kitchrat

Modern combines, with the chaff cutters don't help though. The lighter chaff covers any grain/seed left, which fell faster (and hit the ground 1st) and pigeons can't/don't scratch, well that's my theory. There is still grain down there, you can see it when it germinates later but no pigeons seem to have been attracted right after harvest. Comments please! Look for fields that have been bailed? This summer will be my 1st harvest season in the UK for some time but I don't have too much hope of many good bags.

So it's you shooting all my pigeons! I'm down the road near Braintree. I've had drilled beans, peas and barley to cover lately, the pigeons have found the fields OK but with no commitment. It's like shooting over winter rape. I only have to pull up in my truck or get out and they are gone, to only dribble back in ultra-cautious mode. Basically, they are not hungry but can top-up when they feel good and safe, taking no big risks. Same as on the rape, they have a (good) plan. We have a good supply of local woods and hedges with nice trees. Once they all leave, eventually, after 20+ minutes, a lead bird or two return but won't go on the crop directly, they sit in a wood or tree and watch. Slowly, over the next 20-30 minutes, others join them. When there are about 200+, another brave lead bird drops onto the crop. If all is well, the others flood down and start to gorge. This is usually when the farmer is passing and has a fit! If the initial bird chooses a tree near you (out of the dozens on offer), you can shoot him but the whole process goes back to square one. If the brave (greedy) bird hits the crop near you or looks at your decoys you may get 1 or even 2 but the whole game resets. Meantime, you could get a lone "Nobby-No-Mates" to drop straight in, usually when you are looking the other way! At the end, you have set all your stuff out, sat there for several hours and shot 7 or 8 birds and missed some too. Heartbreaking stuff, sob, sob! Of course, if you don't go out, they slowly build up and everyone in Essex sees them and later tells you "Oh you should have been of XYZ field, it was BLUE with them". Same problem round here but it's worse when you identify a group of doves, then the last one turns out to be a woodie but you are too late to nail him. Or, because the sun is in your eyes, you wait too long to get a +ve ID, then miss at 10 yds range as he swirls away when he spots you raise the gun as he is almost in the hide with you! HATE IT!! Lucky *****!

That's exactly the problem, the farmers want them gone, the guys with the equipment/experience don't want to shoot them and be left with a load of venison they can't get anything for. Having to gut it, drag it home etc is much the same as shooting a 100 pigeons, except the stalker, for all his time and effort gets one shot, then the work begins.

Yes you have list when you shot them, where you shot them, how you cooled them, how they were stored, at what temperature etc etc. Just to make it almost impossible. However, the stalking boys do all this and still get peanuts for their venison, if anything.

Many thanks, most impressive even to get to 35feet! Cheers

That clip is from Shooting Times. I struggle to get 20p for a pigeon, they (admittedly a "posh" pub) got £40 for the meat! Round here, Fallow Deer are becoming a plague, farmers want them shot but the guys with all the gear and training etc can hardly get more than a few £ for all the effort, so don't bother. Yet venison is way more expensive than many meats in the supermarket or diner. Lots of good food goes to waste because of "Rip Off Britain". NB Show me a butcher selling pigeons for £3 and I'm round there to do a deal!

Very interested in your lofting scheme. I too have wasted hours with the hooky things, especially trying to get them down again. How long a pole are you using? I assume you are putting them up only in medium-sized trees, say 30 ft trees in a hedge of lower bushes? A wide angle piccy would be much appreciated! I would love to be able to use lofted decoys roost shooting, but the trees in "my" wood are huge beech, maybe 80 or 90 feet high. As the wood is over 20 acres, pigeons don't often choose the come in near me, then they all flood towards those that land elsewhere. Once, I was lucky enough to drop a dead bird in plain view on top of a Scots Pine. Worked a treat. Cheers

I know I posted about this some 10 years ago, but it bears a reminder. This is a 1.2aH battery, easy to carry, runs a flapper all day. However, the terminals can just short across the base of a (live) 12 bore cartridge. So what I hear you say but it happened to me when I was doing 70mph in the middle lane of a 3-lane road. And the result? Full detonation of the cartridge and lead shot rattling round in the cab of my truck! Very scary! With no barrel to contain the blast, little damage was done other to a cardboard box and my hearing! However, if it happened in a person's pocket?? Cheers!

