Magpies are gay Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 Please answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled_cky Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 has to be the 22. Aled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpies are gay Posted September 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 I thorght it might be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 of 5 Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 To kill your quarry you must first hit it, and do so in the kill zone. With 12 ft/lb a .177 has a more manageable trajectory. It's as hard to shoot a .22 to 35 yds as it is to shoot a .177 to 45yds accurately. I've watched some top shots at HFT miss more than a few targets out to 45 in .177 and targets are far easier to shoot than quarry. Those shooting .22 at HFT have substantially lower scores than .177 shooters. More and more folk are switching from .22 to .177 for hunting at 12 ft/lb simply because it gives you access to shots that you can't take in .22. A .177 in the head will always work better than a .22 through the ear or jaw. These days I'll only pick up a 12 ft/lb .22 if shooting in a barn at 30 yds or under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEREGRINE Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 I must agree with 1 of 5, having spent half my life shooting with .22 for game when I started FT shooting I swapped to .177. The accuracy is much better with the flatter trajectory, however regardless of caliber the gun is only as accurate as the shooter and you should never take shots at ranges you are not confident of making a clean kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 To kill your quarry you must first hit it, and do so in the kill zone. With 12 ft/lb a .177 has a more manageable trajectory. It's as hard to shoot a .22 to 35 yds as it is to shoot a .177 to 45yds accurately. I've watched some top shots at HFT miss more than a few targets out to 45 in .177 and targets are far easier to shoot than quarry. Those shooting .22 at HFT have substantially lower scores than .177 shooters. More and more folk are switching from .22 to .177 for hunting at 12 ft/lb simply because it gives you access to shots that you can't take in .22. A .177 in the head will always work better than a .22 through the ear or jaw.These days I'll only pick up a 12 ft/lb .22 if shooting in a barn at 30 yds or under. Sorry mate I dont agree with that at all. I have used both calibres at both disciplines for 25 years and the .22 out performs the .177 at 12ftlb in the Hunting field every time. I have lost count of the number of rabbits I have hit in the bonce with the .177 at 30 to 40 yards which have just not been Killed. I appreciate your comments and that is obviously your opinion but I know what i would take out of the cabinet for a evenings shooting. Just as a simple comparison only on Wednesday evening my friend and I went out for 2 hours to our rough shoot which has bunnies everywhere. I took 6 shots at up to 30 yards with my .22 logun and killed 6 bunnies. He took about 11 at the same distance with his .177 410 and killed 6 ( he hit them all ) 2 got back down the bury and probably died and three ran off. FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apbuild Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 .22 disipates much more energy to your quarry than .177. I totally agree with Fisherman Mike's comments. It is the same now with rimfires. Yes, the .177 HMR has a flatter trajectory and a greater range but having used .22 for rabbit shooting, I feel that if I was to use .177, the rounds would just pass straight through my quarry. (Expanding ammunition is the only answer to this argument)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 of 5 Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Think of the size of a rabbits brain and compare that to a .177 pellet. Next think of the size of your own brain and imagine the same brain to projectile ratio required for it. The .177 is to a rabbit what a 12 bore solid slug would be to you. The .177 is huge for the task it is asked to do. The imparting of energy is not what kills. Kicking a rabbit with your foot will impart more energy than any pellet. To prove this shoot a carcass and see how far along the ground it goes - ie it doesn't. Now boot it and you can move it several yards. However booting a live rabbit is highly unlikely to kill it. It is destruction of VITAL tissue that kills. Yes a .22 will destroy more but a .177 will destroy way more than sufficient AND is more likely to be placed on target than the slower .22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plinker Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 i recently shot a jackdaw through the neck with a .22 falcon at 38 metres when i went to pick it up i found another one injured with a big and i mean big hole in its back, the pellet had passed through the first one and fatally injured the second which i quickly dispatched, the point is .22 has enough penetration and deffently more stopping power than .177 and although the trejectory of the .22 is more curved than .177 i think most of us understand this enough to be able to compensate for it. Personally i don't hunt with .177 but on the other hand i know some people who swear by it. Plinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apbuild Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 I think if you are an experienced shot and feel confident in your ability to place the .177 round on the site of a vital organ more times than not, then it is indeed a round that has benefits above the .22. The onus is on the man with the gun to use the round correctly. I just feel that with .177, the chance of missing the vital organ and the round exiting the quarry without killing is the deciding factor for a lot of shooters. None of us likes to hear a rabbit squealing and making a bee-line for the burrows. I shoot .22 rimfire with hollow point winchester sub-sonic ammunition, and I can honestly say, I can not remember any one instance when a round has exited the rabbit I have shot at. Rapid expansion on entry=massive tissue damage=dead quarry! The debate with these two rounds has gone on for years and I'm sure it will go on and on and on and on................. Happy shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 in reply to the original post ,i have to agree with F.M. the .22 carrys more energy to dispatch any target i shoot at in my own personel max kill range of 50 yds tops with an airgun . as to the comment made by apbuild ,your cross reference to the .17hmr passing through your quarry and out the other side ,no it wont the jacketed .17 will shred or explode itself on entering the target ,i have shot this round a lot and can tell you this for a fact if you misscal your shot even a twig branch or heavey grass will make the round unstable enough to shake it to bits thats why its fast becoming a favorite calibre ,its a safe round to use ,dont knock it, try it first ,i think you'l be suprised :yp: martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apbuild Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Last Engineer, I apologise that my post does not read clearly. the first paragraph pertains to the airgun calibres .22 & .177. The rest of my post on rimfire rounds explains the success I have had with .22 calibre. I totally agree with you that, due to the very high velocity of the .17 HMR round, it will break up on impact with any material from flesh, bone, twigs or dirt. If I could warrant the use of .17 HMR on my local golf course, I may consider the variation to my FAC. Alas, there are too many bordering houses/roads for it to be accepted by my Firearms inspector, so i'll have to stick with the .22. Cheers, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpies are gay Posted September 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Fisherman mike, what weight pellets was he using with his .177 410? