Dunkield Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 But other than something someone said, where is the information MC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 I will find it Stuart don't worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Thanks. It seems the thing that makes these ranges so vunerable is they are affected by rules and regs and 'laws' from so many bodies. Like: NRA NSC MOD The Home Office Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 I believe the regulations for Bisley are governed by the NSC/MOD with the NRA supposedly looking after the shooters interests. The home office used to look after all civilian ranges but that has been handed over to the NRA or NSRA depending on what range it is (Small/Fullbore) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Here is the section from the Home Office Guidlines. Looks to me like they are saying OK to zero with it, but not for competitons etc. 4.7 Section 10(2) of the 1997 Act amends section 5A(4) of the 1968 Act so that the use of expanding ammunition is in connection with the various exempted purposes. This allows, for example, a deer stalker or vermin shooter to zero with their rifle on a range or other suitable land and to do sufficient training and testing with the expanding ammunition. It does not allow them to take part in target shooting or any competitions, such as running deer using expanding ammunition. For this reason, the quantity of expanding ammunition or bullets for such ammunition which any shooter is allowed to possess at any one time should be carefully controlled by the certificate (see also paragraph 3.17). Consideration should though be given to each shooter’s individual circumstances, particularly where re-loaders are acquiring missiles or where the shooter is a professional deerstalker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Another little snippet. You can't use .22-250 at Bisley because it exceeds the max velocity allowed. Actually 5.56mm is tight, I'm sure some of it is over. Neither can you use .375 H&H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-munsters Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 The home office used to look after all civilian ranges but that has been handed over to the NRA or NSRA depending on what range it is (Small/Fullbore) Not quite true. The M.O.D used to "look after" ranges ie they would come and inspect ranges and recommend grant/renewal/refusal of Range Certificates. That was passed to the NRA a while ago as the M.O.D feared litigation after some plantpot fired a home made bullet over a backstop to see how far it went! On checking their own criteria they realised lots of spent bullets were falling outside their danger areas. They soon passed the buck to the NRA which, fortunatley, has actually worked out quite well for buiders of new ranges. The H.O does not approve ranges and never (to my knowedge) ever has. They approved clubs only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorba3 Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 There have been many issues raised in this thread and as an NRA RCO i thought I'll give you my 2ps worth! 1. Expanding ammo is not banned at Bisley, But is restricted in the following way: a. You can not use Exp ammo in NRA competitions b. You can only use Exp ammo if your certificate allows you, subject to NRA specific approval. This usually means Zeroing but there are some who don't have this restriction on their certificates. Ref: FAQ's NRA contact us! http://www.nra.org.uk/common/asp/general/FAQ.asp?site=NRA c. You may not use Exp ammo on electronic targets. d. Prohibition of Solid Copper or Bronze Bullets was brought into operation 07/07/07 due to ricochet problems. As far as i am aware this is still the case. 2. 375 H&H is allowed and is a minimum calibre in some events in the Historic competitions. BISLEY RANGE SAFETY REGULATIONS issue 1 Jan 2009 for Rifle ranges, no specific calibre limitation (but see para 5. d. below) but: a maximum muzzle velocity of 3280 ft/sec (1000 m/s), and a maximum muzzle energy of 3319 ft. lbs. (4500 Joules); No tracer, incendiary, armour piercing, armour piercing incendiary or any other rounds containing any igniferous or explosive substance may be used on Bisley Ranges at any time unless prior permission has been given by the Director of Shooting. Permission will rarely be given and then only in exceptional circumstances. 3. This brings me to the new HME regulations. As from last year it has been the case that new procedures are in place with regard to firearms/ammo which exceed 4500J up to the range limit of 7000J. On each and every occasion the shooter wishing to fire such a firearm / ammo are to prove the sighting of the firearm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirnovember Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Can you buy non-expanding ammo for use in the feild? