ashcmt Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Call the paving police! 11 February, 2008 DEFRA’s launch of a consultation into whether planning permission is needed to pave over front gardens unless permeable paving materials are used sounds great. Any initiative that stops people ripping up their front gardens and putting down acres of industrial hard surfaces that inevitably end up covered in oil stains has to be welcome. And if we are to make any headway on the flooding issue there has to be much greater use of permeable hard surfaces. But before we start cheering too loudly we need to ask if the government going to cough up the money needed for the driveway police needed to enforce this new legislation? It can be difficult to tell the difference between permeable and non-permeable surfaces and without the threat of checks many people may not bother and that is presuming they know about the new legislation in the first place. The second issue is if we are going to make any headway on tackling water runoff then some degree of compulsion is needed to get developers to incorporate sustainable urban drainage systems (SUDS) where possible on new schemes as well as private individuals. Courtesy of Building.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 (edited) Driveway Police? :lol: Now that would be a waste of our tax Edited February 11, 2008 by Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pumpitup Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Trouble is most councils are happy to give permission for driveways as it gets parked cars off the highways and eases congestion situations.........apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulf Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 I ve never understood the apeal of block paving etc a expensive and fairly impractical option, Gravel drives laid with a good subb base never flood and can be reinstated easily in the event of water leaks etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 (edited) Ashcmt - hello - one of my many roles is as one such pavement police (in a way at least)!! What you are talking about is partial removal of permitted development rights, changing the amount of land that you can put down to hard surface without planning permission - so no need for policing really, just that people won't be able to sell their house without the planning permission document. It's all been driven by the Environment Agency (the Flood Risk Management part of their business) - http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/subjects/flood/ and also government consultation with the likes of the Chartered Institute for Water & Environment Managers - http://www.ciwem.org/ A couple of years ago London in particular was losing literally km's of permeable surface to impermeable drives each year. I believe that this is now in force in London, but it looks like it's coming to the rest of the country. With regard to SUDS, since Dec '06 the EA is consulted on all new developments at risk of fuvial and tidal flooding, AND (crucially) sites over 1 hectare in size. On these sites the EA stipuate that flood risk assessments are carried out in accordance with PPS25 (just in case your bored - http://www.communities.gov.uk/planningandb...atements/pps25/ ) which requires an assessment of flood risk from ALL sources. Crtitically on large sites this includes surface water generation. This needs to be dealt with on site via SUDS, attenuation tanks (or better still ponds) and the likes of hydrobrakes. This should result in a 'runoff rate' of the same or better as the sites' previous use (or generally 5l/s/ha for 'greenfield' sites). SUDS are also heavily promoted by the EA to all developers/private individuals - but unfortunately a lot of the system comes back to the over stretched Local Planning Authority. With so many rules and regs to enforce it is difficult for them. Permeable paving is blatantly obvious to the trained eye too, so watch out! Edited February 11, 2008 by Oly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auto culto Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 So basicly if we want our drives doing its going to cost us more money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretman Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 a load of sh#@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 (edited) Auto - at present, depending on what type you choose, it can be a little more pricey. But that price is rapidly coming down due to the higher demand, however you will need to pay for the planning permission too, but ultimately it's a small price to pay to save peoples lives and homes from being wrecked by floods. FM - not a very constructive reply, besides, what is Edited February 12, 2008 by Oly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashcmt Posted February 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Oly sorry for the delayed reply, Cheers for the info, very interesting. I'm looking at PPS 9 at the minute, with regards to using a Green Roof, on a tender project i'm doing at uni at the moment. very very interesting technology! before that i didnt know the PPS stuff existed, i'll definately have a peak at PPS25, its all worth bearing in mind! The previous sites i've worked on, we've always installed attenuation tanks etc...but being as most of my work has been in and around manchester, on relatively small sites, i havent had to get involved with any flood risk management stuff. but no doubt i will in the future so that will come in handy. I think its a very reasonable procedure to prevent people from just paving over drives, as you say, km's of area can be lost in very small amounts of time, and where drainage is absolutely imperative, its got to be controlled. Good luck in your future driveway policing!!!! Regards, Ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulf Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 I cant see that many advantages to permeable paving as oposed to impermeable drained by strip drain and soakaway. These days your not alowed to dischatge rain water into the fould drain anyway so it is simply directed into a soakaway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Paulf, your right, impermeable paving and strip drain and soakaway is as good and is indeed acceptable However, you are allowed to discharge rain water to the foul sewer system, with permission from the utility company, but this is something that should really be drastically reduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Call the paving police!11 February, 2008 DEFRA’s launch of a consultation into whether planning permission is needed to pave over front gardens unless permeable paving materials are used sounds great. Any initiative that stops people ripping up their front gardens and putting down acres of industrial hard surfaces that inevitably end up covered in oil stains has to be welcome. And if we are to make any headway on the flooding issue there has to be much greater use of permeable hard surfaces. But before we start cheering too loudly we need to ask if the government going to cough up the money needed for the driveway police needed to enforce this new legislation? It can be difficult to tell the difference between permeable and non-permeable surfaces and without the threat of checks many people may not bother and that is presuming they know about the new legislation in the first place. The second issue is if we are going to make any headway on tackling water runoff then some degree of compulsion is needed to get developers to incorporate sustainable urban drainage systems (SUDS) where possible on new schemes as well as private individuals. Courtesy of Building.co.uk It will be interesting to see how they can stop me I have had a drop kerb done and will be concreting over what was formerly known as the front garden. If a council want to stop homes being flooded they would do well to stop allowing planning permission on flood plains, the ******* LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berettaman1 Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 quite right LB, seems one must consider if planning consent is being given to the best back pocket contribitor, If you know what I mean! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 It will be interesting to see how they can stop me I have had a drop kerb done and will be concreting over what was formerly known as the front garden. If your in one of those areas currently under these new rules...you will have to watch your back for 12 years (hoping nobody notices/dobs you in) then plead with the council to give you retrospective planning permission...otherwise good luck in trying to sell your house! But like I say, only if your in one of the new areas where these new rules are in place...it all depends on your local planning authority. If a council want to stop homes being flooded they would do well to stop allowing planning permission on flood plains, the ******* They do. Since PPS25 (Dec '06) all planning permission in the flood plain has been banned, or they have had to provide compensatory floodplain storage and build their own defences, as shown in their flood risk assessment that has to be passed by the Environment Agency. If the EA object to the development due to it being, for example, in the floodplain the local planning authority have to refuse the application or fight the EA's desicion directly via the Home Secretary...this has not been done yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 I guess time will tell Oly. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) LB, in my professional capacity I would just say tread carefully. Might be worth ££££'s doing your homework first. Besides, why not have both? http://www.grasscrete.com/ Edited February 18, 2008 by Oly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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