I shot a scrawny young bird this week, no neck ring, very lightweight. Surely it was a late squab from last year, not a 2024 model?

Good God, that's brilliant! I have loads of rape to shoot over, some of which is being hit by large numbers but it's usually a 1 or 2 shot wonder and the flocks clear off, or just sit in the trees for 45 minutes. So you end up with a very occasional attack by 100+ birds (shoot 1 , scare 99) or an occasional "Nobby-No-Mates". Double figures takes all day, let alone 100+!

Talking of squirrels..... I was recently going roost shooting in a 6-acre wood but the farmer advised me that a couple of chaps were going to be after squirrels. Not good but they are decent guys and we decided that they would start at one end of the wood, where I wanted to be, and then if they made a noise down the other end it could even help me. I soon found them a nice drey they could reach with their poles and 4 of the grey tree munchers were sorted. The boys moved away and from time to time I heard a few shots. I managed to fill a game carrier with pigeons and later heard that they had accounted for 13 squirrels, in the one small wood! It is quite isolated from any other wood, even well away from any decent hedge, so I was quite amazed.

"Conditions: Very mild, overcast and light, almost imperceptible easterly winds." You should worry!! It was p*** ing down here, I've only just dried out, hence the late reply! There are some nice conifers in the wood, just right for them to shelter under. So that's where I waited. But NO, any that did eventually come into land went to the middle of the wood on the top branches of huge beech trees, in the full deluge. They were even cooing at me! As to roost shooting getting harder, much of it is, I think, down to less shooters going out and moving them about. especially in bad weather. The 6-Nations Rugby has a lot to answer for. I say, "this is why God invented the VCR", but to no avail! Of course the birds are also getting pretty smart and don't seem to dive straight in any more, they overfly the wood 1st and only commit when a brave (or stupid) bird has landed. Then they flood in. If you shoot him, all gone again.One year I hit a high bird which became lodged on the top of a fir tree, in full view. Best night I've had, they just came in. I shot 25+. What we need is a 120-foot+ tower you can easily move in the wood and put a few lofted decoys up there at the top of the trees. (Dream on!) Of course, us Old Uns, can't swing so fast so birds we used to be able to knock down have been and gone. (excuse number 4543) Still good fun trying though! It's also noticeable how they learn, I had a really exciting evening Xmas eve, very windy, they just kept coming round and getting shot at. Hit about 12 at a ratio of about 1:4, Old Man stiff and slow syndrome! Since then, it's been all this overflying stuff, even though I laid off the wood unt3rd Feb.

After a bit of Google time, they do community roost : Roosting Summaries (friendsofredkites.org.uk)

Ha Ha, very good!! I thought Essex birds were supposed to be easy?

Yes, that's rape shooting. Trouble is, I'm getting the same problem on some very popular (until I turn up!) freshly drilled bean fields. A couple of days until they have found it and cot comfortable, I turn up and it's the same story Not that bothered "Thanks but no thanks", no panic or flaring away, half chances only for a while, then that dries up too. Frustrating or what!!

I fully agree with your point 2, they just "flock-string" wherever they know is safe. As to point 1, over the 3 fields of osr, there are about 4 "favourite" places. Once you set up on one of them and shoot at something, the other three locations become more popular, despite the fact that there is a gas gun up the other end. The crows and rook weren't seeing me. The pigeons just want to see a load of their mates there already. If the location is empty of pigeons, they go and sit a tree to watch and watch and watch. Eventually, one comes for a look. If you shoot him, they all go. If you don't, he swoops over the decoys and usually doesn't like what he sees for some reason. Watching from a distance, they NEVER drop straight onto a crop, unless there are loads there already. It's sit in the trees etc etc until one braves it, then they all flood down too. As to the road, no, it's a public road, not very busy but quite fast, so vehicles are gone in a flash, It is a very rural area so hopefully, no antis to cause trouble, but I take your point. I was there because the pigeons appeared to want to be there. (until I fired a shot). All perfectly legal but we are at risk from antis wherever you go. Recently, I was on the edge of a field, no footpath within half a mile and a bloke turns up. I point out that I am pigeon shooting and ask if he thinks he is on a footpath. "No idea" is his reply, "but I've walked this way for 9 years" . I point out that it doesn't make it a footpath and get the reply "So what are you going to do about it?". Of course I say "Nothing, enjoy your walk" and he stalks off. Joe Public....

