kitchrat

Well done that man for having the courage to answer a call for help, instead of folding up like a wet paper bag, as many are. The more we roll over and play dead on the instructions of the Urban Majority, the sooner all will be lost. Like BASC etc calling for a ban on lead, based on little or no hard evidence that lead, away from wetlands, does any harm. There is ZERO risk to self or others from driving to your own hide. The story that you may get hurt and overwhelm the NHS is totally fatuous when we are allowed to cycle all over the place, no risk there.... Still, we get Green Credentials and Greta the Great is happy. Rant over!!

Fully agree, getting my once a day exercise, sit in a ditch for a rest, shoot a few pigeons to protect the food supply of the nation and feed myself, thereby not having to go to the shops - win win win

Actually, you are quite right, I had included some that were shot over mashed maize AND rounded up by 7. Truly sorry for the mistake, hardly warrants your attack. Why are you so keen to attack my theory/question about the spray, which might be completely wrong ? Do you sell it? Surely, if it pigeon-proofed the field that would be a sales point! Discuss, don't attack! Lighten up!!

Thanks for this JD. Please see a reply to my update on the spray question, before I quit Pigeon Forum... And yes, they do seem very good at finding beans, considering they can't/don't scratch for them. Cheers and thanks for the entertainment over the years.....

Oh Heck, I'm in trouble!! I wasn't the only one shooting the beans, we all had good bags. I'm only asking about the spray, there are still no birds on the new beans, I just DO'NT know. SO SORRY if I got it wrong. If the point of this forum is to slag people off, then I'll stop posting, only trying to entertain in these troubled times.

Well done team! My question, had the drilled beans had this pre-emergence spray? I don't see any wheel marks.... The drill leaves no tracks so new tramlines on top means spray.

500 acres of newly drilled beans (not too well drilled) on a farm the pigeons usually love, sprayed the same day as explained in earlier posting - about 50 pigeons in total yesterday and 20 today. No new local drillings to pull them away. Spoke to my farmer pal Matt, with whom I had shot about 350 over 3 fields of drilled beans a few weeks ago. These fields had not been sprayed because it was too wet and the pigeons loved it. Now tell me it doesn't make a difference!!!

I said nasty because last year a farmer suspended my permission for a few days because his contractor was going to be using it and "nasty" was his phrase. I know nothing! The pigeons (which were all over the fields) never came back either....

I have a farm perm that is going to put in 1000 acres of beans and peas! He started on the beans yesterday, with half the farm machinery in Essex going full blast. Today, just as the pigeons are starting to find it, he and his gang are spraying that nasty yellow pre-emergence spray for black grass. I have in the past seen large flocks of pigeons disappear, never to return, from fields they were flooding onto, just as this spray goes on. Any experience anyone?

In his defence, we are told that birds rely on ultra-violet more than we do and blue is more visible under UV, as is white, hence the importance of neck rings and wing bars. (Remember looking at girl's underwear under UV at discos in the 70's??)

Thanks for the support Jim! I've been thinking (a mistake I know) and put these missed shots down to pellet density. At 45 yds a typical pattern for half choke is said to be about a 50-inch circle. That is nearly 2000 squ inches. If the back view of a pigeon is a 4 inch circle (and that's generous!) that's about 12.5 squ inches. So the pigeon only catches about one 160th of the load ie about 1 pellet, less any that hit the odd branch en route. At that range I use No 4 shot (a few less pellets but 36gm) so that any that do hit the target do maximum damage. However, it seems to be a bit of a lottery, so should we do it? Pest control, I say "Yes" but are shots at "70 yard" pheasants really "sporting" or just a game of chance??? OK, you can use full choke but at 70 yds the typical pattern for full choke is said to be a 70-inch circle or 3800 squ inches!! Admittedly a pheasant is much larger than a pigeon but the proportions remain about the same, especially if it's going away. BASC advise 4-5 pellets in a bird to almost ensure a clean kill. It bears thinking about?? To get 5 pellets into the target at 70 yds (if you started with 160 pellets, 1 1/4 oz No 4,) the bird would need to be about 120 squ inches, ie about a 1-foot circle. A dinner plate is 10 inches and could expect 3 1/4 pellets on average. If the kill zone of a pheasant is 9in x 5 in (generous) he could expect just under 2 pellets. Now, all these shooting organisations say we should give up lead shot........... Sorry, my mind was wandering into new subjects! All the rangy birds I shot Saturday had only 1 or 2 pellets in them, so they were the lucky ones for me (good eating) but I probably didn't miss the other dozen, just pricked them??!! (only joking, I hope) The crops contained wheat, maize, rape and an assortment of berries and stuff I couldn't identify. No beans at all, which was 100% last week. The chap sharing my wood Saturday was using 30gm No 6 shot and managed to wound (it seems I can't say p***k) one bird enough for his dog to chase across the field.

