Big Cats in the british countryside

[al4x]

On the 5th of january, I was in Dumfries and Galloway on a wild boar shoot.

Granted they are bred and then released, but they are there. One of the keepers told us that some wild ones had come and interbred with the reared ones.

So are there wild boars in Scotland ?

I've seen loads. (33 shot in total on our shoot.)

 

That'll be 33 carcasses as proof of an animal that doesn't exist in Scotland then, hmmmmm

 

 

you're missing this statement

 

"Granted they are bred and then released, but they are there"

 

so they are bred to be shot not existing naturally.

[Biffo1262]

I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever there are 'big' cats out there somewhere. Let's face it, there are some really irresponsible people out there and I reckon it's racing certainty that more than one or two have had such animals escape or have been deliberately released by them when they realised what they'd got themselves into. The stupidity of human nature knows no bounds.

[fullbore]

On the 5th of january, I was in Dumfries and Galloway on a wild boar shoot.

Granted they are bred and then released, but they are there. One of the keepers told us that some wild ones had come and interbred with the reared ones.

So are there wild boars in Scotland ?

I've seen loads. (33 shot in total on our shoot.)

 

That'll be 33 carcasses as proof of an animal that doesn't exist in Scotland then, hmmmmm

 

 

you're missing this statement

 

"Granted they are bred and then released, but they are there"

 

so they are bred to be shot not existing naturally.

 

No YOU are the one missing the statement

 

One of the keepers told us that some wild ones had come and interbred with the reared ones.

 

He said they have shot 33 of the wild ones, if I understood him if not I stand corrected, but read again the WILD ones interbreed with the reared ones, if you are going to criticise me, at least take the time to read the WHOLE paragraph, not just until you get to the bit you want to hear

[mr_colt]

From some of the limited footage I have seen of these "creatures" my money is on at least some of the sightings being of African Jackal's. Especially with those very distinctive ears, don't know what the police would say if you "mistook" one for a giant fox while out on a vermin shoot though. :blink:

 

mr_colt.

[fullbore]

I have been reading the other threads on big cats on PW and came across this post which answers your question why no carcasses have been found, they have

 

There are a couple of cases of carcasses of cats being identified - one jungle cat run over by a car near Jedburugh up in the borders, and one shot cat of some kind in a gamekeeper's freezer

[al4x]

a jungle cat though isn't much bigger than a domestic moggie, and lynx aren't that much bigger, probably not the pigeon watch tiger.

 

If you have a look at what domestic cats you can buy legally then the likes of bengal cats would cause a few rumours if seen out and are a very similar size to Jungle cats.

 

http://www.bengalcat.co.uk/

 

Fundamentally my problem is believing we have so many different species of cats breeding freely in the UK without more proof. To breed you have to have 2 of them so why are they not re-colonising the island, the believers state they are very scared of people so keep to their own but we are the ones who go through the quietest bits of the country and you'd expect them seen on driven days or disturbed and treed by hunts.

 

Funnily enough It looks as though if you keep a big cat in the uk legally you need a license though you don't need to notify the authorities if they breed or any die. From that i'd say were any to escape the owner could potentially keep quiet. This site shows how many big cats are kept

 

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/big-cats_uk.html

[Tony9r]

Yes - Summer last year I went lamping in a truck with my brother-in-law, my nephew and a friend for charlie on one of his large permissions.

We heard a squealing rabbit, so scanned with the lamp in that direction and saw a fairly large (bigger than a moggy), dark cat shaped animal with large bright eyes at around 150-200 yards chomping on a bunny that it must of just caught (we didn't shoot any rabbits).

Several seconds after lighting it up, it "leapt" in the adjacent hedge...

 

All four of us saw this thing, and were all rather gob-smacked . We informed the farmer, who said "oh good... it's not just me then!"

Edited January 15, 2008 by Tony9r

[fullbore]

but we are the ones who go through the quietest bits of the country and you'd expect them seen on driven days or disturbed and treed by hunts.

