JohnGalway Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 (edited) . Edited September 3, 2009 by JohnGalway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col s10 Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 well if we can go kick *** in the middle east,the least they can do is put a former part of the ussr in its place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallowbuck Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 (edited) Actually the Georgeons attacked a much smaller Ossettia? So they reap what they sow! No one condemned the Americans for attacking a totally unprovoked assault on Afghanistan and Iraq. Hundreds of thousands more have died as a result, even though Saddam Hussein was deposed!!!Double standards I think? Edited August 9, 2008 by fallowbuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col s10 Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Actually the Georgeons attacked a much smaller Ossettia? So they reap what they sow! No one condemned the Americans for attacking a totally unprovoked assault on Afghanistan and Iraq. Hundreds of thousands more have died as a result, even though Saddam Hussein was deposed!!!Double standards I think? did they attack.dont think so.the georgeons wanted to join nato.putin said years ago that russia would never allow this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 It may get interesting if the Oil / Gas pipelines that supply Europe get "accidentally bombed" by russian planes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col s10 Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 yes well ,thats when,your bills go up 200 percent.just bacause of that exuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted August 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 (edited) . Edited September 3, 2009 by JohnGalway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col s10 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 very well put. and i agree 100 percent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustyfox Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 And what do you think the Russians think of us in Iraq? They will be thinking the same about us as we are of them. Df Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted August 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 (edited) . Edited September 3, 2009 by JohnGalway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col s10 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 your first reply made me think.your second made me think ,you are insane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted August 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 (edited) . Edited September 3, 2009 by JohnGalway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col s10 Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 cos i said so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larson Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 just think of all the extra refuges we will be able to take in now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallowbuck Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 I have no likeing for Bush or Putin,they are both warmongering Hawks as far as I'm concerned. Just how do you expect other countries to respect us when we constantly cow tow to the Yanks.I nearly threw my breakfast up when Bush was on telly today spouting ,about how China should allow Love and religion! What would he know about these matters? In the words of John McEnroe "You Cannot Be Serious"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted August 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 (edited) . Edited September 3, 2009 by JohnGalway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beretta Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 and we get all our extra troops from where if nato go in. think not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted August 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 (edited) . Edited September 3, 2009 by JohnGalway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbruno Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 its all about postering the west we have our own plans for control and our own ideas of a new world order russia and china want to control there piece of the pie and the more territory that becomes western allinged is a threat to them especially former allies to the old warsaw pact. it is all so rediculouse and we will never have harmony in this world we brainwash our people to do the upper classes dirty work, i am a soldier but my alliance is not to any government and or so called enlightent world leadership, my only alliances are to my regiment my people and the ideals of true freedom every country in the world yours and mine will cease to exist at some point and so it is simply stupid to fight and die only for re drawable national boundries but to fight for true freedom which is the only real just fight our world is in shambles and lets face it nobody wants to share we will always have a 3rd world because its good for us cheap labour and cheap resourses so we keep it that way its all bloody sin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallowbuck Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Seems to have faired up again, apparently there is a oil/gas pipeline that serves the West and is highly desirable for both countries.Oil is the new Gold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden22 Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Read