Vince Green

Before you go much further with this discussion you really need to get in touch with the Muzzle Loaders Association GB who are the "be all and end all" where this branch of shooting is concerned Google MLAGB

Money opens all doors. You can be shooting by next week if you are prepared to pay. Other advice, join NOBS and go beating. Once the gamekeepers get to know you its easier to get a foot in the door. Plus its a good day out and you get paid into the bargain.

The extreme HV rounds like stingers very rarely give acceptable accuracy.

I don't believe that plastic wads do give better patterns. If you use a heavy shot cup you can get a tigher pattern but its not necessarily better. The quality and eveness of the shot is much more critical. Like I said before, don't get fooled by the flim flam put out by the cartridge sellers. They have their own reasons for wanting to sell you plastic wads.

To be honest I have never noticed any difference. For the cartridge makers plastic wads are much easier to load on their automated machines and cheaper to buy as well. I think deep down thats why they promote plastic wads like they do. To an extent I suspect we are being conned by all the publicity. I like felt wads for game.

Somebody is going to jump on me for saying this but if the practical shotgun shooters are anything like the old practical pistol shooters used to be then be wary. The PP shooters were weird. Acting out their fantasies most of them.

When you applied for your certificate didn't you put the calibre down as .223/5.56mm? Thats what you are supposed to do for this very reason. 5.56mm ammo is all military spec and is a slighty higher pressure than .223 hence the disclaimers. To be honest the cheap military ammo is not much good for anything except plinking and since barrels of these small calibre/high velocity rifles wear out very quickly anyway you don't really want to put loads of shots through them just for the sake of it.

Thanks Rick for that, its a perfect example of how these things get cranked up and it all works against us eventually. Primers and powder are not controlled by any law whatsoever. I could legally send my thirteen year old son out to buy some for me if I was too busy to go myself. My friend who lives in rural Wales buys his mail order because it saves him an 80 mile round trip.

This sort of thing is common because the FEOs are little eager beavers who are always pushing for that little bit more. Trouble is what becomes accepted by custom and practice eventually does become the "law" by any other name. This is what happened with gunsafes. The was no reqirement to keep shotguns in a safe. The laws says "adequate security" but who decides whats adequate?

If its not listed don't be tempted to guess at it. Not being listed is a pretty watertight indication that its not suitable.

You got some N140? Gold dust!

Just a point but one I think is important. In South Ruislip near where I live was a large fishing tackle shop, double shop in fact. People used to come from all over to go there. Last year it closed down, a victim I am told of all the cheaper fishing gear being sold on the internet. Do you really use that much powder that buying it on the internet will save you bundles? If you have a local gunshop you should support it.

Manc is dead right. The question of does an unloaded expanding bullet count as "ammo" is a grey area and different police authorities are interpreting it differently. Similarly, the instructions issued to the dealers in different area differ for the same reasons. Worst case scenario is expanding bullets are treated in every way the same as if you were buying live ammo and you are expected to keep the unloaded bullets in your safe. Quantities as per your ammo allowance. To be honest, I can see absolutely no requirement in law to justify this interpretation but recognise that it seems to be gaining ground in some parts of the country. The same police authorities that do this often require the dealers to see your firearms certificate before he can sell you primers. While I can see the sense in this it is not law and never has been. I have never been asked to show my firearms certificate when buying primers. Now the same practice is creeping in to the buying of powder. Its a form of control by stealth.

You can buy a bit cheaper from Pete Lawman or Kranks but by the time you pay postage there is nothing in it.

Bigthug87 I reload over 1000 rounds a year and have done for more than 20 years. I also know that the savings on paper don't match the reality of actual loading. Sure you can get a press for about £90 but then you need scales £80, a powder trickler £12, a trimmer and so on. Yes you can make good quality ammo but its not guaranteed, you can also make ****. You have to take in all the ammo you use up testing loads etc. Its good fun and I enjoy it BUT if you are doing it purely to save money you will be dissapointed. Also, I can't speak for .222 but that PP .223 ammo from Henry Krank shoots great at 200 yds. Got a 10 shot 3" group about a month back in terrible weather.

Yes reloading is cheaper but how much ammunition do you actually get through? Go out foxing and how many rounds do you fire? three maybe if you are lucky? Plus you have to buy a press, dies, scales, powder, primers, bullets, a trimmer and so on. Do it by all means if you enjoy it but don't kid yourself you are saving money. You can buy PP ammo for £39.60 a hundred.

Best sign for keeping the public out is "ADDER SACTUARY"

Wheel weights are drying up as a source of lead because all the ones now fitted are zinc. Bullet casters are finding it harder to get linotype as well. You can't buy antomony seperately and stir it in because it doesnt mix for some reason.

The basic question you ask regarding cost is that there is not enough price difference to make it worth while. Years ago I used to reload for half the cost of bought cartridges. When I finally gave up they were costing me more to reload than I could buy them for. Reloading is good fun and it adds a whole new dimension to your shooting but if you are looking to save money forget it. Claygame are the place to look for advice etc

There is a difference between "posting" and shipping by courier. You cannot send live ammunition via royal mail. Its not that its illegal its just that their own rules don't allow it.

You want to see those old S&Bs bring down a pigeon! Ah they don't make cartridges like that anymore.

.375 H&H has a muzzle energy of around 4,500 ft lbs. I am under the impression that the big game/classic competitions have been severely curtailed since the new MOD regulations came in. Actually, setting a top limit based on energy is not entirely fair. The purpose of the limit was to ensure any bullet that goes "over" does not travel beyond the fallout zone and is based on a 7.62 target profile bullet. A .375 for example having a larger and less aerodynamic bullet would be unlikely to travel that far anyway. This discrepancy becomes more pronounced as you go towards the larger calibres. A 458 Win can top 5000ft lbs but will lose velocity much quicker than a 7.62.

No you don't need a licence to reload (except a SGC of course) . If you are not sure what to do contact Claygame for advice. Trouble is you won't save any money unless you are loading something special like 3" magnums. S&B are good powerful budget cartridges. Best pigeon load ever in my opinion.

This is not just happening to .17 ammo, all ammo is going up across the board because of exchange rates etc

there must be someone on here with some to pass on but I agree with fister its hardly worth it.