part of the problem. I don't want to end up with drop-down bars, for sure, but beyond that I'm not sure how much I'd need to spend and whether I'd need to buy a complete new groupset, or whether I could just swap out some components for better ones? If it's a complete groupset, that looks like hundreds of pounds and just not worth doing. but if I could spend a max of 100-150 (ideally less) then that would be an option. What do you find horrid about the current set-up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted June 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 31 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: What do you find horrid about the current set-up? It's the changing of the gears. once in, they chain runs fine, but too often I'm left with the chain struggling to change over, either at the front or at the back - or both. Inevitably the rear's worse, but there's no one position that's worse than the others; it's all just so clunky. Occasionally I'd have to make three changes to get the one I'd want (going up two then down one or vice versa) or else the chain never fully engages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medic1281 Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 Does it just need a good service and setting up properly by someone that knows what they are doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: It's the changing of the gears. once in, they chain runs fine, but too often I'm left with the chain struggling to change over, either at the front or at the back - or both. Inevitably the rear's worse, but there's no one position that's worse than the others; it's all just so clunky. Occasionally I'd have to make three changes to get the one I'd want (going up two then down one or vice versa) or else the chain never fully engages. I would think there will always be a degree of clunkiness with sora but there is no good reason why the gear changes can't be reliable in the most part. How many miles have you ridden the bike for roughly, I'm assuming you got it from new? Has it's gear changing behaviour gotten gradually worse over time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted June 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 59 minutes ago, Medic1281 said: Does it just need a good service and setting up properly by someone that knows what they are doing? Actually we've tried that. I took it to a friend of mine who at the time worked as a mechanic in a bike shop and he had a play. I think the phrase he used was 'that's probably as good as it'll get!' He's now living in Nambia and is rubbish with emails. Poor form! 43 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: I would think there will always be a degree of clunkiness with sora but there is no good reason why the gear changes can't be reliable in the most part. How many miles have you ridden the bike for roughly, I'm assuming you got it from new? Has it's gear changing behaviour gotten gradually worse over time? I think I got it when it came out in about 2017? It's not had lots of use but enough to break it in and save one squirrel-pothole related incident, it's not been abused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 Just now, chrisjpainter said: I think I got it when it came out in about 2017? It's not had lots of use but enough to break it in and save one squirrel-pothole related incident, it's not been abused. OK, here is my take: A reasonably badly buckled rear wheel will play havoc with gear shifts - as will a loose cassette by the way, I had this on my smart trainer set-up recently (since it's easy to forget maintenance on a static bike) - both would be worth checking. Another area is stretched or sticking gear shift cables. All other things being equal, to get a discernible improvement in shifting quality you may well need to spend more than £150. If I was going to start I'd do so at the rear. If you can get a 9spd 105 rear derailleur, I'd start with that along with a new shifter cable. If the brake and shifter can be replaced separately and you can validate that the rear wheel will take a 10sp cassette then a 10sp cassette, 105 10sp rear derailleur, 10sp chain, new cable and shifter (all for the rear only) would be the logical upgrade path. This should still be OK with the front chain rings despite the fact the 10sp chain is slightly narrower than the 9sp one. After that it'd go with new crank and then front derailleur and shifter (in that order). Hope this helps, happy to discuss further, cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxphil Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 I would first look at the sti on the bars lubricate them and work back to the derailleur lubricating the cables and pivots also take the chain off and clean it and the cassette, then take a view if it still plays up, shame I'm not closer I would be more than happy to have a look for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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