LeeinVA Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I take your point, but in the UK laws regarding gun control have been slowly pushed forward over a number of years. In the UK, it is a privledge to own a firearm, not a right. So you have a priviledge to defend yourself? While the thugs take your rights What part of that priviledge is going to protect your loved ones? Because we all know the thugs follow and obey all laws.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LXX73 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Comparing statistics from one country to the next really doesn't cut it. Different cultures, different ideals. Therefore different stats. Not that Id go down the route of believing stats that some thinktank have blown out of their ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeinVA Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Comparing statistics from one country to the next really doesn't cut it. Different cultures, different ideals. Therefore different stats. Not that Id go down the route of believing stats that some thinktank have blown out of their ****. I agree there are many variables to any issue.. The one misconception i like is how some some may see us in the US as have old west style shoot outs.. Let me tell you a story.. I went to the local store to purchase some food for our days shoot.. My .44 Mag was strapped on my hip in plain sight to all.. No one seemed to mind that i had it.. I can only guess how many people around me had a CCW My wife, my baby girl , and myself all have a conceal to carry permits.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LXX73 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 As stated I have no problems with gun ownership in America but I think tighter controls on the people applying for firearms are required. You seem like a sane enough individual Lee so I cannot see how these controls would effect you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 As stated I have no problems with gun ownership in America but I think tighter controls on the people applying for firearms are required. You seem like a sane enough individual Lee so I cannot see how these controls would effect you. sane?!?! sorry couldnt resist.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeinVA Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 sane?!?! sorry couldnt resist.... You heard the man Babb's.. He said sane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeinVA Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Those of us that do have a carry a CCW do have a more extensive back ground check.. They dig deep into your back ground and this can take up to three months, and you must take a safe gun handlers course, or if prior military you can show proof.. The permit is $50.00 and needs to be renewed every five years.. I do not agree with all my country's gun laws, but the point i want to stress is that to LOSE even one, by the hands of the Government is an open door for them to take more.. They should be thinking of ways to make you happier and safer not disgruntled and afraid to protect yourself.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 You heard the man Babb's.. He said sane thats why i almost choked!!! Those of us that do have a carry a CCW do have a more extensive back ground check.. They dig deep into your back ground and this can take up to three months, and you must take a safe gun handlers course, or if prior military you can show proof.. The permit is $50.00 and needs to be renewed every five years.. I do not agree with all my country's gun laws, but the point i want to stress is that to LOSE even one, by the hands of the Government is an open door for them to take more.. They should be thinking of ways to make you happier and safer not disgruntled and afraid to protect yourself.. something i 100% agree with, most people are too afraidof the cops and legal system to defend themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeinVA Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 thats why i almost choked!!! something i 100% agree with, most people are too afraidof the cops and legal system to defend themselves He apprears to be an intelligent man babb's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LXX73 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Then would you object to the same measures being implemented for every individual trying to obtain firearms? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeinVA Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Then would you object to the same measures being implemented for every individual trying to obtain firearms? . The back ground checks i can deal with, but i am not going to pay anyone for my right to own a gun, nor is anyone coming to my home to inspect those that i have as they are already entered into the system each time I purchase a fire arm.. And i wont renew my rights to gun owner ship every five years either.. The major issue is the government taking rights away.. Let them take one and they shall keep taking.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trussman Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 So you have a priviledge to defend yourself? While the thugs take your rights What part of that priviledge is going to protect your loved ones? Because we all know the thugs follow and obey all laws.. No part of the privledge is going to defend my loved ones. In the UK it is not acceptable to use firearms to defend yourself, although you still have the right to defend yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeinVA Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 No part of the privledge is going to defend my loved ones. In the UK it is not acceptable to use firearms to defend yourself, although you still have the right to defend yourself. Its not fair for y'all to go to a gun fight with a knife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trussman Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Its not fair for y'all to go to a gun fight with a knife No, but I like a challenge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeinVA Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 No, but I like a challenge Gotcha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 "In the UK it is not acceptable to use firearms to defend yourself" I thought the law was changed last year to allow for possible defense with a firearm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trussman Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 "In the UK it is not acceptable to use firearms to defend yourself"I thought the law was changed last year to allow for possible defense with a firearm. Not to my knowlege, but let's face it: half the police force don't know what the law on firearms are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Of course one could not do that just if a local chav broke in and was nicking the TV, but I think it allows if there is no other alternative and like multiple attackers who are very dangerous or another firearms equipped attacker broke in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trussman Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 It's a gray area, which sadly no one seems to want to cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 "In the UK it is not acceptable to use firearms to defend yourself"I thought the law was changed last year to allow for possible defense with a firearm. 