back on the history. While South Ossetia did want independence after the break up of the Soviet Union, no one recognised it. Not even Russia. Georgia has offered them their own rule as long as they stay in Georgia. Seperatists actually provoked this current fighting after breaking a cease fire agreement I believe. Georgia, within it's rights I believe, moved to reassert control over it's own territory. Russia has, as usual, been meddling in other countries affairs by issuing Russian passports to those who are in effect Georgians. South Ossetia is not part of Russia, but by offering passports Russia can now act under the pretense it's defending it's own citizens. You know, we're talking about the same people here who cut off gas to Ukraine when elections didn't go they way they wanted, no gas in the middle of winter. People who've used poision to kill people they didn't like in London (and attempted to poision the president of Ukraine). If the Russians were honestly on the moral high ground, then why not act under the UN and go down a responsible road. But, oops, nope, they won't be doing that as they want their old empire back and what we are seeing now is the result of their economic bullying not working. Russia stirs up trouble in a neighbouring country, then invades under a pretense. Georgia has oil and gas pipelines which bypass Russian pipelines, they are looking to move towards the EU and NATO. The people in control of Russia, don't forget Putin (he's not gone away you know) and other ex KGB people (remember them, lovely people) are hell bent on stoping their neighbours making up their own minds on how to run their own soverign countries. This case is of a little country being bullied and battered by a big country, at a time other big countries are bogged down elsewhere. Russia ain't run by saints. It's just realpolitik I suppose John. I can't see that there is much that anyone can do about it. Russia is an immensely poweful country and if it wants to throw its weight about, it will. In fairness to Putin, he's been an exceptionally good leader for the Russian people. In particular he has manged the economy very prudently (stop giggling at the back). As a consequence he is an enormously popular figure in Russia. As for the UN, well I can't see what that corrupt and useless body has to do with the moral high ground. As an aside, if anybody fancies a speculative investment Russia is in my opinion one of the most attractive markets in the world. Wel worth a look. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Read back on the history. While South Ossetia did want independence after the break up of the Soviet Union, no one recognised it. Not even Russia. Georgia has offered them their own rule as long as they stay in Georgia. Seperatists actually provoked this current fighting after breaking a cease fire agreement I believe. Georgia, within it's rights I believe, moved to reassert control over it's own territory. Russia has, as usual, been meddling in other countries affairs by issuing Russian passports to those who are in effect Georgians. South Ossetia is not part of Russia, but by offering passports Russia can now act under the pretense it's defending it's own citizens. You know, we're talking about the same people here who cut off gas to Ukraine when elections didn't go they way they wanted, no gas in the middle of winter. People who've used poision to kill people they didn't like in London (and attempted to poision the president of Ukraine). If the Russians were honestly on the moral high ground, then why not act under the UN and go down a responsible road. But, oops, nope, they won't be doing that as they want their old empire back and what we are seeing now is the result of their economic bullying not working. Russia stirs up trouble in a neighbouring country, then invades under a pretense. Georgia has oil and gas pipelines which bypass Russian pipelines, they are looking to move towards the EU and NATO. The people in control of Russia, don't forget Putin (he's not gone away you know) and other ex KGB people (remember them, lovely people) are hell bent on stoping their neighbours making up their own minds on how to run their own soverign countries. This case is of a little country being bullied and battered by a big country, at a time other big countries are bogged down elsewhere. Russia ain't run by saints. Are you sure of the reason for the Conflict in georgia? try reading this, ok its probably horse droppings but it does make you think? Operation Brimstone ended only one week ago. This was the joint US/UK/French naval war games in the Atlantic Ocean preparing for a naval blockade of Iran and the likely resulting war in the Persian Gulf area. The massive war games included a US Navy supercarrier battle group, an US Navy expeditionary carrier battle group, a Royal Navy carrier battle group, a French nuclear hunter-killer submarine plus a large number of US Navy cruisers, destroyers and frigates playing the "enemy force". The lead American ship in these war games, the USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN71) and its Carrier Strike Group Two (CCSG-2) are now headed towards Iran along with the USS Ronald Reagon (CVN76) and its Carrier Strike Group Seven (CCSG-7) coming from Japan. They are joining two existing USN battle groups in the Gulf area: the USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN72) with its Carrier Strike Group Nine (CCSG-9); and the USS Peleliu (LHA-5) with its expeditionary strike group. Likely also under way towards the Persian Gulf is