Evilv

Occupier can mean a person with the shooting rights too. I can't remember where I saw that, but I have done. On one of my shoots where there are a lot of small farms together which I have permission on a number of, the farmer said to me - 'That field next door to mine isn't mine, but I am renting it so shoot the rabbits.' He is the occupier I suppose, since he rents the land.

I installed it last night. one thing I like about it is that if you enter a search term in what used to be the URL box, it comes up with a list of search results from your default search engine. no need to have the extra toolbars. That's a great feature. One box to enter either searches or urls. I was using firefox before and quite a few sites wouldn't display properly timesonline.co.uk being only one of many that I use that didn't look right in firefox. One thing that seems to be lacking is a spelling corrector. It underlines typos and spelling errors, but I don't as yet see any way to offer a dictionary of possible corrections which firefox did do rather well.

I had one in .22 Magnum back at the end of the 1970s and early 1980s. I agree, It was devastating. I just bought a .17HMR version about five weeks ago. Amazing, but I have a problem with extraction on this new one. My old one never gave me a moment's trouble. I was out with my 9417 this afternoon in the pouring rain. I shot a pigeon at 110 yards with it and a 150 yard rabbit. I paced out both distances. Had the pigeon for dinner tonight as a starter before my allotment beans, lamb steaks, a bottle of Rioja and pishwari nan from the local tandoori - Hmmm - lovely - especially the pigeon. If I had a spare slot for another ,22 I would be tempted. I don't think £140 is a lot of money so someone might be getting a bargain. When was it made and how much use has it had?

I know quite a few Muslims. They're all perfectly normal people. Your condemnation of Islam is based upon a few religious extremists. None of the Muslims I know wish to convert or murder me I agree with this. I know muslim people who are perfectly nice and moderate, but there are extremists and there are many many more who have sympathy with them. Furthermore there are hundreds of thousands who have made not the slightest attempt to integrate into British society and have done everything possible to import whatever way of life they had before. This is mostly OUR FAULT. It would be natural if no one told you otherwise to try and just do as you did before you came here. It is OUR PATHETIC POLITICIANS who accepted the pyjama clad men and black shrouded women wearing masks, the total unwillingness to learn English and become English, or British, the huge dependency culture that leaves most Pakistani women collecting dole, when everyone knows they had no intention whatever of ever taking a job. My wench is a GP and she sees dozens of these people every day. They mostly don't speak any English, or precious little, they don't work, they do collect the dole, they come in asking for everything free, including prescriptions for calpol rather than just buying it like any of us would, they have made no contribution whatever to this country's well being, they fill up our maternity beds and we are shafted, day in and day out by this group. Now - like I said, there are many decent folks among the community who HAVE INTEGRATED fine, just like my ancestors did here at the end of the nineteenth century, but there are too many who do not - oh - and while I am about it, just why exactly is it that when one of their young people is old enough to get married, they have to marry a cousin in Pakistan, and why is it that they are allowed to marry some goat boy or village girl always who doesn't speak a word of English and can't get a job in the mainstream world when he or she comes - not that many of the women have jobs anyway. Enough - I'm starting to rant like an old ***.

Wow - that's interesting. Thanks. You think the written permission should state that the shooter may be in the company of another? I can see how this works. The farmer in giving you permission to destroy vermin or whatever, does hold you in the position of an 'appointee' or in the terms of the act, a 'servant'. He has after all, asked that you do a job for him on the rabbits. That makes you a 'servant', BUT DOES THE RIFLE HAVE TO BELONG TO THE FARMER? It looks a bit like that. 16 Borrowed rifles on private premises "(1) A person of or over the age of seventeen may, without holding a firearm certificate, borrow a rifle from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the presence either of the occupier or of a servant of the occupier if—"

The trouble is that the only party that campaigns on stuff like this is full of racist lunatics and nazi thugs. The rest just Kowtow to the lie of Multic-culturalism, which regards all cultural values as equal in value - forced marriage, subjection of women, despising British society, violent hatred of other cultures, the elevation of religious fundamentalism above common sense - err no mate, they aren't the equal of western values - not by a long mile. (Do I need to mention support for limb amputations, beheading and stoning to death?)

