Remember Them

[enfieldspares]

Quote

Like Hurricanes. I always thought they missed a trick with them though - having a couple of Bolton Paul Defiants in each Hurricane Squadron as occasional "tail end Charlies..." could have made for some interesting learning experiences for rookie Luftwaffe fighter pilots

As another has said 'tis a myth of the German fighters being shot down having mistaken a B-P Defiant for a conventional forward firing guns only British single seater. That's the problem when lazy historians repeat an account they've read in another's book rather than search original sources. No known German original source exists that confirms such. The falsehood gets repeated and re-repeated so it becomes believed as true even though it never was.

I think in fact from my own memory as a young lad it was even printed in the "potted history" on the back of the label on the then polythene bagged Airfix kit?

Earlier brave RAF pilots who know also seem always overlooked are those who flew Fairey Battle bombers in France and Belgium earlier on in 1940. And even later the Defiant as a supposed "night fighter" there were more efficient types already in service that could be transferred to that role. The B-P Defiant would have been a huge success if only the Germans had stuck to the way the Boulton-Paul designers wanted them to fight. Or if the Me 109 hadn't been invented.

Edited August 29, 2020 by enfieldspares

[bruno22rf]

As enfieldspares has said - also the German's knew all about the BPD before the War started - it was displayed for all to see. Might have helped a little if the guunner had some means of escape. I have done some research on this A/C as a lad from our village was killed in one whilst testing a demisting system - he had finished his tour of duty on Hurricanes and was posted to Cranwell (I think) as a screened pilot. Testing the BPD according to eye witnesses, one of the wings snapped off - both were killed, his father was the Air Commodore Horace Gordon Dean. 

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, bruno22rf said:

As enfieldspares has said - also the German's knew all about the BPD before the War started - it was displayed for all to see. 

What the RAF did also show the visiting Germans was some of the early Spitfires at the Hendon Air Show in the Summer of 1936. Except it was with one of the initial two blade wooden propeller and not the later to come three blade variable pitch propeller. So the Germans went away, so they story is told, having seen a machine considerably below its actual potential and, to come, future performance. 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by enfieldspares

[fern01]

17 hours ago, Captain Caveman said:

My favourite Bader quote-

“Rules are for the guidance of wise men and for the blind obedience of fools.”

 

One I can never forget

"shush, there's a young man dying in there"

[enfieldspares]

On 28/08/2020 at 02:00, saddler said:

Like Hurricanes. I always thought they missed a trick with them though - having a couple of Bolton Paul Defiants in each Hurricane Squadron as occasional "tail end Charlies..." could have made for some interesting learning experiences for rookie Luftwaffe fighter pilots

I'll recount this story of rookie Luftwaffe fighter pilots. A neighbour of a friend flew ball bearings from Sweden into the UK during WWII. And the Germans from the same airfield flew ball bearings from Sweden into Germany. Between those two aircrews, on the same aerodrome in Sweden there existed an truce. Bot sets of crew were on a mission to deliver ball bearings and that was that. They were not there to indulge in fighting with each other in what were land facilities and air space of a neutral country.

However that didn't apply to the activities of German pilots based in Norway once those British ball bearing flights had left Swedish air space. And my friend's neighbour recounted how on one flight returning to the UK with a 'plane full of "gall garings" (the neighbour was a Black Country man) they were jumped in daylight over the North Sea by a Luftwaffe single seat fighter. The British plane being unarmed and unable to outrun the faster German fighter. The Black Country man (who was pilot) recounted how he immediately brought his plane down until it was flying at mere feet above wave top height.

The German followed him down and took position on his six o'clock for an easy shot and an easy kill. The Black Country man continued his story. "Poor kid. He never stood a chance. As soon as he started to fire his plane dropped altitude and went straight into the drink. Rookie pilot you see in his excitement at an easy kill he'd forgotten that when he fired his plane would immediately lose height from recoil effect of the guns. Still it was a war and it was us or him. Poor kid"

Edited August 29, 2020 by enfieldspares

[Longbower]

Ray Holmes spotted 3 Dornier bombers heading in the direction of Buckingham Palace , shot two up so they peeled away , ran out of ammunition , so then took the tail of the last bomber  by crashing his Hurricanes wing through the fuselage!    Then baled out

Back in a Hurricane , in 48hrs.    . 

So many more of these stories , are just lot to time .