'New' legislation was brought in last year (theres a shock for Labour ) which was actually just the old legislation but cynically used (to quite good effect) to alay the fears of people who have held back from defending other people that were being attacked and to counter the fact, sorry, argument that in this country you're not permitted to defend yourself In this discussion i think a distinction needs to be made between 'American self-defense' and 'British self-defence'. Obviously laws differ from state to state but from what i've read in America someone who has entered your home or personal space is regarded automatically as an assailant, whether you're in fear of your life or not and you are therefore permitted to defend yourself (or others), the degree of force you use compared to the level of threat you feel is still taken into account but the courts are far more likely to find in favour of the person who was the subject of the initial attack. In Britain it would seem that both the assailant and the person subject to the assault are on a level playing field until force is used, even if a person has unlawfully entered your home or has aggressively approached you. Therefore it comes down to who assaulted who first, who used the greater force and god awfully, was it 'reasonable' given the circumstances. Of course what is reasonable, if for example you came home to find your front door damaged, your wife and kids should be in the home and you hear a commotion upstairs, and what is reasonable to 12 people sitting in a nice warm court room months after the fact are usually completely different things :( I read a story in 2005 where this exact scenario happened and the home owner went into the kitchen, got a knife and started up the stairs. Just as he did that the scrote who had broken in, threatened both his wife and child, robbed the place AND was brandishing a crowbar, came running down the stairs, the bloked clashed with the burglar on the stairs and the knife ended up in the scumbags back, puncturing his lung and he had to be rushed to hospital. The bloke defending his family ended up doing (an albeit short) stretch in prison. Ah, justice, ain't it BRILLIANT (!) Personally i fully support the American system on this one. If someone comes into your home without permission they have relinquished their rights and the home owner should be allowed to use NECESSARY force to expel them or to remove themselves from the situation. This doesn't mean i'd avocate getting the 12 bore out, fill it with solid slug and cut anyone in half you find in your house without challenging them or telling them to leave but if that person refused and threatened the home owner they should have the right to use the gun without fear of going to prison, or even losing their FAC for that matter. So in answer to your question you CAN defend yourself with a firearm in this country but i wouldn't even like to think of what circumstances you'd have to be in to not end up in jail. Maybe if you were on your own against the entire Taliban, or if Satan himself rose from the ground and came at you with am M134 mini-gun, and only then if he screamed at you "I'm going to kill you <insert name> and other than shooting me there is no way i will reconsider my actions!" Things are so bad here I would even vote for the Liberal Democrats if they would change 'reasonable' BACK to 'necessary' force, and thats saying something! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiho Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 in america you have to pay $250 to be aloud a sound moderator But i wouldnt mind a .223 ar-15 in semi auto and not ****ty straight pull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper6 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 I like American gun laws, I only wish we had them here in the UK. Ahh, lets not forget about a certain Mr Thomas Hamilton, who gunned down a class full of children with legally held handguns. draconian European anti-gun legislation. I'd call America, a place where they believe vehemently in Creationism draconian. Plus the small matter of lives saved. Gun Deaths USA -2004- 29,569 from here Gun deaths UK- 2004 - 51 from here You're giving the power of life and death to untrained, panicky, and possibly mentally unstable people. Bad Idea. Keep the guns in trained hands please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeinVA Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Ahh, lets not forget about a certain Mr Thomas Hamilton, who gunned down a class full of children with legally held handguns. I'd call America, a place where they believe vehemently in Creationism draconian. Plus the small matter of lives saved. Gun Deaths USA -2004- 29,569 from here Gun deaths UK- 2004 - 51 from here You're giving the power of life and death to untrained, panicky, and possibly mentally unstable people. Bad Idea. Keep the guns in trained hands please This is why i love this site.. This is a prime example I have always considered another mans opinion.. One thing is certain though? i wont go to jail for defending myself.. The bloke that attacked me would as he broke the law.. He would go to jail after he recovers If he ever did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) "So in answer to your question you CAN defend yourself with a firearm in this country but i wouldn't even like to think of what circumstances you'd have to be in to not end up in jail." Exactly, imagine what would happen if you were loud and mean and confronted a would be robber with a baseball bat, the mere shock of someone standing up to them would be enough for them to run away, but if you just confronted them and BRANDISHED a firearm they would just about kak themselves, rethinking their life of crime. In most circumstances you wouldn't need to FIRE your gun, just to show it and they would probably run away. Criminals are usually cowards, they go for weak prey so someone defending themselves they are not going to risk life and limb for that while you defending your own house are willing to fight to the death if needed be. Edited February 17, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 "Bad Idea. Keep the guns in trained hands please" Fair enough I understand your view but do not agree with it, I udnerstand where you are coming from, but I don't know if you understand that criminals don't care for the law and they might not be very profficient at handling firearms since they hold them ILLEGALLY and haven't had to train or do any courses or go through any vetting before obtaining them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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