Evilv

I chased this argument before - depressed people don't kill everybody like this guy did. You shouldn't link this to depression. He was a sociopath. He did this because if he wasn't going to be alive, he wasn't leaving those two for other people to enjoy after his death. For the same reason, he destroyed his property and animals. They would have been repossessed and sold, his wife would likley have remarried and his daughter would have made a new life without him. He wasn't having any of that. If he wasn't going to be there, none of them were, and his wife certainly wasn't going to be having other men. Is this the face of a depressed man? This was taken less than a day before the place and everyone in it was burned to the ground. MORE OF ABOVE ARTICLE

This is where I take issue with some people's view of what happened (in s spirit of friendly banter of course). I don't belueve anything 'drove him to it', and I agree with rabbithunter on this. Nobody made him do it and he was not insane. This was the act of a psycopath - that means a person who is not mad, but behaves in a vile and unaccountable way as far as the rest of us are concerned. My take on Foster is that he is so up himself - so narcissistic in other words, that when his business schemes fail and he is about to lose the lifestyle and property that he has, decides that he will have the last laugh as far as the creditors are concerned, and will destroy all there is so that they get nothing. Now this will mean he has to go to jail, so rather than have that, he decides to kill himself, because he just HAS TO HAVE ONE OVER ON THE CREDITORS (remember the judge who took control of his assets said he had behaved without any shred of morality towards the creditors). Then finally, and worst of all, he decides to remove his wife and daughter from the world with him, not out of any protective instinct, but because he can't bear that anyone else should have them when he can't. FOSTER WAS A SWINE OF THE HIGHEST ORDER.

Yes indeed - but there is a precedent: remember the case of the lad whio was shot by his stepfather while out lamping foxes? He and his mate had some teenaged kids with them. They left them at a particular spot and then went off lamping. They misplaced where they were and the man who was later charged with manslaughter, became so disoriented that he shot his stepson in the head with a rifle. No dount the man will be destroyed by guilt, but he was charged and admitted manslaughter. Story here: LINK

I would be surprised if the father isn't charged. His actions were so negligent in leaving a loaded gun with children, that I think he could face a charge of manslaughter. His actions were the grossest kind of negligence when you look at it. Gross negligence amounting to reckless disregard for life leading to a death is all you need to prove for it to become manslaughter.

Ask them to hold it and apply for the fac too. They will charge you £60 for the two. I did exactly that last time I renewed my shotty cert. When the wench came out to see my gun cabinet (I had been keeping my gun at a mates place since I gave up my firearms cert and moved house in 1983) so she needed to see my security. I mentioned that I fancied getting another .22 and she said, 'Well you should have applied for both right now and it would be cheaper. I downloaded the forms, got the referee sorted with the form, did the photos, and took them down to the police headquarters the next day and had the two certs for £60 in 8 days.

It was the Hornady ballistic 17 grn bullet. I was amazed he survived it, but he had. It was about 5mm below the eye and 10 mm to the rear. He wasn't going anywhere or moving much, but he was aware of me when I came up to him. I'm really regretful of my careless identification. There are loads of hares on another of my shoots and in three years I've never shot at one of them. This one was right where I expected the rabbits, not that this is an excuse like. If he'd stood up or moved or not been crouching, I'd have known in a second, but I'm the one at fault - no question.

I mentioned the boys in blue because I wouldn't fancy the legal problem of having a loaded gun in a public place - ie my car, or the street while taking it to the gunsmiths. Anyway - very glad this was resolved without damage or injury.

