amunition for rabbits

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

I've ended up choosing Eley subs.

Now trying different HV's.

You can't beat trying out for yourself.

[BigGun1]

Home load 35 grain balistic tip's into your once fired .223 cases. Use a compressed load of Varget just to make sure the things are really moving, Hide about 125 yards away from the bunnies. When they come out let rip! With a round that to be fair is quite loud....but. Has virtually no chance of ricochet, if you hit the bunnie any where it's done for (no runners) and being quite a bang as appose to the sharp crack of a HMr the bunnies tend to sit there wondering whats going on rather than running, so you might get 2 instead of one

Just a thought.

 

Oh and before any one starts to preach about 'overkill' there is no such thing! dead is dead, it doesn't matter how you get there. The only definition of overkill that I have ever agreed with is 'calling an airstrike on a village to take out a sniper in the church tower'.

 

Edited June 21, 2008 by BigGun1

[Evilv]

double post

Edited June 21, 2008 by Evilv

[Evilv]

These two didn't argue with my .22lr. Shot at about 45 yards with 1640 fps muzzle velocity round. At 45 yards it's still doing about 1400fp. The results speak for themselves. Groups are not anything like as tight as the eley subs though, but shoots flatter and hits like a ton of bricks.

 

We've been 'Stingered'.

Edited June 21, 2008 by Evilv

[peter-peter]

.22 lr's cut a cross in the bullet point with a junior hacksaw,

try it it works an old tip.

[Hunter_zero]

We've been 'Stingered'.

 

MMmmmm now thats really put me in the mood for rabbit pie.

I'm not aiming this at you (cuse the pun) but there seems to be an evolving culture these days to cause as much carnage as possible to ones quarry. Do people not eat rabbits anymore or what? Must admit that I don't eat as many but I do feed them to my dogs and ferrets.

 

John

[peter-peter]

We've been 'Stingered'.

 

MMmmmm now thats really put me in the mood for rabbit pie.

I'm not aiming this at you (cuse the pun) but there seems to be an evolving culture these days to cause as much carnage as possible to ones quarry. Do people not eat rabbits anymore or what? Must admit that I don't eat as many but I do feed them to my dogs and ferrets.

 

John

i would only cut the bullet head to take an head shot, use a body shot nowt left to eat.

i hit a maggie at 70 yards with a crossed bullet and it exploded. in a cloud of feathers, all we found intact was one leg.

ps iv'e a nice recipe for rabbit

Edited June 21, 2008 by peter-peter

[stevethevanman]

Wow to the 22LR phtos...thats quite some damage in those shots by Evilv...i shoot 22lr winnys tryed eley, they group just a little bigger than the winnys, did a little penatration testing and the eley goes 3/4 of the way through a dry phone book at 70yds, the bullet was still intact but had mushroomed nicely.

 

will try the cci stingers tho because buy it sure looks like they stop.

 

i heard you can zero at 70yds and from 30-100yds just aim center chest and BANG and the dirt is gone, also to the comment made by Hunter Zero, if you chest shot a bunny with a 22lr sub the meat damage is acceptable, but it looks as if a chest shot with stinger would make it uneddible, but head shots and your fine.

 

Steve

[Evilv]

We've been 'Stingered'.

 

MMmmmm now thats really put me in the mood for rabbit pie.

I'm not aiming this at you (cuse the pun) but there seems to be an evolving culture these days to cause as much carnage as possible to ones quarry. Do people not eat rabbits anymore or what? Must admit that I don't eat as many but I do feed them to my dogs and ferrets.