Adzyvilla has beaten me to it again, I went down the pub instead of to the keyboard! Still, I hope it's worth writing/reading: My scouting showed that the drilled beans fields had dried up, not 1 bird there compared to the 1000's last week, so I was not optimistic. Arriving at the wood at 2.00pm again, the departure of 2 birds instead of 500 confirmed my fears. The wood I can shoot is 21 acres of huge trees. Although it's a good roosting wood, the chance of birds coming to land where you can reach them is slim, so unless there are loads about (like last week) you are in trouble. I have noticed that large groups of birds tend to circle before plumping into the middle of the wood, whilst small groups of 1-5 tend to go straight in, especially later in the evening. Of course, nothing attracts pigeons like a group of pigeons. My normal plan is to wait until a group land in the middle of the wood , then work round to be downwind of them and intercept the next lot going to join them. I don't usually try to stalk birds as it's usually non-productive and frustrating but as I'm early and I expect few birds, it's the only game in town. So, I sneak about a bit until I see a single bird 150 yds away, up wind so his back is to me. I flit from tree to tree, Indian style. (Sorry can't say that, not PC). I flit from tree to tree, First Nations style, getting into a clump of laurel bushes/trees until I'm only about 45 yds away from my intended victim. A 36gm, #4 Black Gold goes into the 1/2 choke barrel, bead on the bird, bang, he flies away seemingly untouched! DAMM, you know it doesn't often work!, especially shooting from behind them but otherwise they see you. So I go back to my window of last week and wait. A long pause...…. At last a good group show up but from the wrong direction and catch me out but circle round and land in the middle but not far away. I wait for more to join them. A long pause...… I get frustrated and resort to plan B, First Nation style to 45-50 yds, 36gm #4, bang, stone dead bird!! No blank tonight!! Back to the window, A long pause..... At last another group show up but from the wrong direction again, not in my "wheelhouse" but I shoot at one anyway, no result. At least I know where they are coming from so move to a new window, where a gap in the trees offers a temping way in for small groups to land straight in, when coming from today's approach direction. I pretend to be a bramble bush. A long pause...…A long pause...…A long pause...…A long pause...… After these 4 pauses I am rewarded by a sight of 4 paws as a badger pops out of a sett about 10 yds away and trundles off!! Makes my day!! My luck has changed! Soon after badger sighting, lone bird (Nobby No-mates) dives straight into the top of a larch tree. I see him at the last second and nail him as his landing gear comes out. He doesn't drop but is lodged in the top of the tree. Initially I'm cursing but soon a reasonable number of Nobbys are drifting into my window. I'm sure Dead Nobby was pulling them. I reckon 50% of the (few) birds coming to the 21-acre wood come near my window.They are still not simple but I'm back in the game. Finish with a dozen, including 2 (yes 2!) lodged in trees. A good end to 2020 roosting, the last Saturday Feb 29th I'll be shooting as the next one isn't for 28 years....

Just taken the beans out of one of my roosting victims who didn't burst on impact. It was a randomly selected bird as I had sold most of them already. It wasn't as packed as I have seen but it contained over 2oz of beans. Now if 1000 birds were filling up each day on the 2 large fields near me, (and I'm sure there were at least that many) that's about 125lbs/day or 875lbs/week or a ton in every 18 days. I know they get cleaned up before that but it's a lot of beans going AWOL! It's our duty to shoot them!

Perhaps the electronic device should be a pacemaker!! I don't have a fancy phone, and then I would need my glasses on to type.... No, maybe not! Didn't shoot well today, over some played-out mashed maize, the wind was playing me up (Not me personally!) Plus I missed the few sitters I did have. Still, another 30 in the bag.