Once again you reinforce the ignorant idea that any person who has suffered from depression or anxiety is likely to harm people. Let me inform you of something: A very large proportion of people suffer at sometime with depression and or anxiety. Both of these issues are at one end of their range, perfectly normal states. You could say we all have them. Ever been worried about something? Ever felt like not doing much other than sitting about moping? At the minor end, these are anxiety and depression. On the other end of the scale, they can become seriously debilitating conditions. Anxiety in which a person is too worried to go outside, or is constantly and destructively worried, or depression in which a person can't go to work anymore, doesn't get out of bed and finds it impossible to motivate themselves. Sometimes, depression is driven by a lack of serotonin, a neurotransmitter that governs mood, at others, it is a condition which is reactive to life conditions such as bereavement or atrocious workload. In a small proportion of cases, the sufferer may harm themselves and in an absolutely tiny proportion, they may attempt to take loved ones with them. Examples we all have seen are cases where a woman without help jumped off a bridge clutching her seriously handicapped son, drowning them both, or where an elderly man murdered his demented wife and then killed himself. These people are not the schizophrenics who stab strangers, push people onto railway lines and do sudden and atrocious things to people they do not know. By the way, only a tiny proportion of schizophrenics harm others. Depression and anxiety is widespread and common, and most people who have it are mildly affected and get rapidly better - so, why your nonsense about the guy being a menace at the gun club? The reason is you know nowt about the subject. sorry couldnt be bothered to read the rest of that got so far and that you have no idea. ok at one end of the scale you sit and mope about the house no harm done .at the other end you have phycotic thoughts and this is where and often when ,ignorant , the prozac comes in . you of all people should know be the expert on the subject,why would anybody want anti-depressants for having an off day ,its only when the off day turns into an off week then a year then someone really upsets them and hey you have a phsyco loose in a gun club I'll jump on too then. Whilst you've enlightened my evening with some interesting reading (I've enjoyed reading the whole thread) I fail to see how you can't expect a reaction having jumped in and called everyone tossers. If you don't agree with everything said then by all means say so but by insulting people, all of whom from the posts I've read are at worst light hearted fun and in no way intended to be a true reflection of their feeling, then I'm afraid you've lost the battle before you've started, whether you're right or wrong. EDIT - Baaaah. can i just say to all who find this case so amusing, will you be still laughing if it happens to your family, well i certainly hope so ,you shallow bunch of pri***. Take it easy - you can't possibly find anything to object to in what Bagsy wrote. Unless you've been on the angry juice... :blink: Robert Or unless he is unhinged.....

LOL - that's it - tell us all that you have a retard's attention span and then repeat all the old rubbish again.

Once again you reinforce the ignorant idea that any person who has suffered from depression or anxiety is likely to harm people. Let me inform you of something: A very large proportion of people suffer at sometime with depression and or anxiety. Both of these issues are at one end of their range, perfectly normal states. You could say we all have them. Ever been worried about something? Ever felt like not doing much other than sitting about moping? At the minor end, these are anxiety and depression. On the other end of the scale, they can become seriously debilitating conditions; anxiety in which a person is too worried to go outside, or is constantly and destructively worried, or depression in which a person can't go to work anymore, doesn't get out of bed and finds it impossible to motivate themselves. They become a medical matter when they begin to damage the person's social or working life, or even when a perceptive individual realises what is happening and seeks help. This kind of person is probably more aware than the average Joe and turns up himself seeking help. Far from indicating that he is a 'mentalist' it shows he has excellent coping strategies and deals with things before they get out of hand. Sometimes, depression is driven by a lack of serotonin, a neurotransmitter that governs mood, at others, it is a condition which is reactive to life conditions such as bereavement, bullying, or atrocious workload. In a small proportion of cases, the sufferer may harm themselves and in an absolutely tiny proportion, they may attempt to take loved ones with them. Examples we all have seen are cases where a woman without help jumped off a bridge clutching her seriously handicapped son, drowning them both, or where an elderly man murdered his demented wife and then killed himself. These people are not the schizophrenics who stab strangers, push people onto railway lines and do sudden and atrocious things to people they do not know. By the way, only a tiny proportion of schizophrenics harm others. Depression and anxiety is widespread and common, and most people who have it are mildly affected and get rapidly better - so, why your nonsense about the guy being a menace at the gun club? The reason is you know nowt about the subject. If Foster turns out to have murdered his wife Jill and their daughter, it will not be because he suffered from depression. It will be because he was a psychopath - a person whose own self importance and narcissism allows him to decide that HE is so important that when his business debts threatened his lifestyle, he is entitled to kill his family and destroy all his property in case anyone else got their hands on them. He would have decided to kill himself and then decided his wife and daughter were not going to be enjoyed by anyone after him. Being a psychopath is not a mental condition. They are untreatable because they are sane. Their problem is that they are evil and immoral. A judge already said of Foster that he was completely immoral. By the way - the snipe about MY club allowing such members privileges - I'm not in a club, and I have never suffered from either. My interest in the subject is entirely a professional one.