the USS Iwo Jima (LHD-7) and its expeditionary strike group, the UK Royal Navy HMS Ark Royal (R07) carrier battle group, assorted French naval assets including the nuclear hunter-killer submarine Amethyste and French Naval Rafale fighter jets on-board the USS Theodore Roosevelt. These ships took part in the just completed Operation Brimstone. The build up of naval forces in the Gulf will be one of the largest multi-national naval armadas since the First and Second Gulf Wars. The intent is to create a US/EU naval blockade (which is an Act of War under international law) around Iran (with supporting air and land elements) to prevent the shipment of benzene and certain other refined oil products headed to Iranian ports. Iran has limited domestic oil refining capacity and imports 40% of its benzene. Cutting off benzene and other key products would cripple the Iranian economy. The neo-cons are counting on such a blockade launching a war with Iran. The US Naval forces being assembled include the following: Carrier Strike Group Nine USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN72) nuclear powered supercarrier with its Carrier Air Wing Two Destroyer Squadron Nine: USS Mobile Bay (CG53) guided missile cruiser USS Russell (DDG59) guided missile destroyer USS Momsen (DDG92) guided missile destroyer USS Shoup (DDG86) guided missile destroyer USS Ford (FFG54) guided missile frigate USS Ingraham (FFG61) guided missile frigate USS Rodney M. Davis (FFG60) guided missile frigate USS Curts (FFG38) guided missile frigate Plus one or more nuclear hunter-killer submarines Peleliu Expeditionary Strike Group USS Peleliu (LHA-5) a Tarawa-class amphibious assault carrier USS Pearl Harbor (LSD52) assult ship USS Dubuque (LPD8) assult ship/landing dock USS Cape St. George (CG71) guided missile cruiser USS Halsey (DDG97) guided missile destroyer USS Benfold (DDG65) guided missile destroyer Carrier Strike Group Two USS Theodore Roosevelt (DVN71) nuclear powered supercarrier with its Carrier Air Wing Eight Destroyer Squadron 22 USS Monterey (CG61) guided missile cruiser USS Mason (DDG87) guided missile destroyer USS Nitze (DDG94) guided missile destroyer USS Sullivans (DDG68) guided missile destroyer USS Springfield (SSN761) nuclear powered hunter-killer submarine IWO ESG ~ Iwo Jima Expeditionary Strike Group USS Iwo Jima (LHD7) amphibious assault carrier with its Amphibious Squadron Four and with its 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit USS San Antonio (LPD17) assault ship USS Velia Gulf (CG72) guided missile cruiser USS Ramage (DDG61) guided missile destroyer USS Carter Hall (LSD50) assault ship USS Roosevelt (DDG80) guided missile destroyer USS Hartfore (SSN768) nuclear powered hunter-killer submarine Carrier Strike Group Seven USS Ronald Reagan (CVN76) nuclear powered supercarrier with its Carrier Air Wing 14 Destroyer Squadron 7 USS Chancellorsville (CG62) guided missile cruiser USS Howard (DDG83) guided missile destroyer USS Gridley (DDG101) guided missile destroyer USS Decatur (DDG73) guided missile destroyer USS Thach (FFG43) guided missile frigate USNS Rainier (T-AOE-7) fast combat support ship Also likely to join the battle armada: UK Royal Navy HMS Ark Royal Carrier Strike Group with assorted guided missile destroyers and frigates, nuclear hunter-killer submarines and support ships French Navy nuclear powered hunter-killer submarines (likely the Amethyste and perhaps others), plus French Naval Rafale fighter jets operating off of the USS Theodore Roosevelt as the French Carrier Charles de Gaulle is in dry dock, and assorted surface warships Various other US Navy warships and submarines and support ships. The following USN ships took part (as the "enemy" forces) in Operation Brimstone and several may join in: USS San Jacinto (CG56) guided missile cruiser USS Anzio (CG68) guided missile cruiser USS Normandy (CG60) guided missile cruiser USS Carney (DDG64) guided missile destroyer USS Oscar Austin (DDG79) guided missile destroyer USS Winston S. Churchill (DDG81) guided missile destroyer USS Carr (FFG52) guided missile frigate The USS Iwo Jima and USS Peleliu Expeditionary Strike Groups have USMC Harrier jump jets and an assortment of assault and attack helicopters. The Expeditionary Strike Groups have powerful USMC Expeditionary Units with amphibious armor and ground forces trained for operating in shallow waters and in seizures of land assets, such as Qeshm Island (a 50 mile long island off of Bandar Abbas in the Gulf of Hormuz and headquarters of the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps). The large and very advanced nature of the US Naval warships is not only directed at Iran. There is a great fear that Russia and China may oppose the naval and air/land blockade of Iran. If Russian and perhaps Chinese naval warships escort commercial tankers to Iran in violation of the blockade it could be the most dangerous at-sea confrontation since the Cuban Missile Crisis. The US and allied Navies, by front loading a Naval blockade force with very powerful guided missile warships and strike carriers is attempting to have a force so powerful that Russia and China will not be tempted to mess with. This is a most serious game of military brinkmanship with major nuclear armed powers that have profound objections to the neo-con grand strategy and to western control of all of the Middle East's oil supply. The Russian Navy this spring sent a major battle fleet into the Mediterranean headed by the modern aircraft carrier the Admiral Kuznetsov and the flagship of its Black Sea Fleet, the