celtic invader Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Angelo. An application for moderators should be made in the section used for the acquisition of additional firearms and the expanding ammunition requirement should be placed in the ammunition required for possession and acquisition sections. There is a difference between 'target' .22rf, that you will have used at the club for target shooting and hollow point ammunition traditionally used for vermin/live quarry. Whilst both will expand on impact, the hollow points are specifically designed to expand to a much greater degree, therefore maximising the tissue damage and shock values on impact and ensure a greater stopping capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epic Fail Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 thanks.. i have buy 1000 keep 1500 .22 on my ticket so far do i have to ask for an aditional ammount of expanding ? or just specifically ask for expanding and not give an ammount ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 in west yorks, when you ask for the vermin cond, expanding gets added automatically not sure how your guys do things. but stick a letter in telling/asking them for what you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celtic invader Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Angelo No - the total amount of ammunition would not be required to change, just the fact that you wish to possess expanding ammunition is sufficient. Your FAC will be returned with the same amounts for acquisition and possession (always remember not to exceed your possession limit when you acquire) but the new heading will read 'Ammunition including expanding ammunition and expanding missiles' and in the additional conditions section on page one you will then find the permission for possession and its qualification of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epic Fail Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) Angelo No - the total amount of ammunition would not be required to change, just the fact that you wish to possess expanding ammunition is sufficient. Your FAC will be returned with the same amounts for acquisition and possession (always remember not to exceed your possession limit when you acquire) but the new heading will read 'Ammunition including expanding ammunition and expanding missiles' and in the additional conditions section on page one you will then find the permission for possession and its qualification of use. my certificate already has that heading but i did not ask for expanding ?? Edited May 11, 2009 by angelotambini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Where's Mung then?? :lol: Seen he's disappeared! AT - Your problem is mate you didn't quite express yourself right fella - nothing wrong with that - there are a few on here you can ask anything, others brandish torches and pitchforks! Dammed good job they can't burn people at the stake anymore!! to PW! gotta say on reading the first two pages l knew what was coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celtic invader Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Angelo OK But you cannot purchase, possess or use expanding ammunition unless you also have the permission in the additional conditions section on page one. This you will get (probably) when you apply for your variation to use your .22 for vermin control over land for which you have permission and which has been passed for that calibre of weapon. Before we go any further, could you answer a few questions for me so that I can better understand where you are at present and what do you wish to accomplish. I am presuming that you have had your FAC grant for acquisition of a .22 and that you have already acquired the rifle. 1 Can you tell me for what use you originally applied for the weapon - was it for target use at a specific range and you are now seeking to vary this to include vermin control on a specific piece of land? 2 How long have you had the FAC? 3 What are your current Additional conditions? 4 Has the land already been approved for .22rf by SWP FLD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epic Fail Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) 1 Can you tell me for what use you originally applied for the weapon - was it for target use at a specific range and you are now seeking to vary this to include vermin control on a specific piece of land? my original was to shoot targets at tondu (only) yes now i want it to incluse shooting over this land 2 How long have you had the FAC? 6/5/09 3 What are your current Additional conditions? only to be used whilst a member of tondu target shooting club and on ranges suitable for safe use of this class 4 Has the land already been approved for .22rf by SWP FLD? yes it had the farmer already has people shooting .22 on there Edited May 11, 2009 by angelotambini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celtic invader Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Angelo Ok Have you acquired a .22 yet? and does it have to be kept on the club premises? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epic Fail Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) i have 2 .22s and no they are in my house with the rest of my guns Edited May 11, 2009 by angelotambini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celtic invader Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Angelo Good - at least you have been properly screened and your home security is up to standard, so your application for the variation should go smoothly. As previously stated fill out your variation form, state the use to which you are seeking the variation for - remember that although moderators are only tubes with baffles, they are treated as are rifles for the purpose of use and possession because of the change they make to the weapon to which they are or can be attached. You will need to provide a good reason for the use of a moderator/s - although prevention of hearing damage is a good one for Centre Fire moderators it does not always work for Rim Fires because of the much lower noise levels of the latter. A stipulation by the farmer would help, or predator control near game bird rearing, release pens, or other livestock that might be unnecessarily disturbed. Send or take your application to Bridgend and wait for the response. You might get a further visit, or you might not. Good luck. p.s. Do not loose heart if you are turned down at your first application, just keep on trying and one day you will succeed. Do not pay too much attention to any criticism you might perceive from forums like this one, all forum members are very protective over their sport and are suspicious of all newbie’s because of the tricks and bad press they get from anti's and animal rights campaigners. My personal belief is that if you are open and honest with all who enquire, you will certainly help some and you may even convert some but you will never hurt anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epic Fail Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 do i have to state that i wish to do night shooting too ? or is that automatically allowed with the change in conditions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroku4399 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 