I would never attempt to remove a loaded gun in a case. I think if all else failed, I would call the police and ask for advice. I note the advice just above on solving it. Looks like a working solution, but if it didn't work, I'd call in help or advice from the men in blue.

Thanks - that was a great laugh. So the professional hit team that came to make an example of him started off by shooting all his animals outside the house, giving him and his family the chance to phone the cops and come and intervene..... I don't think so, unless it happened in a plot of a crime comedy show. Sorry totake this scenario of yours as if you meant it. You were obviously joking with us.... Ya had me going there ya rascal.

Well I hope it was more constructive than the public reply you sent him in which you told him people like him were every gun club's nightmare! Every gunclub's nightmare

Quite right Robert - even if you have just about confessed to being a 'beastly' tax inspector!

Why? In my view, everyone is entitled to wonder about what happened and to speculate if they want to. Are you with the thought police maybe? We did. If you'd taken the trouble to read the posts you'd have seen that there are a number of sympathetic comments about the family. You need to calm down and think about what you are posting. The above make you look impulsive and emotionally volatile. These are not good qualities in a firearms user. my thoughts exactly what a bunch of toss*** how would you all like it happening to your family members.there have been at least two possibly three innocent people killed and you all joke about it mmmm very sad Oh shut up man! You were on here yesterday making thoroughly unkind remarks and sweeping statements about people with depression when a guy asked for some advice about his rejected shotgun application. I never saw such unhelpful treatment of a guy as you gave. I was tempted to denounce you as an idiot, but thought it rude. Now I am not so sure... Your judgment is certainly highly suspect. The remark that 'you lot all joke about it,' is so far from reality that I fear you should not be allowed out without a carer to look after you.

Before you do anything I would say you should talk to the local firearms department. They knocked back my mates arrangements because he had fitted the thing up off the floor. They claimed that a burglar could put a jack under the cabinet and jack it off the wall, which if they put a steel plate on the floorboards, they probably could have done. His was about six inches off the floor and they made him put it in the loft on the chimney breast wall. I think the cops are happy to send someone out to advise you, so I would take advantage of that and save yourself possible grief. I think there is a pdf somewhere which contains Home Office Guidelines that they all use now. - Yes - here it is: Home Office Security Guidelines

LOL - I know a man who was nearly destroyed by the IR over money they claimed he owed them and didn't. It wrecked his health and he almost lost his business.

I agree. He will have worked this out over days. It isn't a case of a bloke just flipping and running amok. The only thing that suggests he was at all out of control is the dropping of live rounds about the place, but even then, knowing he was about to commit suicide, he may have been a bit shaky while executing the plan. As for the comment above about the Inland Revenue - he owed them £800,000. They would be acting very fiercely over that much debt. There are few loan sharks that are as ruthless as the IR.

I have an idea that you are right about rabbits colour vison. It is my belief that a lot of people spend a ton of money on cammo gear to shoot get near rabbits. I wear anything I like and can easily stalk them pretty close. I don't even crawl anymore, but tend to stoop down so I look less human (some people say I don't look human anyway). I can walk slowly up to them wearing what I like to within about sixty or so yards usually except on places where they have been heavily persecuted. Getting close to them is much more a matter of the wind direction and my moving slowly along hedge lines rather than walking straight up in the middle of a field. What you wear certainly doesn't have to be green or a broken pattern for sure. Pigeons and crows are a different matter. They are very hard to get near.