Rope bangers are like the gas guns they all use, pigeons know the difference and they have limited effect. All jump off into nearby trees, then flood back down 15 mins later.

People have raised a variety of points. Believe me, I have tried most of them! Fewer decs, the different types sometimes in different areas so as not to mix them, sometimes mixed, usually no silly socks unless windy, no magnet, flapper, over-sized shell decs, floaters, the results are usually very similar. Silly socks look silly when it's not windy. I don't think they were seeing me, even rooks and crows were drifting right overhead. I'm surprised to see respected shooters like JDog say "I always use a rotary on rape, standing corn and bean stubble and never on drillings.", using words like always and never. I think in pigeon shooting there are NO hard and fast rules, except "there are no rules"! Finally, the road is/was no problem, the pigeons liked that side of the field because of some nice trees at hang out in and a little valley they like to drift along. The crop is quite damaged just there. Of course, once I shoot a few times, the other side of the field looks greener, as usual with winter rape. Then, once a few dozen get settled, it soon becomes 100. Shots don't always keep them off. Then the farmer says "you're in the wrong place"!!

Yes, I've thought about less but am always up against flocks of 100+ real birds pulling newcomers in, so feel more is better. Of course real birds are better but usually I have to carry across muddy fields. Also, I like to get my victims into the food chain ASAP. Yes, that's a road!

Do red kites “dormitory roost”? In a wood yesterday evening doing a bit of mid-week roost shooting with the farmer. Found a corner with lots of pigeon **** and waited. A fair number came in, not so high as over my Saturday wood so I managed to knock 9 down. As it was getting very dusk, a red kite was soaring over the same corner of the wood, almost hovering on the wind. Then 2, 3, 4, until we could count 13 in the air, with more coming (but they could have been the same ones doing a lap of honour!). Whilst we had no trouble identifying them and not shooting, it was off putting and we quit early as they were coming in to land, presumably to roost. Left them in peace. Quite strange, kites wouldn't kill pigeons but odd to think of them sharing the same corner of the wood, in such numbers. Today, on the beans, it was back to the old doves, using them as cover, I'm never sure if I should shoot or not, until it's too late. Must be a dozen pigeons still alive that shouldn't be. That's my excuse anyway. *****y Doves!!

Update on my research; Today I am on well-chewed rape, it's dead windy so I don't use the magnet as on the downwind leg the dead bird looks so stupid, tail all blown up etc.. I have the flocked shells, a flapper, a floater and some Silly Socks to add a bit of movement in the wind. All looks OK? However, the returning pigeons give me the same old "Yes I was interested , thanks but no thanks" and drift away early. I don't think they could see my hide, crows were going overhead ok... So what's going wrong? Can't believe they are seeing the peg holes in the decoys!!?? Moved onto another bean field, a bit better there, once I had a dozen real birds as decoys but they still were not suicidal! Cheers, Kitchrat