 

I spend at least one weekend a month (going this weeekend) in scotland dressed like a tree, and I have yet to see a pine Marten or a Scottish Wildcat, and have had very few sightings of red squirrel, although I know our ground holds them. Lack of sightings therefore does to me prove non existence

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/big-cats_uk.html

[mr_colt]

cool.gif They are 100% here. One of my shoots I wont go on without a shottie, even though Im airgun shooting. I joined 2 years ago, the previous year, bionicle was walking thro the shoot with a mate, richard, when opposite in a field, approx 300yards wide(will measure next time Im there) Bionicle saw what he described as a jet black labradour, they looked at it thro Richards mkiii with an ags scope on and Richard said that it was far too big to be a dog. It sloped of around some bushes and they failed to follow it ( I would have). The next "sighting" Richard was sitting on a concrete block loading his magazine for the mkiii, with a shottie on his back when the cat walked past approx 20yards from him, he said it didnt even look at him, if it had decided to eat him he would have been a sitting duck, as despite the shottie, he was rooted to the spot. Later in the same season they found a muntjac carcass which looked like it had been shot thro the temples, ie an entry wound one side and an exit the other, the carcass had been picked clean apart from the neck and head. The thing which didnt immediately occur to them was the head wound, both sides were the same , which lead me to the conclusion that it wasnt a gunshot wound, though the land is cleared for .243, no-one in the club ownes one.

In January the following year i joined, Bionicle and I mooched round on a freezing day as saw nowt, we were about to call it a day when there was a big pile of steaming deer poo by the path, i suggested we follow the disturbed leaves and "TRACK" THE MUNTIE. wHICH WE DID, WE THEN CAME TO A RABBIT FENCE AND OVER IT WE FOUND TINY DEER TRACKS, THEN AFTER 20-30 YARDS WE FOUND A BIG FLATTENED PATCH OF MUD, WITH IMPRINTS OF HAIR ON IT, leading up to this were prints the size of my hand which had no claw marks, the other side was a drag mark to the rabbit fence, which had a load of deer hairs on it then nothing, not a trace, all of this must have happenned merely 50-60 yards ahead of us, hence why i take the shottie at all times. Im under no illusions, it probably wont ever come anywhere near me, let alone attack me. I havent seen IT but I have seen very clear eveidence and 2 people i trust implicitley have seen it, not to mention the shoot manager, the farmer and 3 other members of the shoot. Id love to see it, and would never attempt to shoot it unless i thought i was on the menu. wink.gif

 

What carts do you carry in case of need then? SG's?

[fullbore]

Letter in Shooting times this week, guy has provided proof to the authorities and BASC of a sighting , no one has even acknowleged his contact, he is suspecting a cover up

[Blackbart]

There isnt one bit of proof that confims they exist

 

 

Again you seem to be putting forth conjecture without making the effort to se if there is any try typing proof of big cats into google and see what happens

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4671402.stm

 

Balbirnie cast (top), captive puma (right), dog (bottom), leopard (left)

Police believe they have the first conclusive proof a big cat, dubbed the "Beast of Balbirnie", could be on the loose in Fife.

There have been numerous reports of big cats in the Kingdom in recent years.

 

Now officers have had a plaster cast of a paw print verified by experts who believe it is of an 18-month-old exotic large cat.

 

Fife Police's wildlife crime officer, Mark Maylin, said it was most likely to be a print of a black leopard.

 

Mr Maylin said: "There had been several sightings at one time on the Balbirnie Estate near Glenrothes of a big cat so we went down and discovered this print.

 

I am resigned to the fact we are going to have to live with this big cat in the area

 

Mark Maylin

Fife Constabulary

 

"At the time there was a local man who said he had been walking his St Bernard dog in the area but I was convinced it had come from a big cat so I took a plaster cast of it to two experts who said immediately it was from an exotic cat.

 

"They couldn't be species-specific because there wasn't specific clarity in the heel pad but said judging by the size the animal was 18 months old and was the offspring of an animal released illegally in the 90s.

 

"I am resigned to the fact we are going to have to live with this big cat in the area. It hasn't hurt anyone in the past. I would urge people to refrain from shooting it because an injured animal is a very dangerous one."

 

Exciting news

 

Rob Martin, The Cat Survival Trust manager who verified the cast was that of a big cat, said it was "exciting news".

 

"It is definitely a big cat because there were no claw marks and the pad shapes are consistent with a cat's.

 

"It's exciting to think big cats are living wild in Scotland but they will eventually die off. It's most likely to be a leopard."

 

 

Police sent the paw print off for analysis by experts

 

George Redpath, Fife's big cat researcher, said he was "delighted" it had finally been confirmed.