you dont have to tell them you want to do night shooting but i always tell the police if i am going night shooting as a member of the public may phone the police and it could save a lot of hassle. the police will give you a number to quote i always put this into my phone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epic Fail Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 okay thanks ive written a little letter also that im going to put into the variation form "im applying for a variation of cartificate number "bla bla bla" as i have recieved permission to shoot .22 rifle and shotguns for the destruction of Foxes and Other Virmin at "pen-y-castell farm" kenfing hill.. i am requestinf 2 (two) sound moderators for .22 as i have two .22 rifles to use over the land.. thes are also needed as there are other livestock on the farm also i am requesting expanding ammunition to uses on the land against the virmin and foxes" then i signed it and put my name at the bottom and adress at the top does that cover enough ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celtic invader Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 You do not have to state on your application at what time of day or night you will be wishing to shoot. Unless there are specific conditions to the contrary on the land in question (Very unlikely) or the farmer/Land Owner/Person who owns the sporting rights objects - which you should have been made aware of when you first discussed permission - you should have no legal problem in shooting at night for vermin. HOWEVER I would strongly recommend that you get to know the other users of the land first. This will give you an insight into shooting with more experienced rifles and from a safety point, ensure that you are all aware of each other’s movements and intentions. If you intend to shoot at night, this is probably the most dangerous of all conditions because of target identification and backstop difficulties, you would be wise to be in the company of experienced people and you do not want to 'bump' into someone with a rifle who is shooting in your direction not knowing that you are there. Trust me, Night Shooting is fraught with danger for the experienced rifle. I would not even think about it If I were you, not until you have 'Served an Apprenticeship' of a few seasons on the same land and met up with and got to know all those that already shoot there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epic Fail Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 i wouldnt want to do it any time yet unless i was using my air rifle id only be shooting live ammo in the day until i kno exactly what i am doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celtic invader Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 You can still get shot no matter what you are carrying! 117 posts not bad for one topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epic Fail Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) yes true but i wouldnt risk anything until i thoroughly know the land and surroundings.. Edited May 11, 2009 by angelotambini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Where's Mung then?? :lol: Seen he's disappeared! AT - Your problem is mate you didn't quite express yourself right fella - nothing wrong with that - there are a few on here you can ask anything, others brandish torches and pitchforks! Dammed good job they can't burn people at the stake anymore!! to PW! gotta say on reading the first two pages l knew what was coming! Seriously though, I am speachless he has a ticket. Anyone reading this thread from start to finish who does not reach the same conclusion needs their bumps felt. I thought the FAC process was to ensure people knew a bit about shooting and were safe - it should not be left to internet forums no matter how warm and cuddly people are or are not to new members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Stalker Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Amazing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Yes we also have Pigeons in South Wales too. No you dont, Tom Jones ate them all The simple point being that by answering questions in an honest and professional way you do not risk putting the genuine novice off from asking what might be stupid questions to the more experienced, and perhaps contribute to an accident or gross act of stupidity which will definitely hit the headlines and do nothing for our sport. I can see it now. do i have to state that i wish to do night shooting too ? or is that automatically allowed with the change in conditions? Listen mate, im as new to this as you are, and you have not done nearly enough reading and research to be safe. I have been lucky enough to have a some guys around me willing to show me the ropes, and ive still got a twitchy **** about the first time im out alone. Seriously though, I am speachless he has a ticket. Me too. I cant understand how they can deem somebody all there when they are making comments like this. I know we all start somewhere, but with guns there can only be one place to start, and that is at the safe end. Anyone reading this thread from start to finish who does not reach the same conclusion needs their bumps felt. I thought the FAC process was to ensure people knew a bit about shooting and were safe - it should not be left to internet forums no matter how warm and cuddly people are or are not to new members. thats the point. Amazing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I am more amazed at the fact that you applied for your FAC for a certain type of shooting and the moment you get it you buy to guns that are not really suitable for what you asked for and then straight put in a variation for moderators and field use. Why didn't you put sporting reasons down on your original application? And your expanding ammo allowance will be on top of what you already have so make sure you ask for extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epic Fail Posted May 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) i told the FEO who came to the house that i was looking for land to shoot over and also shoot in a club and there are target rifles in the club that i use i didnt apply for sporting reasons as i did not have the permission at the time of application okay thanks for the advice about the ammounts im having a chat with the club secretary later on today as he has an open ticket and also he helped with my original application also i am going to be shooting the air rifle on the land a lot before taking the .22 on there Edited May 12, 2009 by angelotambini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I still do not get how you can say you have been shooting for two and a half years and yet appear to know absolutely nothing about it ? I dont know what your club secretary said to the FEO but he wasnt OJ simpson's lawyer before becoming club secretary was he ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryantidgwell Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 lol well that was a interesting 20 mins of reading , i have to say i thought it was a wind up at first but hey ho ! going to put in for my FAC soon what is a 22? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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