JDog's recent post sparked some debate on the benefit or not of magnets. Both opinions have merit but no "rules" of pigeon shooting are cut and dried. Anyway, I was in a position to do some research. Two fields of newly drilled beans, pigeons all over them on Friday, fairly busy road to farm development between them, nice woods near one end. Not much cover. I set up on Saturday in a ditch mid-point down one side of the field with the woods, set down so that only less than the top couple of feet of my hide was visible, gentle wind behind, woods to my right and front (other side of field). Shots should keep them moving on both fields. Set up a magnet with real birds and 25 half shell, flocked plastics. I'm there before the pigeons and when they do come, in groups of 10's or 20's, they show interest in my pattern but lack commitment and mainly drift away at 50 or 60 yards out. Not flaring away, just, "Thanks but no thanks". (Some come the "wrong way ",ie downwind from behind, from distant woods) Managed to bag a couple of less wary birds and add a second magnet. No change. Took one magnet in, used the birds on a flapper and a floater. No change. Too many doves in flocks of 5, 10 and 12 about, they decoy well, of course, and sometimes bring in "embedded" woodies, who decoy well but by the time you have confirmed their identity, they can also see you raise the gun and flare away. Makes you uncertain of "to shoot or not to shoot." Got a couple more and put them out, heads up on cocktail sticks. No change. Slowly added a few more real birds and reduced the plastics. No change, still drifting away. Reduced the hide to next to nothing, almost lying down in the muddy ditch water. No change. Stopped the magnet, took one arm off to make the other arm into a floater, and at last, behaviour changed!! They showed NO interest in my field and went to the other field, 100's flooding in from a distance. A shot lifted them but they just moved down to the far end. Walked them off and restarted my magnet and we are back to square one, looking then drifting away but the number of visits was dwindling. I have to pack up to go roosting and as I do so, they pour back to the other field. I didn't shoot well on all the half chances as I got wound up. Finished with 35 (maybe 80 shots?) but it should have been 50+, if they had decoyed well it was a 100+ day. Anyway, the magnet did get me a lot of difficult, half chance shooting, which was very frustrating but a lot less frustrating than no shooting at all and watching them pour onto the other field, which would have happened without it. I'm not sure, but half suspect, that most of the pigeons know what a magnet is and steer away in good time. The roosting was also frustrating, lots of birds over the wood but almost all too high or in the wrong place Shot 5 more. The next two farms are now drilling beans,oats and wheat, so I guess there will be too many options for the pigeons. Two other farmers are complaining about flocks on their OSR but it's always here today, gone tomorrow. Frustrating times!! Cheers!

Hopefully they will start to pair up and the mega-flocks will disintegrate. It's been driving me nuts, just show up and they are gone elsewhere all day, not even a 1-shot wonder. You can get that by getting there 1st, ie 7.30am, shoot at the 1st scout and that's all she wrote. If you don't go out, they flood onto the crop and the farmer goes nuts. Heads I lose, tails, I lose!!

Just read Marsh Man's comments and he is dead right. You need to let them get into a pattern, which you can predict. What you are doing is a good job at moving them about but the crop is still getting eaten! Let them settle down, then you might be able to put them in the freezer, when they will eat no more! Good luck.

Typical Essex Birds behaviour when they are not that hungry. I'm near Braintree and you describe the situation well. Answers to your questions, to the best of my ability: 1) flags have very little effect after the 1st day or two, it just makes the pigeons walk round them. A huge kite does work better but you need good wind. For 300 acres over 7 fields you would need several and would spend more time servicing them than shooting! 2) a rotary is almost a must but will not be your savoir! It will attract attention them and they will come and have a look but at the moment they are not convinced by my decoys and will not commit. Not flaring away as if they were scared, just "Thanks but no thanks". What does attract them is seeing 100's of pigeons feeding or flock-stringing onto a field. Otherwise they sit in the trees as you describe. Even then, you need to be in the right place, where they are at least semi-expecting to feed. 3) They are not committed enough yet but with this cold snap things are starting to change, they are coming back sooner and hitting the crop quicker. 4) Yes, several guns might help, if they are hungry enough to want to come back (ready to assist if you are near Braintree!!). Rape is not (in my opinion) their food of choice, if other stuff is available and they are not hungry, they just have a snack to top-up or because others are feeding and they are greedy. Often, the flock hits a field but all leave on their own accord, after 10-15 minutes, never to return. However, I did get a good bag (about 100) on a rape field back in November, but they were actually feeding on the buck wheat which had been sown as a companion crop. They weren't hungry, but piled in after the buck wheat anyway. No rape in their crops. MY Question: What decoys are you using? My rotary and floater with real birds on, plus 18 flocked, half-shell decoys are not working, yet. Real birds always work better but I cannot face dragging 20 dead birds, plus magnet, battery, hide, decoys ammo etc across the crop. Truck transport is usually a big no-no, not like the blokes you see on TV, who can drive there with all the stuff etc. I hope this helps, Cheers, Kitchrat