Having re-read section 1 and section 11 I can only conclude that even the "servants of" are only permitted to use the landowners shotgun not firearm (as refered to by the act). I'm sure something is missing as I know many people who would agree that using a rifle in the presence of the owner is legal. It also raises the question about rifle ranges too. Section 11 states that you do not need a certificate to shoot anything under .23 diameter calibre, what of larger calibres? I know there are exceptions for Cadet Forces and such like things in schools - not that many schools have rifle ranges, but these kind sof situations are covered. I think the best thing would be to ask the police for advice. In the context of the thread's original direction, I strongly advise the guy not to admit to the FLO that he has been shooting someone's .22LR. I think he would be admitting to an offence, and as we know, mistaking the law, or being ignorant of it is not a valid defence. I'd edit your own post there too axe before I report you out of spite for editing out my swearing the other day and leaving other people's identical 'offences' alone. Example

Because this is 'Modern Britain' in train to lefty lunatics who think its is free speech to allow Abu Hamza to rant against the nation and the whole of society for years in public, in full view of the police. It is a shame to our nation that such people are tolerated and even courted by government. The leader of Abu Hamza's mosque in Brighton when he arrived here went to the police about him in the 1980s and said he was a dangerous lunatic and a threat to the peace. Nothing was done! I have no problem with people who come here and try hard to fit in; my own great grandparents arrived here from Italy in 1895 without a word of English or even the ability to sign their names. However - I'll tell you this - they made their own living, had a family, learned English (after a fashion) and were loyal. Their sons and grandsons fought in WW2 and their great great grandsons are in the forces now. Want to be British and have British values? Fine. Want to dress and act and talk like you are still in the hinterland of Pakistan? NOT FINE AT ALL!!!! Don't let me get started on this one. The people of Britain have had a massive trick pulled on them and no one asked their permission to transform the country. I was in London last week for the first time in many years.... I tell you, I was shocked. I felt like a stranger in a foreign land.

Found it: 11 Sports, athletics and other approved activities(1)A person carrying a firearm or ammunition belonging to another person holding a certificate under this Act may, without himself holding such a certificate, have in his possession that firearm or ammunition under instructions from, and for the use of, that other person for sporting purposes only. By virtue of the Act which is hard to digest, I have not found anything yet to suggest that you can use someone elses rifle in their presence. I was looking at this a while ago with a view to letting my youngest son (aged 21) come with me and shoot under supervision. I always make him use the air rifle, but I thought maybe he could with me standing over him and directing him shoot the 22LR. I could find nothing that said it was OK, except for landowners and their servants, so I told him to pump up the airgun and use that. The chances of being caught doing it are obviously next to very remote, but I don't thnik it is legal so I wouldn't do it. I told him I would pay for a firearms certificate for him and that he should apply for one to use my rifles. We'll probably do that as it's only £50 - not a lot to allow you to go shooting with your son really.

Excellent story. YOu should write a website, call it maybe 'A Game Keeper's Diary'. You could set up a blog on google and write a journal of these kinds of tales. In a few months, you could have a great site with thousands of visitors. Then if you register with google adds and have contextual adverts down the side, you know - like guns, fishing tackle, country clothing, you could be getting about $1 a click from the site. One of my sons made one and it does work. I'm serious. I might even do one myself and just make it all up and wait for the cash to roll in.