Not a mink, but last week I saw a polecat. Very rare animal in these parts, but it ran past me when I was lurking at the edge of a wood, jumped up onto a wall about fifteen metres away, looked at me full in the face for about five seconds and then ran into the wood hunting rabbits. It was exactly marked like the photos of polecats with dark fur and creamy flashes on the muzzle and ears. Lovely animal to see, and since thee are no shooting estates within miles, but a glut of rabbits the like I have never seen, it will do some good and wipe out some conies.

Well - we can only guess at the condition of the bodies after the fire. Remember that they had to wait ages for the place to cool down. There may be only a few bones lying around with large parts gone to dust. A fire like that can generate very high temperatures, and depending on how the debris fell in on the occupants, some corpses may be in much worse condition than others. I'd go on record at the ideas that he would have shot his family first. The moment his wife and daughter realised he was shooting the horses and dogs outside, let alone setting fires, they would have called the emergency services. I think he barricaded the place after dumping the horsebox without wheels, firing the outbuildings and cars and chucking petrol around the house. If it were me, I might take some time to get ready to shoot myself, so I might be worried that people would come in and arrest me once alerted by neighbours of the fires outside. When he was ready, he would have lit the house and shot himself in the head. Anyone who still thinks this was done by gangsters isn't looking at the evidence. What gangster uses a .22 rifle belonging to the victim? Even if they thought he might have used his rifle to hold off the gangsters, how come there are fired and unfired .22 cases strewn all around the grounds?

You'd really want to be sure the guy who did it would be good enough to make a nice job of it, wouldn't you. Imagine giving the old man his gun back with some dodgy scene plastered all over it..... Doesn't bear thinking about does it?

You shape it up and finish the knife. That Damascus Steel looks great doesn't it? I'd bet when finished and polished up it would look great.

Another body has been found at the house. It was discovered on Sunday evening. Sad to say, it will be the girl, I think. This Foster guy was a very bad man. A judge described him as being a perosn without morality in the context of his business failures. It seems he was more right than he knew maybe. LINK

I had a very bad experience the other day with a hare. Disgusted with myself really. I was shooting rabbits on a farm I have only just taken on. Got myself in the middle of a field of stubble about a hundred yards off from a patch where I'd seen a few rabbits the other day. I was leaning up against a round straw bale and waited for the bunnies to come out, the HMR at the ready. Along comes a rabbit on the edge of the hedge. Bang - plop. Another wait and same again. Then I spotted one crouching a wee bit further off. It was roughly where the rabbits had come from, so I sighted him up in the puny 4x32 scope. He was about a hundred and twenty yards off, I shot him in the head and he rolled over into the stubble out of sight. I waited some more and got another rabbit, then went out to pick them all up. This is where it all went bad. The 120 yard one was not a rabbit at all, but was a hare and he wasn't dead. The poor chap was lying there groaning and gurgling with half his head missing. I was very sorry for his suffering and put him down quickly, but it really ruined my day - not as much as his, but it was a salutary lesson in taking better care. It also raises the question of how tough a hare is and whether the HMR is up to the job. The bullet had struck him about 5mm below the eye and about a centimeter behind that. Any rabbit would have been instantly killed by a hit like that, but not this chap. If I was shooting hares again, which I won't be often, I think I would go for a chest shot. Like I said - I am very sorry this happened, mostly because he had a hard ending which I try never to have happen. Maybe there are too many parts of the head that will not bring instant death when hit. I suppose we've all seen some of that with rabbits too. A little misjudgement of the wind and the lethal area is missed - especially easy if the nose is down wind of the target region.