utectok Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) been working on a permission for 6 months phoned land agent he said ask gamkeeper he said no on the pigeon front but I offered beating in exchage no for pigeons as he has them shot already asked about crows he's ok about that but to phone first phoned went outbwas stopped by farm manger he said nothing to do with gamekeeper ask him and I can shoot pigeons and crows and to watch the barley for him. All good but should I call both gamekeeper and farmer or what? Anyway who's got the right to allow me to shoot? Basicly it's great though another 1500 acres ! Next door to so all you shooters be paitent ittakes time! Appol for the typoxs iPhone is tiny keys etc but u get the idea Edited June 20, 2009 by utectok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 id probably go by what the farm manager says but try not to annoy the game keeper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 I would also take notice of the Farm Manager. Telephone the Gamekeeper to tell him you are going though. How the Gamekeeper can expect you to go shooting just for crows I don't quite understand. If a pigeon flies over the hide, are you expected to ignore it ? It doesn't sound to me as though he is put together right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badshot Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 I agree with babby, don't annoy the keeper or he will one way or another get you off. Who is the shoot run for, the manager, owner or let to a syndicate? It will make a big difference who has the final say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted June 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 it's a massive posh shoot run by the estate which is huge. 12000 birds down I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted June 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 as for pigeons yep I did miss a few today who came over my crow deeks at about 40 mph. The farm manager was annoyed at the gamekeeper for giving permission thing is it's really hard to get in touch with the gamekeeper as he's never home and didn't give out his mobile whereas the farm manager gave me his mobile mind you they both seem really nice guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted June 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 it's a great permission for me so I don't want to get booted off it but I feel a bit in the middle between the both of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 I strongly suggest you go and see the Keeper and tell him what the farm manager said and because you don't want to upset anyone you thought you had better clear it up .That way the keeper will appreciate the fact that you went to see him ,instead of treading on his toes . If there is crop damage . The farm manager should tell the keeper to sort it out first .If he doesn't ,then the farm manager can put someone on to stop the damage. The keeper probably has some guys that do a bit of shooting for him already ? have you asked about that ? If you dont go about it very diplomaticly you could end up being bombed out altogether. At this time of year all of us keepers are busy with the new birds and all the other jobs to do as well . If anyone starts shooting and I don't know about it .I tend to get realy ****** off ! I have to stop what I am doing and go and find out who is shooting then sort that out .After that I have to go back and catch up on what I should have been doing . On my ground there are some areas that are absolute no go areas at certain times of year ,regardless of the damage (If any )and I don't even let the members of the shoot go anywhere near them . So its not just as easy as he said this and the other said that .I'm afraid its always a bit more complicated . There will always be a bit of tension between the farm manager and the keeper.Try not to get stuck in the middle its not a good place to be ! lol No-one can get me on the mobile either !!!!!because I never switch the damn thing on !!! I have a home phone and email ,if that doesnt work they can come to the door . Take your time and work out the politics and you should be fine Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 I'm a land agent. You mentioned it's a tenanted farm? What is the tenant's view on this? The problem is that pigeons are defined as both pests (an agricultural problem) and vermin (a shoot management problem). The occupier of the land shoulders the legal responsibility for control of pests and therefore falls within the remit of the farm manager. Control of vermin (pigeons, corvids, fox etc) comes under the vermin control aspect of shoot management and is therefore the keeper's arena. You need to work out who wields more influence in that particularly grey area of overlap. It is rare to find a farm manager and keeper who get on genuinely well, as Nipper has alluded to above. Do not try to play them off against each other. The keeper will probably wield a lot more influence than the farm manager over the landowner, or the tenant if the game shooting is reserved to the tenant in the tenancy agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 thanks for all the advice it's interesting that there is no clear distinction pver who ' owns' the crows and pigeons. As I say both the keeper and the farmer seem ok but I guess the keeper has the last word as I though it strange that when I turned up with all my gear half wAy accross his silage stubble the farmer didn't tell me to go home as I said Id spoken to the keeper. But like you say I'll probbably go easy on it for now and wait till the barley has got wind blown the ask keeper and farm manager if I can shoot. But should I tell the keeper I am after pigeons? Or just let that one slip? Basicl I'm playing a long game with this one as potentially this could be a great permission for me and since it us on my doorstep but it is also big enough to pacify the father in law as you may remeber he was kicking off and I'd rather buy cartridges than a hushpower! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 You would be wise to play this with a completely straight bat - keep the farm manager and the keeper equally involved and update them both with your movements (assuming you are welcome on the land). At this time of year with the keeper obsessing over his 12,000 poults, I would do whatever he says. The keeper is unlikely to be concerned with you walloping crows after silage is dealt with. On keepered land I have permission over, I rarely speak to the keeper except during the spring. I just send him a text or email whenever I am planning an outing, asking for his nod of approval. He is the landowner's right-hand man, with the farm management team very much second fiddle to the keeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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