Apologies to adzyvilla, who beat me to roost-report this week but I hope my antics will entertain! Had a great roost shoot last night, 1000's had been feeding on nearby fields, newly drilled with beans. I have permission to shoot in a very large wood, of huge beech, scots pine and oak trees, which I estimate are 40+ yards high. I too put about 500 birds out on arrival, at 1.55 (I'm keen!) The birds swirl about well over trees in the very high winds, coming from all directions (usually the one behind you! but mainly from the feeding grounds.) The trees are making ominous creaking noises, beech has a reputation for snapping suddenly.. My plan was to find a decent opening in the trees, which have quite dense upper branches, especially the pine with its needles which make a good roost in high winds. You can get SOME idea of approaching birds through the lower branches when they are well away, so the excitement mounts. They are VERY aware of the situation and will flare away in a split second if they see you. So I am concealed in the undergrowth as best I can, with my gillie suit jacket and facemask on, gun mounted ready when I see them approaching in the near distance. They burst into my "window", for a second or two. I only shoot at stuff which is right in my wheelhouse as there is not enough time to judge what is happening and make large adjustments on anything else. There are plenty of birds about, speculative shots just scares them more and wastes ammo - a wild young boy could have had 200 shots! Plus my worn out old body doesn't move that fast anymore. This is really tricky stuff!! I use 34gm #5 shot in the 1/4 choke and 36gm #4 in the 1/2 choke barrel for the higher stuff. This works quite well, I down 25 birds for about 50 shots. They are so high that when you nail one, it hits the ground so hard its crop often bursts open, there should be a good crop of beans in the wood this year! Brilliant evening! When will be the next time we have a 5-Saturday February?? Answers on a postcard please!! Cheers, Kitchrat

Given that a shotgun is a fairly powerful weapon, it doesn't REALLY matter (usually) what ammo you are using, it's all in the head that matters. Once, many moons ago, a few of us were shooting suicidal pigeons over drilled beans and were running out of ammo, so one guy was sent to the local hardware shop. All they had in stock was skeet stuff, 1oz of number 9 shot. He had to buy it and we noticed no difference because the birds were suicidal - at 25 yards anything will do. That said, I wouldn't dream of taking No 9 shot out normally, especially in these days of magnet aware birds. Usually I plump for 30oz No 6 if they are playing the game, changing to 32 gm No 5 if they are not. Makes no real difference except inside my head. Tonight I will be "roosting" in a wood with 40yd-high trees and will start with 34gm 5's (extreme pigeon) but may change to 36gm No4 if they are high above the tops. I know it's totally unnecessary but if my head is happy I shoot well. The same can be said about choke, when decoying I usually use Improved cylinder and 1/4 chokes, when roosting 1/4 and 1/2. I have the unusual tool of a multi -choke, double trigger o/u Beretta, so with the heavier load in the tighter barrel I can kid myself into believing I have the right choke and ammo for almost any situation, at the flick of a finger. (I can't get on with the selector switch on a Browning for example, too much going on, I forget which is which and it won't change with the safety switch in the fire position, which is where it would be as the incoming bird swirls away at 45 yards)

In the absence of anything, went back to the bean field again today. They were building up yesterday, so what the heck, at least it will keep the farmer happy. I knew I would have to move my hide location and that they would be jumpy after Tuesday's hammering. So Matt took me to a deep ditch (then had to leave) and I built a tiny hide, with roof in the wet (4in water) bottom. With the roof I was well out of sight but could pop up when the time came, like putting on a poncho. Good backdrop from the field behind. The hide gave me grief all day, snagged stuff, fell in and made reloading in hurry impossible but I was well hidden!! At 1st, I was in the driving seat,100% hidden, birds decoying well. There was no wind early on, so I got caught out a few times when they came from behind and saw me get up but with no wind they could do little in the way of taking evasive action in time. Ist little group, L&R (well U&O), the 1st box of No 6's put 22 in the decoy pattern!! Then the tide ebbed a bit. As the sun rose, it shone into my prison and they could see me better. The wind got up, which was great as they moved about more but evasive action became much more effective. The larger flocks would not decoy well, small groups did at 1st but later on got very fussy, any dead bird in a funny position and ….gone! I lost count of how many times I climbed out of the ditch to clean up. So the shots got more speculative and the hit ratio went down. Plugged away and picked up 75 for 120 shots Good ratio and another great day's sport!! Cheers, The Old Seadog Kitchrat

Yes, the tide may have come it but at least I filled my boots (also there was water in the ditch!) They are back today so might tray again tomorrow.....