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 sorry to hear that rob, i think the .17 is a very safe and very effective round to use in exactly that enviro,it has taken off like a strorm over here ,for the simple reson that richocet's will be a thing of the past ,dont get me wrong there will always be that murphy fella with his own sets of laws :yp: ,but generaly speaking its a calibre that is bringing a little more peace of mind to the local shooter in pest control i.e. farm area's,acreage's and so on, also a safer shooting enviroment can be seen by the general public (as much as can be expected anyway ,sorry didnt mean to sound ) by the way i wasnt having a go at you there,just saying if you havent tried it ,and you do get the oppourtunity ,take it ,i did ,my .22" now sits for the miss's to shoot, one other thing you may be able to tell me ,how well would a suppressor work on that ,being its supe/sonic ,dont know if your able to ,but here its a nono ,exhaust systems for guns carry a 10 year sentance not warrenty ,so we dont use them honest good talking to you rob , martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apbuild Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Martin, I use a Sako sound moderator on my .22 rimfire and when shooting sub-sonic Winchester ammo, it is as quiet as an air rifle. When range shooting at Bisley Camp, if I put Federal Hyper-velocity through the same rifle/moderator, it is apparent that the report and the accuracy will suffer. For the rabbit control, my accurised Ruger 10/22 with Sako moderator and Winchester ammunition is the best tool for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digga Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 lets try simplify things, who would do ya most damage a punch from Mike tyson or Julian clary :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 i run a ruger 10/22 myself ,i find its probably one of the best all round .22" s in the bizz ,its rugged reliable and very accurate,ive had mine tweaked at the vets and she sports a volquartsen match hammer forged barrel and trigger,i run a butler creek 25 round mag ,and a muzzle break for barrel lift ,made a few before i settled with a winner,all this runs on a laminated stock for durability , my miss's can now hold groups of 5 within .5 "-.75" at 50 yds :yp: untill her arms get tired , she shoots it better than i do,just wish i could run that muffler you can see it here 3rd gun down http://www.bobsgunsok.com/1022.htm another informative sight on the .22" http://22world.outland.net/cgi-bin/ultimat...ic&f=3&t=000316 have run a number of differing bullets through it and do find the better is more the top of the range for accuracy must admit i find CCI STINGERS to be one of my favorites ,or should i say the guns. there are a host of aftermarket trinkets to improove your 10/22 but one of hte best is the ext mag release,what a pleasure to use get it oyu wont regret it . anyway im off again ,work to do before the range . martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 digga :yp: if its in your landing tackle ether ither Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digga Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 OOOOOH :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 of 5 Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 in reply to the original post ,i have to agree with F.M. the .22 carrys more energy to dispatch any target i shoot at in my own personel max kill range of 50 yds tops with an airgun . I refer you to may last post - It is NOT transfer of energy that kills it's destruction of tissue. From a 12 ft/lb gun a good .22 pellet will arrive at the target with less than a half a foot pound more energy than a good .177 pellet at 30 yds. A punch in the guts will transfer more energy to you than a bullet in the brain. One is substantially more likely to kill you than the other. I take my hat off to you if under field conditions you can accurately shoot a 12ft/lb .22 to 50 yds. I've seen some of the best shots in the country at HFT shoots fail to do so in .177 to just 45 yds, and that's with all the time in the world to aim, with the aid of bracketing to measure the distance and shooting at a 40mm kill zone. The kill zone on most quarry is smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 my apols 1-5 i may of missled you ,the max range i have killed with my HW80 fitted with a tasco 10 x 40 , was 50 yds tops the weapon runs around 28ft lb varying slightly with differing pells ,the range is strathconna county and the target was a sorry looking goffer ,who fell very fast .i didnt mean to infer i do this all the time, it was a shot i took and made most i would say are in the30 yd mark, my apols to all . a chastised martin :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 of 5 Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 No problemo At FAC levels I'll offer no argument that .22 is superior. 28 ft/lb is mighty impressive out of an 80. Most top out at about 22 ft/lb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 as my name implys,the HW80 IS not as stock ,i have the use of a superb facilty and the machines and materials to boot ,nothing inside of the piston chamber is stock have been trying a few differant seals as well ,its quite a lot of fun experimenting with my firearms and the materials and finding out what works and what wont ,at the moment im trying to manufacture a set of ext chokes out of titanium :yp: for the browning xs ,only problem is strength of wall ti tends to rip when produced in a thin wall stucture ,but we'll battle on . see the shop http://www.apollomachine.com/ martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Fisherman mike, what weight pellets was he using with his .177 410? 4.5mm Accupell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpies are gay Posted September 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Would you say that a 10.5 grain .177 pellet, drop a rabbit at 30 yards ALMOST as easy as a 14 grain .22??? If so would the wind effect it a bit more than .22 aswell??? Thanks If any one uses .177 Crosman Premier 10.5grains, tell me what you think of them for hunting? good bad points! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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