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorba3 Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 sirnovember; you are not allowed to use target type bullets for stalking/vermin. The RSPCA will not like you neither will the cops. If you are in a position to shoot deer or vermin, you should have expanding ammo on your certificate for the specific calibre/species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Such was my concern about electronic targets I actually cleared it with the range officer that it was OK to shoot the static and running Deer competitions using .223 V-Max.David Knowles BASC who orginised the event was Ok with it also . This took place on Oct 2007 though Stuart P will confirm However can't see it being much of a problem for myself in the futre as I sure ain't interested in taking this proficiency test so I can't shoot at Bisely anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 .375 H&H has a muzzle energy of around 4,500 ft lbs. I am under the impression that the big game/classic competitions have been severely curtailed since the new MOD regulations came in. Actually, setting a top limit based on energy is not entirely fair. The purpose of the limit was to ensure any bullet that goes "over" does not travel beyond the fallout zone and is based on a 7.62 target profile bullet. A .375 for example having a larger and less aerodynamic bullet would be unlikely to travel that far anyway. This discrepancy becomes more pronounced as you go towards the larger calibres. A 458 Win can top 5000ft lbs but will lose velocity much quicker than a 7.62. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 I've shot on Short Siberia 2 or 3 times... and I've never once owned a FMJ or match round Pretty much everyone I've come across has been shooting expanding. But yet I do remember reading somewhere that it's a bit naughty to do so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 I phoned Bisley and asked them, according to the guy on the phone (Not Fred but another chap) it is perfectly ok to use expanding. Looks like I was wrong, but I had definately heard it somewhere as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorba3 Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 1. Expanding ammo is not permitted in NRA competition or on the NRA's Electronic targets, I did not say you are not allowed to use it on the range. But you should clear it with the office first. Ref: Roger Speak (Firearms Liaison Officer) and in FAQ's on the NRA website about half way down: http://www.nra.org.uk/common/asp/general/FAQ.asp?site=NRA 2. The Running deer is administered by the BSRC which have their own rules concerning expanding ammo. Although Bisley ranges encompasses all ranges The British Sporting Rifle Club have negotiated their own set of rules and procedures. (contact: Chairman JK of the BSRC for details). 3. High muzzle energy rifles/ammo (4500-7000j) can be used provided they are sighted in using the HME procedure on NRA ranges. Exception is on the BSRC ranges who have their own procedures The range rules have been worded so that the reader doesn't stop reading at the first paragraph and continues to read up to paragraph 3. ie 7000j limit. (Director of Shooting, Martin Farnan). BISLEY RANGE SAFETY REGULATIONS issue 1 Jan 2009 i. for Rifle ranges, no specific calibre limitation (but see para 5. d. below) but: a maximum muzzle velocity of 3280 ft/sec (1000 m/s), and a maximum muzzle energy of 3319 ft. lbs. (4500 Joules); iii. for High Muzzle Energy (HME) firearms (see para 5 a. below) the limits are: a maximum muzzle velocity of 3280 ft/sec (1000 m/s), and a maximum muzzle energy of 5160 ft. lbs. (7000 Joules); In this case special zeroing procedures are required as explained in para 5 b. below. Ref. NCC Website pdf file range regulations: http://www.nsc-bisley.co.uk/common/asp/gen...&category=4 Also the Solid bullet prohibition is now permanent (ref: Director of Shooting). Nil illegitimi Carborundum! Happy Shooting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Thanks Zorba, that seems to give us what we have been looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorba3 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 HOT News: for those wishing to exceed Bisley Ranges Max velocity (3280ft/sec) a dispensation has been negotiated and members of the British Sporting Rifle Club are allowed to use Cartridges with a MV up to but not exceeding 1350m/sec, (4429ft/sec) providing the ME does not exceed 2600Joules (1918 ft/lbs). In addition BSRC members are allowed to use Bullets designed for use on Dangerous Game, including those without lead core. Therefore it may be a good idea to become a member of the BSRC! All other users must comply with the Standard Range Regulations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I am sure that will only apply on the BSRC range and not all ranges. You can use up to 4500 joules anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorba3 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 As i said BSRC members! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorba3 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 BSRC members at the BSRC range! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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