Guided Missile Heavy Cruiser Moskva. This powerful fleet has at least 11 surface ships and unknown numbers of subs and can use the Russian naval facility at Syria's Tartous port for resupply. The Admiral Kuznetsov carries approximately 47 warplanes and 10 helicopters. The warplanes are mostly the powerful Su-33, a naval version (with mid-air refueling capability) of the Su-27 family. While the Su-33 is a very powerful warplane it lacks the power of the stealth USAF F-22. However, the Russians insist that they have developed a plasma based system that allows them to stealth any aircraft and a recent incident where Russian fighters were able to appear unannounced over a US Navy carrier battle group tends to confirm their claims. The Su-33 can be armed with the 3M82 Moskit sea-skimming missile (NATO code name SS-N-22 Sunburn) and the even more powerful P-800 Oniks (also named Yakhonts; NATO code name SS-N-26 Onyx). Both missiles are designed to kill US Navy supercarriers by getting past the cruiser/destroyer screen and the USN point-defense Phalanx system by using high supersonic speeds and violent end maneuvers. Russian subs currently use the underwater rocket VA-111 Shkval (Squall), which is fired from standard 533mm torpedo tubes and reaches a speed of 360kph (230mph) underwater. There is no effective countermeasures to this system and no western counterpart. A strategic diversion has been created for Russia. The Republic of Georgia, with US backing, is actively preparing for war on South Ossetia. The South Ossetia capital has been shelled and a large Georgian tank force has been heading towards the border. Russia has stated that it will not sit by and allow the Georgians to attack South Ossetia. The Russians are great chess players and this game may not turn out so well for the neo-cons. Kuwait has activated its "Emergency War Plan" as it and other Gulf nations prepare for the likelihood of a major regional war in the Middle East involving weapons of mass destruction. The two-ton elephant in the living room of the neo-con strategy is the advanced biowar (ABW) that Iran, and to a lessor extent Syria, has. This places the motherlands of the major neo-con nations (America, France, the United Kingdom), as well as Israel, in grave danger. When the Soviet Union fell the Iranians hired as many out-of-work former Soviet advanced biowar experts as possible. In the last 15 or so years they have helped to develop a truly world class ABW program utilizing recombination DNA genetic engineering technology to create a large number of man made killer viruses. This form of weapon system does not require high tech military delivery systems. The viruses are sub-microscopic and once seeded in a population use the population itself as vectors. Seeding can be done without notice in shopping malls, churches, and other public places. The only real defense to an advanced global strategic biowar attack is to lock down the population as rapidly as possible and let those infected die off. Unless the public gets it act together and forces the neo-cons to stop the march to yet another war in the Middle East we are apt to see a truly horrific nightmare unfold in OUR COUNTRIES. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustyfox Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 That is something to think about. Are you saying the Russians are using the war against the georgians as a diversion? while they gather there naval power together? Something is happening it got to be, Russia may not want the West in Iran as that means we will have control of one of the biggest oil supplies. Which could mean that Russia's oil and gas will become less profitable Df Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 I had better apply for my FAC prety soon me thinks!!!! kdubya - where did you download this from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden22 Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 That is something to think about. Are you saying the Russians are using the war against the georgians as a diversion? while they gather there naval power together? Something is happening it got to be, Russia may not want the West in Iran as that means we will have control of one of the biggest oil supplies. Which could mean that Russia's oil and gas will become less profitable Df DF, Russia already has Europe over a barrel (boom boom) - she supplies 25% of Europe's total natural gas. Rumours that much of the rest is supplied by a certain gentleman from Essex are unconfirmed. As for oil, I would expect her oil production to rise considerably. Russian oil companies actually keep very little of what they make - around $40 per barrel. The government is likely to raise this limit to encourage further exploration and to make more fields financially viable. Putin has been very sensible with the proceeds of the oil bonanza, establishing a stability fund that means that the country is effectively debt-free. Russia is in very good shape in a lot of ways, whilst the west is heavily indebted and neutered (most of Europe) or very stretched (USA). Russia is in a great position going forward, as it has bundles of everything that the world is clamouring for, from gold to wheat. It is also in a position to rapidly expand its production. Putin himself is in a rock-solid position - he is justifiably enormously popular at home. No surprise it feels able to flex its muscles, whether that's assassination in London or war in Georgia. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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