 

John

 

That's a fair point and I don't take it ill at all. Long ago in the eighties I used to shoot rabbits with a .22WMR and it was headshots only or maybe the odd chestshot low down if you wanted to eat them, but you certainly hat to throw away the whole rib cage and shoulders. Then after Hungerford, Sartin and a sh*ty attitude from the cops, I gave up for a long time and came back as an airgunner. Well we all know that the only humane thing there is a precise headshot at 35 yards. I now use a rather quaint looking CZ452 zkm with a long barrel and it is the most accurate rifle I ever had with eley subs. They will hit dead on at 60 yards every time as long as I do my part and head shots with the little sub sonic will kill stone dead and do it quietly. However - longer shots are a pain with the mortar shell trajectory of the subsonic round. It's so easy to miss through a wrong range finding judgment in the half dark of evening. That's where the stinger scores, but for sure -HEAD SHOTS ONLY if you want to eat the bunny.

 

I ate about four rabbits in the last week. I'm very much enjoying my garlic, leek, carrot , onion and pork belly rabbit pies. I made two big ones on Tuesday and ate them until Saturday for lunches.

 

 

 

Wow to the 22LR phtos...thats quite some damage in those shots by Evilv...i shoot 22lr winnys tryed eley, they group just a little bigger than the winnys, did a little penatration testing and the eley goes 3/4 of the way through a dry phone book at 70yds, the bullet was still intact but had mushroomed nicely.

 

will try the cci stingers tho because buy it sure looks like they stop.

 

i heard you can zero at 70yds and from 30-100yds just aim center chest and BANG and the dirt is gone, also to the comment made by Hunter Zero, if you chest shot a bunny with a 22lr sub the meat damage is acceptable, but it looks as if a chest shot with stinger would make it uneddible, but head shots and your fine.

 

At long range like eighty yards with stingers, I have tended to aim at the centre of the shoulder or neck, depending on how the rabbit is sitting. Of course then I just discarded the meat from the chest forward. You still have the main meat bearing parts which always were the back and hind quarters. I mean, how much meat is there on the front legs and ribs?

 

The stinger shoots wider groups from my rifle at sixty yards. Probably about an inch and a quarter as against about 3/4 with the eley sub. The flatness is great though. I sighted it dead on at 70 yards and it is for all practical purposes flat between 30 and 75 yards. Cross aimed dead on and they go down like instantly. Never had a runner or one of those annoying ones that go down flat, lie still and ten twitch their way into a burrow five seconds later. I shoot a lot on big burrows where theres a hole every three feet. They can easily vanish down them and I often pull out a well shot bunny from 18 inches into a hole - dead as a dodo. Not with he stinger. They go down and stay there.

 

As for dead on at a hundred - I wouldn't say so if it was sighted in at 70 yards. You'd need a two inch hold over at a hundred. Aiming dead on at a rabbit and you'd have missed it or shot its foot off, which would be cruel.

 

The other thing is that the stinger is loud. I've still shot three half grown rabbits that were sitting within a few yards of each other. They did jump up and look alert, but they stayed around. With the whispering eleys, the neighbours don't even notice the shot at all. Resting on the top of the car or off a cushion, I can shoot a cloverleaf at 45 yards with the eleys. Can't with stingers. You pays, yer money and you takes yer choice I suppose.

Edited June 22, 2008 by Evilv

[stevethevanman]

gonna try and get hold of some stingers i think a place by me does em, and i can get charlie into 60yds were i shoot no probs, so hopefuly i should get him...they look the part of 17hmr damage to the head there.

 

Steve

[Evilv]

gonna try and get hold of some stingers i think a place by me does em, and i can get charlie into 60yds were i shoot no probs, so hopefuly i should get him...they look the part of 17hmr damage to the head there.

 

Steve

 

One other thing you should bear in mind is that they are not as pin point accurate as lower velocity rounds. I suspect that when you get up around 1640 fps, the lead isn't holding so well in the rifling. All the very fast rounds like .22WMR and the Mach 2 and HMR are jacketed and shoot better groups. If you can get to within 60 yards of charlie 'no problem' as you say, if it were me, I'd try and get within 40 before you take the shot with a .22. The damage on rabbits is pretty mega. I shot eleven yesterday and some had not much left of their heads - the other side was gone, but as in all shooting, shot placement is the crucial thing. I'd be more than pleased with the stingers if they shot groups like the eley subs do, fact is, they don't. I need some really calm weather to test them fully, but the groups are twice the width of the eleys.