That's because in spite of your inauspicious name, you are NOT a psychopath. The rest of us just don't understand what makes those guys tick; you know - serial killers, men who torture their sexual partners, and so on. You and I read about their horrible doings and frown in amazement. 'What was he thinking of?' we might ask ourselves. The problem with psychopaths is that they get away with their horrible doings for years because they are often clever. A large proportion of the prison population are psychopathic. They are the unsuccessful ones. Psychopaths often do very well in business as they have strong drive, are ruthless and prepared to take chances. Normal people worry about the consequences and effects on others - not so the psychopath. He doesn't care. Take that successful businessman James Lloyd, the 'Shoe Rapist' that was recently caught when his sister had her DNA taken for a drunk driving offence. The cops put it in the computer and bells started ringing that her family member was the infamous 'Shoe Rapist' of years ago. When they arrested him, he had the shoes of a hundred rape victims hidden in his factory. Shoe Rapist Story

That looks like good advice.

I think thta gun blue forms a kind of controlled corrosion on the raw steel. I'm no expert on this, but I've got a second hand shotgun I bought in 1975 and about thirty years ago, I treated a part of the barrel with a cold bluing treatment. It has a sort of brown tinge to it. Are you talking rough rustiness or a brown shade where the blue is? LINK ON BLUING AND CONTOLED CORROSION

But do you shoot hogs with them and did you know that all the plastic tipped rounds are made on the same production line at CCI?

Good call mate. I've seen them drop where they fall with hmr, but I've also seen them do a somersault and leg it to die slowly somewhere else. I just don't find the HMR reliable enough. 20gn hollow points are the worst culprit for injured animals. There's some fool recommending HMR for 200 pound hogs elsewhere on this forum, unless I have entirely missed the fact that he's being ironic or something - which is possible since I've just wandered back from the pub.

Ok - so what about the day when you get it just a tad wrong then. I'll be frank with you, shooting a pig with such a tiny bullet is the sort of wanton, sick, wrong headed brutality the characters in Deliverance might have got up too when they weren't attempting to mouth rape wots his name - yanow - the one with the'prdy mouth' (John Voight). PS - if perchance you were being ironic up above and mocking the idea of shooting larger animals with HMR, please accept my apologies for missing your humour and for likening you to the hillbillies pictures above prior to their attempt to rape Mr Voight. PPS - having scanned a few of your posts, I see that you are an intelligent man and must indeed have been writing in ironic mode. Please disregard my unwarranted and abusive attempt to liken you to a sexually intemperate hillbilly intent upon male rape and such like monstrous behaviour such as hog shooting with a 17 grain 200 ft pound bullet.

Bob has I'm afraid gone to a better place - the fields and woods where he practices his black arts of foxing.

I am sure you could kill a fox with a bow and arrow, but it wouldn't be very humane. Think about it this way, unless you are superman, there will be occasions when you make an error and miss the ideal target area. If you deny this, well....... think again. Now when you are a bit off with a more powerful gun, the fox is dead anyway. When you do it with the HMR, he will be running away horribly maimed and will escape you only to spend the next several hours or days suffering in torment. Personally, I think of the fox as a sort of bad dog. I like dogs and wouldn't want even a bad one to be in agony for days or hours because I was too cheap to shoot him with the proper sort of gun. You need a centre fire .22 of some sort. .223 seems good and none of the shot foxes will escape wounded. I have found several foxes in woods over the last 30 odd years that have been shot with .22LR and have escaped a good way before they died. I have no way to know if they ran fifty yards and died at once, or lay there for hours or days. All I can say is that I found them in thick cover and that nobody could have shot them where they were found. I expect the shooters thought they'd missed.

It's worth haggling a bit. My gunsmith offered me the Varmint Express at £12.50 a box of 50. I told him that the last ones I bought were £10 a box which was true, and after working out on his calculator the difference between what he paid and what I was offering, he sold me 500 for £100. I haggle everywhere that I can get at a manager who has any authority. Saves a lot of money. Too many Brits get shafted by retailers. Always remember that in the States this ammo is priced dollar for pound. Since there are nearly 1.9 dollars per pound, importers and retailers are living off the fat of the land.