 

"I have always believed there are big cats in Fife after seeing black leopards on four different occasions.

 

"But it is great that finally we have the proof and that an expert has come forward to confirm it is the footprint of a big cat.

 

"Nobody should be unduly concerned because these cats have been here for years. they won't bother you if you don't bother them."

 

I am particularly intrigud by the last sentence, the rest seems to be fairly credible proof to me

 

 

 

E-mail this to a friend Printable version

 

SEE ALSO:

Zoologist studies 'big cat' print

06 Oct 05 | Scotland

South West 'is big cat hotspot'

20 Apr 04 | Cornwall

Sheep painted to deter 'panther'

11 Dec 03 | Scotland

Big cat concerns continue

17 Nov 03 | Northern Ireland

 

 

THERES YOUR PROOF................................http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/4466/ Im sure you can find lots of your big pussies on there!!!! I cant seem to add the link but have a visit anyway.people are even hoaxing hoaxes.It makes good commercial sense to have a beast or 2 about the place look at loch ness!

Edited January 21, 2008 by Blackbart

[fullbore]

! I cant seem to add the link but have a visit anyway.people are even hoaxing hoaxes.It makes good commercial sense to have a beast or 2 about the place look at loch ness!

 

 

So what exactly is Mr Proctors financial interest in the region then? What pecunary advantage would he gain by this hoax

[wol the hunter]

YEP puma.

i have seen pad prints plenty of times, and farmer and some of his brood have seen it several times.it has thousands of acres to roam around and is often seen winding some of the animals up at colchester zoo

[al4x]

Letter in Shooting times this week, guy has provided proof to the authorities and BASC of a sighting , no one has even acknowleged his contact, he is suspecting a cover up

 

 

So the BASC are covering up big cats now, I might add why would they do such a thing?

[catroofel]

i can honestly say that i have seen a real live black panther in the wild in the uk and i am no crackpot nor am i a drunk!!!

we were all stood atop of a down waiting for a shoot day to start all the beaters, 1 head keeper, 2 underkeepers and pickers up

all waiting for beaters trailer suddenly a mummer breaks out amougst the crowd and we all went to look.

to my shock horror on the down the other side of the valley there was a black very large very ALIVE cat scullking along just below the hedge row.

we all saw it and were all sure of wot we saw no mistake

that was the last time i ever went beating there because although i'm sure the cat has no interest in us i just did not feel safe in the

woods knowing it was there some where.

see the shooting times this week in the letters section now thats real proof the guy got a photo and all.

i hasten to add that although the estate had this resisdent preditor they had never had live stock or such like go missing.

these animals are totally adaptable and will scavenge and adapt to suit their needs. i feel they will only take

such things as live stock out of shere desperation as it mean coming into contact with the thing they fear most PEOPLE

but they gotta survive. do i believe in big cats in the uk sure i do, never say never

[fullbore]

So the BASC are covering up big cats now, I might add why would they do such a thing?

 

I have no idea, you would have to ask them, I can speculate that they are being told what they can and cannot publish you have a guess at who might be ordering such things

 

A swamp cat was run over by a car at Hayling Island, Hampshire.

 

A Devon farmer shot a South American leopard.

 

Pumas and panthers are known to cross over a wide area of Mid and North Wales.

A wolverine was also shot by a farmer near Llangollen, in November 1997.

 

Malcolm Moy, former owner of the Argyll Wildlife Park in Inveraray, says: “It started when the Dangerous Wild Animals Act was introduced in 1976,†he said.

 

“Before that you could even buy these things in Exchange and Mart and many people had them as exotic pets. But after the Act local councils told owners to either get a local authority licence and provide secure caging or have their pets put down.

 

“Many couldn’t afford the expensive cages and couldn’t bear to have their cats destroyed, so dumped them in remote places in Wales and Scotland.â€

 

Other beasts could have escaped from insecure small zoos and careless owners.

 

Terry Moore of the Cat Survival Trust believes the estimate of 50 big cats at large may be high. But he is confident there are as many as 24, from seven different species, living on mainland Britain.

 

Meanwhile zoologist Quentin Rose claims to have identified 27 reliable reports of leopards, 32 of pumas and 18 smaller members of the cat family in Scotland, Wales, the West of England and East Anglia.