 

Group sizes at 50 yards in a test shooting of different rounds in inches:

 

 

 

CCI STINGER 1.59

CCI VELOCITOR 1.13

FEDERAL CLASSIC HIGH VELOCITY 1.20

WINCHESTER HIGH VELOCITY HP 1.15

CCI STANDARD VELOCITY .77

REMINGTON STANDARD VELOCITY 1.04

REMINGTON /ELEY MATCH EPS .75

WOLF MATCH EXTRA .40

 

 

semi auto test

 

 

 

This might amuse you a bit. It does me.

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2008 by Evilv

[Guest Mr Pieman]

I use Eley and Winchester subs with my Anschutz. There is no change in accuracy, and I've never had to rezero due to swapping between the rounds. Obviously, I check zero as and when necessary. Out to 75 yards, head shots have never been a problem

Edited June 29, 2008 by Mr Pieman

[dazz]

eley subs work best in my cz.22 cant fault them mate.

[bullet boy]

Tony,In hyper-velocity i bought Remington Yellow Jackets cos i was told they were good but have found out that they are ****(to many flyers)!I have settled on CCI Stingers and have found out that they are very accurate in my Ruger 10/22 out to 120yrds.I use Magtech in subsonic.Hope i have helped you on that question?

[stevethevanman]

i was using eley subs and at 60yds you can gaurantee they fly straight through the bunny, i prefer winnys, purely because they stop better, it would be good to have a lr round with a massive hollow cavity that didnt shoot through at even 50yds so as to dump all energy. oh also looked around for stingers and velocitors and everywere has yellow jackets going to adenbourne field sports to get some hopefully.

 

Steve

[Evil Elvis]

Im curious, these distances most of you are talking about...are they measured? because lasy week, I shoot at the top of a rabbits head at 80yards and hit it in the top of the head...hmmm I thought...no drop at 80 yards, so I place a wooded target there and put a cross on it....5 shots all in a 1" group at 80 yards. Did i zero at 80? ...no!! i zeroed at 60 ....all these distances were measured with a laser range finder and accurate as far as i know.

 

Someone was going on about the poor trajectory at 80 yards, i only hold over 1" at 100 yards after zeroing at 60???

 

Im confused now...im using a cz style, long barrel with remmington subs, which the gun loves...obviously!!!

 

Basically I point straight at what Im shooting at 80 yards and getting hard hitting head shots...eyes poping out etc :blink:

[Dunkield]

Someone was going on about the poor trajectory at 80 yards, i only hold over 1" at 100 yards after zeroing at 60???

Im confused now...im using a cz style, long barrel with remmington subs, which the gun loves...obviously!!!

We need someone with a balistsics program to post the bullet trajectory of .22 sub with 60yard zero.

I would expect more of a drop off than that over that 40yards

[Evilv]

I'd get that range finder checked out EvilElvis - either that or the laws of physics need an overhaul mate. The ballistics you are describing are about the same as the .22 WMR which shoots at 2040fps.

 

Download a copy of Point Blank and see what you ought to find with a subsonic round like the Remington.

 

Get the software here if you want it: Point Blank Ballistics software

 

Ballistics data on common rimfire ammo here: Common Rimfire loads

 

REMINGTON, 38-gr. LR Subsonic HP (SUB22HP), 1050 MV, 93 ME, 0.125 BC

Target Distance: 60

Scope Height: 1.500

Temperature: 70

Altitude: 500

 

Ballistic Data

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect

0 yds -1.50 in 1050 fps 93 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in 0.00 in

25 yds 0.64 in 1006 fps 85 fpe 0.073 sec 1.01 in -0.34 in 0.28 in

50 yds 0.64 in 969 fps 79 fpe 0.149 sec 4.17 in 0.48 in 1.07 in

75 yds -1.69 in 936 fps 74 fpe 0.228 sec 9.65 in 1.92 in 2.40 in

100 yds -6.47 in 907 fps 69 fpe 0.309 sec 17.59 in 4.05 in 4.15 in

 