I have only recently started with the HMR caliber, but as I understand it and it has been confirmed with my gunsmith, all the ballistic tipped ammo is made by CCI with hornady bullets. As such, I expect it all works the same. When I bought the gun, I purchased 200 Hornady Varmint Express, fired them off and bough another five hundred. I have so far only fired about 275 rounds. What I have found is that it has devastating effect on rabbits out to 150 yards. After subsonic eley .22LR which works very well indeed at what it is designed for, the Hornady ammo affords the luxury of easy 110 -120 yard shots. Put the cross on the rabbit's front end, squeeze the trigger and it is dead before you can re-acquire the target in your sight. Since all the ammo is made by CCI, I think your issue is do you want the 17 grain ballistic tipped 'exploding' ammo for small varmints, or do you need the hollow point 20 grain for more penetration through heavier bones with controlled expansion for something a wee bit bigger. I had a bad experience with a shot hare the other day that wasn't dead inspite of a reasonable head shot with the Hornady 17 grn. I am prepared to accept the stories about foxes dropping stone dead on the spot, but hell, this hare was well alive with half its head gone. On rimfire central, there are people in America talking about shooting hogs with HMR...... They may have a different attitude to suffering there, that's all I can say.

Psychopathic Personality Disorder maybe (and much more likely)? Your persistence in portraying depression as the cause of family slaughter and stranger harming in the face of evidence to the contrary is more than a little surprising. Maybe you have some kind of defiance disorder. You have after all exhibited at least four of the symptoms below in the last twenty four hours.... check it out yourself.

As SS or Garyb (or anyone who's met me for that matter) will verify I am not the most stealthy of people However if you watch carefully whilst approaching, as you say paying attention to wind etc, as soon as any of them alert STAND STILL! If they twitch, look up, ears up etc you'll be fine if you don't move a muscle. Wait until they go back to feeding and then begin moving again, this way you can get much closer. Any kind of movement at all when they are alerted and they'll bolt. Yes I agree. You need to watch them. When they get up and look, you'd better freeze. At times when I'm ready to shoot and want a rabbit to get up a bit out of the grass so I can get a clear view of where I want to hit them, I make a squeak with my mouth ( a sort of exaggerated kissing action that squeaks). They ALWAYS get right up and sit exactly still. .......... Bang - plop.

Its a bit of a longshot but anyone thought that some ill has befallen Bob, he suddenly dissappeared maybe hospitalised, I dont know but a possibility. Is anyone able to contact him via email or phone? It would clear up the rumours if nothing else. I wish him all the best anyway D2D He may just be sunning himself on the Algarve or something. I can email him. He was kind enough to advise me at length by email on a recent purchase. He knows you lot much better than he knows me though.

hi jim there are big bore guns similar to the career that are upto .45 or .50 calibre that will push out 200 ft/lbs :good: overkill!! john .... and a trajectory like a rainbow. For practical small game / vermin shooting where the target can present itself a a variety of ranges, you need a flat trajectory. Most of us here are trying to hit a target area the size of a rabbit's head. For that with a big bore air rifle, you need either an exact range and a set of hold over tables, or youjust have done with all that mullarchy and buy a 22LR or better still a 17HMR rifle which shoots flat from 20 yards to 120 or more. I can see the interest factor of such a big bore air gun though, but only for shooting on a range where you know exactly what the poi will be. I followed the link to Daystate - interesting rifle and surprising power, but why spend £1085 to get a rifle that works great at 40 ft pounds and not so well at 80? A CZ 425 can have ammo ranging between 100 ft pounds and 191 (CCI stinger .22LR) can be had for well under £400. I paid about £325 for mine 2 years ago and it has a degree of lethality vastly above any air rifle including fac air rifles that I have used or seen operating. No disrespect intended at all, but a thousand pounds is a lot of money and then you need to go out and get some way of charging it up.

A rather charitable conclusion really - especially since the policeman making that announcement on the bbc said they saw a man they believe to be Mr Foster drive the horse box into the gateway, get out and shoot out two of the tyres while buildings burned in the background.