Coterminous certificates

[Cumbrian]

With my shotgun certificate due to expire soon and my firearm certificate due to expire in about 16 months time I applied for coterminous certificates, only to be told that I could do this only when the firearm certificate expires. That means I will have paid for a shotgun certificate lasting only 16 months and then have the cost of the coterminous certificates as well. Am I being correctly instructed by Hampshire Firearms Dept.? Is there any good reason for making the coterminous issue hinge on the firearm certificate renewal?

I really don't understand the system. Enlightenment much appreciated.

[HantsRob]

Due to the extra regulations around FAC, it is seen as the "primary"/lead certificate, and cannot be renewed early. A SGC can be done at any point.

Whilst it sounds odd that you can't do it early, you cannot renew FAC before it's due, hence the info you've been given is correct. So yes, you will need a SGC for 16 months and then pay again, but then every 5 years from then is a big saving of course.

It would make more sense that there is only SGC or coterminous, to enable anyone with an FAC application to automatically get both in some respects! But, yes, FAC is set in stone as the lead certificate. I can't give you a better reason than "because you can't renew FAC early, but you can with SGC if going coterminous".

[Cumbrian]

27 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

Due to the extra regulations around FAC, it is seen as the "primary"/lead certificate, and cannot be renewed early. A SGC can be done at any point.

Whilst it sounds odd that you can't do it early, you cannot renew FAC before it's due, hence the info you've been given is correct. So yes, you will need a SGC for 16 months and then pay again, but then every 5 years from then is a big saving of course.

It would make more sense that there is only SGC or coterminous, to enable anyone with an FAC application to automatically get both in some respects! But, yes, FAC is set in stone as the lead certificate. I can't give you a better reason than "because you can't renew FAC early, but you can with SGC if going coterminous".

Thank you very much for your helpful reply. I suppose I shall just have to grind my teeth and bow to the system, galling though that is. I won't bother with the extra trouble and expense of coterminous certificates in 16 months time because at my age there  will almost certainly be no long term saving. 

[London Best]

Yep, them’s the rules. Most of us have been there at one point in time.

[enfieldspares]

The savings will also be from the need now to pay for GP input ON RENEWAL OF THE FAC AND AGAIN ON RENEWAL OF THE SGC thanks to the deal that BASC though they were getting of ten year certificates in exchange for GP medical input. And just so the BASC people think I'm making it up...here it is:

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/shooting/game-shooting/richard-ali-basc-chief-executive-interview-55148

Quote

“What I’d like to get over is that while BASC has achieved visible things such as firearms legal insurance, our proposal on 10-year licence fees, our work on grouse moors, our Young Shots programme, Green Shoots and so on, much of what we do goes way beyond flag waving from the sidelines.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by enfieldspares

[HantsRob]

2 hours ago, Cumbrian said:

Thank you very much for your helpful reply. I suppose I shall just have to grind my teeth and bow to the system, galling though that is. I won't bother with the extra trouble and expense of coterminous certificates in 16 months time because at my age there  will almost certainly be no long term saving. 

If this is your last 5 years of shooting then I agree just keeping them separate may be a better option. If you're looking to shoot longer, then you already have a break even point for application fee but also Drs fees as it stands. 

It is a shame they can't pro-rata it! 

Have you considered being a little cheeky and ask them at what point can you actually apply for coterminous. If they can renew with less than 12 months left on FAC for example, would they consider a s7 extension for 8 weeks, twice...... and then allow more extensions as you go coterminous? As I write that I know it's crazy and the answer will be no. But, don't ask don't get? I don't know what's left on the SGC, but if you had 3 months left and took FAC down to 13 months they may allow a S7 to get it down to under a year, for coterminous? Massively staw clutching, I am sure they won't allow it but meh. 

Worth asking, if you get a no then you're no worse off. 

OR. If you can go without shotgun shooting for a few months..... if they allow coterminous renewal at 12 months, put your shotguns into storage for a few months with a friend(s), til you can apply coterminous. As a current SGC and FAC holder, I'd hope it wouldn't be more than several weeks to process...... 

 

Or just pay twice.

Edited August 17, 2022 by HantsRob

[HantsRob]

Additional..... they won't renew til it has expired. So that's the bubble burst.

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/circular-0142018-limited-extension-of-validity-of-firearm-and-shotgun-certificates/circular-0142018-firearms-limited-extension-of-validity-of-firearm-and-shotgun-certificates

1. The new provisions in section 28B will apply where an application is made to the police for the renewal of a certificate at least 8 weeks before the certificate is due to expire, but the police are unable to decide the application before the certificate expires. In these circumstances, the validity of the certificate is automatically extended for a period of 8 weeks or until the police decide the application, whichever occurs first. The certificate’s terms and conditions will continue to apply during this period

FYI, s28B:

28BCertificates: limited extension

(1)This section applies where—

(a)an application is made for the renewal of a certificate on or before the day which falls 8 weeks before the day at the end of which the certificate is due to expire, but

(b)the chief officer of police does not determine whether or not to grant the application before the certificate is due to expire.

(2)The certificate continues in force by virtue of this subsection until whichever of the following events occurs first—

(a)the chief officer determines whether or not to grant the application;

(b)the extension period ends.

(3)In subsection (2), “the extension period” means the period of 8 weeks beginning with the day after the day at the end of which the certificate was due to expire.

(4)If the event mentioned in subsection (2)(a) occurs first, and the chief officer grants the application, any period for which the certificate continued in force under subsection (2) is to be treated for the purposes of section 28A(1) as part of the period for which the renewed certificate is in force.

(5)This section does not apply in relation to the renewal of a certificate granted or last renewed in Northern Ireland.]

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/28B

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

The sgc will be a token payment done together with the fac so not really losing any money but definately saving money. Just go with the flow & wait for renewal time, send off early though, earlier the better !!