The drop specified here isn't the holdover, but how much it would have dropped if the barrel was parallel to the ground. In practice, we site them in so that the barrel is pointing a bit upwards. If you sited it in at 60 yards, the holdover would need to be 1.75 at 75 yards and 6.5 inches at a hundred.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Evilv

[Dunkield]

Maybe Essex rabbits have 7" diameter heads

[Evil Elvis]

The fact that i have read those programs is why im confused!!! Bob has seen me shoot some pretty rangey stuff out to 85 yards with no hold over too!!! i was just as suprised, but i will pace out the feild that the range finder said was 80 yards. But i know that i can lay on one side of it, shoot straight at a rabbit off a bipod on the other side, no hold over and wack it in the barnet!!!

 

I set my zero up on my bipod.

 

What ever the reason, im not complaining!!!!!!!

 

I also saw a paced 99 yard headshot from a 10/22, using the same ammo, from a fairly novice rimmie shooter, he laid prone, rested it on his arm and shot straight at the hares head....and hit it in the head....even made bob whistle!!!!

 

Bob help!!! What speed do those remmies travel at?

 

Im going to try it on some targets at 80 yards and see what happens..........I'll be back!!! :blink:

[Evil Elvis]

Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect

0 yds -1.50 in 1050 fps 93 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in 0.00 in

25 yds 0.64 in 1006 fps 85 fpe 0.073 sec 1.01 in -0.34 in 0.28 in

50 yds 0.64 in 969 fps 79 fpe 0.149 sec 4.17 in 0.48 in 1.07 in

75 yds -1.69 in 936 fps 74 fpe 0.228 sec 9.65 in 1.92 in 2.40 in

100 yds -6.47 in 907 fps 69 fpe 0.309 sec 17.59 in 4.05 in 4.15 in

 

I could understand at 80 yards that it could drop 1-2" and i would still wack the bunny.....but according to that, the round should drop 9"+ and that simply isnt the case, id be hitting the ground in front of it, ....unless they ahve all been killed by richochets!!!. I have only missed one bunny (close range)and never held over. Im not saying im dead eye **** and im only referring to the cz style.the other gun i bought is very good, a german voere but the cz has the edge for accuracy.

 

im going to have to go down the farm later and do some testing....if it stops raining!!!

[Evil Elvis]

Just dug the box out, it says to expect a 4" drop at 100 yards... ......so if this is the case and in shooting 80 youd expect less, maybe theres enough error margin for me to be consistant at 80 yards.....a very forgiving round perhaps...lol :blink:

[Dunkield]

I also saw a paced 99 yard headshot

Roughy how long are his legs

 

Baz are you talking about subs or hypersonic .22's?

[Evil Elvis]

:blink: SUBS!! i paced it and am 6'2". as bob is my whitness i cannot tell a lie....Bob reckons 90 yards.

 

i dont like supersonics they are too noisy, though i do carry a clip full of them just incase a "bigger vermin" turns up.

[bob300w]

I also saw a paced 99 yard headshot

Roughy how long are his legs :blink:

 

Baz are you talking about subs or hypersonic .22's?

Much as I hate to agree with anybody that wears a pink hat on a regular basis, it's all true. They were Remington HP S/sonics that Baz was using, and the 10/22 shot that he described was with my gun, using CCI HP S/sonics at 1040 FPS. To say that I was gobsmacked would be an understatement, The guy that did it had used air rifles previously, but not a 22rf, I believe.

I saw several very long range shots the night Baz is referring to, all free-standing. I also saw a spectacular shot from the hip that night, spectacular in that the hare was two feet away and he missed it completely, don't ask!

So, you are finally coming around to the 10/22 way of thinking then Stuart? You mustn't let the performance of Mung's 10/22 bias you in any way, any gun with Mung on the end of it shoots that badly.

 

No idea how long the rabbits legs were, we didn't measure them.

Edited July 7, 2008 by bob300w