 

 

http://bigcatnews.blogspot.com/2006/11/wal...ed-escaped.html

 

 

 

There seems to be more reliable proof from very credible people than just your opinion and conjecture, and I assume you have no qualifications or experience in these matters

[al4x]

Be interesting if David at BASC comes up to say MI6 have been on their back not to report it

as obviously its of critical importance to the UK that people shouldn't know about big cats in the countryside

 

Interestingly from 1976, a puma has a life expectancy of up to 25 years, a Leopard up to 15 and a wolverine 10 at most, So either they are breeding or they should all be dead by now, with the max number of 24 of 7 species in the entire uk with spottings far and wide the likelyhood of successful breeding would seem slight

Edited January 22, 2008 by al4x

[fullbore]

Be interesting if David at BASC comes up to say MI6 have been on their back not to report it

as obviously its of critical importance to the UK that people shouldn't know about big cats in the countryside

 

nobody mentioned MI6 only you it seems interesting to note that you choose to focus on the ridiculous, as if to give credulity to your version of things, but choose to ignore the extra evidence laid before you

[fullbore]

Meanwhile zoologist Quentin Rose claims to have identified 27 reliable reports of leopards, 32 of pumas and 18 smaller members of the cat family in Scotland, Wales, the West of England and East Anglia.

 

He believes the known reports are the tip of the iceberg. And he warns that if nothing is done, the big cat population could explode, posing a threat to indigenous wildlife, livestock and humans.

 

yet another credible witness presented for you, no if you can only provide me with one shred of proof they don;t exist but Im sorry, I will not accept your opinion or conjecture or even your insults as proof. I note that you have not taken me up or even mentione my wager

[al4x]

Be interesting if David at BASC comes up to say MI6 have been on their back not to report it

as obviously its of critical importance to the UK that people shouldn't know about big cats in the countryside

 

nobody mentioned MI6 only you it seems interesting to note that you choose to focus on the ridiculous, as if to give credulity to your version of things, but choose to ignore the extra evidence laid before you

 

 

you've got to admit though if you believe the British Press is censored about big cats that it is a little ridiculous.

 

Personally I think we may have recently escaped cats but not a long term breeding population.

[al4x]

Meanwhile zoologist Quentin Rose claims to have identified 27 reliable reports of leopards, 32 of pumas and 18 smaller members of the cat family in Scotland, Wales, the West of England and East Anglia.

 

He believes the known reports are the tip of the iceberg. And he warns that if nothing is done, the big cat population could explode, posing a threat to indigenous wildlife, livestock and humans.

 

yet another credible witness presented for you, no if you can only provide me with one shred of proof they don;t exist but Im sorry, I will not accept your opinion or conjecture or even your insults as proof. I note that you have not taken me up or even mentione my wager

 

he's also been dead for 6 years

[fullbore]

Meanwhile zoologist Quentin Rose claims to have identified 27 reliable reports of leopards, 32 of pumas and 18 smaller members of the cat family in Scotland, Wales, the West of England and East Anglia.

 

He believes the known reports are the tip of the iceberg. And he warns that if nothing is done, the big cat population could explode, posing a threat to indigenous wildlife, livestock and humans.

 

yet another credible witness presented for you, no if you can only provide me with one shred of proof they don;t exist but Im sorry, I will not accept your opinion or conjecture or even your insults as proof. I note that you have not taken me up or even mentione my wager

 

he's also been dead for 6 years

 

why would that make his opinion any less valid?

[fullbore]

you've got to admit though if you believe the British Press is censored about big cats that it is a little ridiculous.

 

 

Really? It has happened before, why they even have a system in place called D notices to deal with it, which would suggest its a regular thing

 

Personally I think we may have recently escaped cats but not a long term breeding population

 

 

So why make all the statements ridiculing me when you have just admitted you believe the same as I do that there are big cats in the English countryside

[al4x]

I've not ridiculed you, you are saying that we have breeding populations dating back to 76, i'm saying any out there if there are any haven't been there long and with a bit of research other than wikipedia and the pro big cat site you can find the source of most of the examples or dismiss them altogether.

Your expert who has been dead for 6 years is not really evidence of big cats in the wild today,

[m00nz00mer]

We were out last night in northumberland, and we heard a loud growl from the bushes behind us! my mate who shoots all the time said hes never heard anything like it, pretty scary like!