Do you think the lofted ones helped? I've been up the same road with 25 footers, a nightmare to position/retrieve and look stupid in full-sized trees. I too have made a spreader but never tried it out..

My shooting this winter has been sad - too many game shoots and not much OSR (flea beetle). One farm has a large block of OSR, gas guns all around, long hike to get to the middle. 1000's there but they won't decoy, they just "Flock-string" from one place to another. Gas gun goes off, fly to one wood or another, then "Flock-string" to a new place. If you guess where they will go next you can get a shot from behind a hedge before they change the string-line. If you get 10 all day, that's good work. One other farm has a small block of OSR, gas guns all around, which soon send them off. Farmer patrols on a quad, shooting at them. However, before the guns start, birds would land in large numbers in a nice copse, then drop on the crop for breakfast. If I'm in the copse I can get an hours "roost shooting" at dawn and get a few, once or twice a week. Nice the meet the farmer coming out as I walk off with a handful. Great PR! However, they do wise up and bags get smaller and harder. BUT, on Monday, only a few single birds show up at my copse, no flocks even come close. (still got 4) Where have they gone? Drive all around and check a nearby couple of fields, recently drilled with beans. I'd seen a few there over the weekend but now they are building up. Went in to see the farmer's son, Matt, and we set yesterday as the day to hit them. It's a long carry to the best spot but Matt will give me and the gear a lift out on the quad at 7.00am, go in for breakfast, then join me in the hide. I set up, GALE force wind on back, but soon-to-rise sun in face. Wind tries to destroy hide, blows birds off magnet. Set up a magnet, 2 floaters, flapper plus 8 dead birds on cocktail sticks. They start coming from the surrounding woods right away but the wind keeps then so low (2-4 feet off the ground) that the backdrop is the woods and in the half-light they are really hard to even spot, let alone shoot. I do badly, my normal average of 1.5 or 2 to 1 is hammered! Then the sun clears the wood and it gets worse. Sunglasses make it too dark, can't see anything at all. I move to my right and hide behind a tree, the light gets a better angle but they can see me, one movement of a wing and they are gone! Matt comes back (brings me a coffee - fine Lad!) and we both struggle as we take it in turns to shoot, especially Matt, who is learning. Still, he doesn't get downhearted and is pleased when he does hit the odd bird. They are very tricky, very cautious and quick to turn away. (Also, there are stock doves mixed in, very hard to ID then in the difficult light.) We change the pattern, take things in, put things out, no change. At last the pendulum swings a bit in our favour as the sun moves round and get higher, we can ID the incomers by their wing bars, see them better without being dazzled and the hit ratio improves. I even have a few L&Rs. Still very tricky but what sport!! At the end, we pick 90, God knows how many shots, but an epic day. More drillings and mashed maize to look forward to!! Cheers, Kitchrat

I love the Pigeon Extreme for roost shooting too, very high and fairly thick trees in my wood make it very tricky. I dream of getting 27!! We had no wind last Saturday, this week we are forecast gales (plus rain) 28 here I come??? Dream on!!

I once shot a magpie on an organised goose shoot in Canada. The dog (Starsky) ran out, grabbed it, spat it out and a "withering look" has nothing on what I got. He would not look at me for the rest of the day...

Britain leaves the EU and the game season ends! The future looks bright!!!!

I've been watching some beet fields getting lifted on my way to beating duties. So far, no interest from pigeons, they prefer the nearby OSR. Beet is fairly new to this area, maybe they don't know it's nice to eat??

For the 1st time, sugar beet is going to be grown on one of my permissions. Should I become excited? If so, at what stage of the growing cycle? Will they go for it when drilled. sprouting, harvested or not at all?? I have no idea on what to hope for, except there was some last year on the next farm, as I see chunks of beet on the surface after harvest, with no interest being shown. I hadn't spotted it at drilling time so don't know if it was attacked then. Should I buy a few flats of ammo??? Cheers, Kitchrat