kitchrat

Should we shoot foxes (with landowners permission and out of sight of The Public of course) if we get the chance? I see from GL40 that we can shoot jays and maypies to protect songbirds etc I also see that the RSPB are saying that putting down lots of gamebirds helps support a larger fox population than normal, which impacts on songbirds and ground-nesting birds in general. Of course, this ignores the efforts of gamekeepers to control the fox population, which seem to be very effective. I rarely see a fox when beating game covers. The RSPB admit to shooting 100's: So, should we take on another task, in the name of conservation?? Yes, pigeons have gone to ground, hence starting another topic! Cheers,

I always try to make sure they go into the food chain, unless they have been impaled on the magnet or floater. Then the foxes can have them. Tonight I have delicious pigeon breasts, slow cooked in a red wine/beef gravy..... Eat your heart out Gents!!! In Canada I de-breast my geese and tie the body to a tree for the bears/racoons/skunks and Bob the Bobcat to eat. Can't do that here in my tiny semi-suburban garden!

Thanks for all the good advice Gents. I do have a contact who can give them to some zoo for the lions and tigers (yes, it's true, shot with lead too) but as I am just back from my summer vacation, I am not back in touch with him yet. All friends and fellow beaters usually take a lot but again, connections have not yet been reopened. Meantime, I have negotiated a bit more room in MY freezer and I am adopting MM's idea of a sealed rubble sack on the cold concrete floor of the garage. Roll on winter, the problem goes away! (and the pigeons should hit the rape)

Good plans but I am a bit overwhelmed by numbers. "Er indoors" doesn't want them in the house freezer, so last year I brought a small stand-alone freezer for the garage. This has now been commandeered too, so a few for decoys is all I have space for!! 40 birds take up quite a volume but the farmer doesn't want me to lay off them!!

Last Wednesday I shot 10 birds, de-breasted them and put the carcasses in an old (Paper) potato bag and chucked it into the grey rubbish bin, which is only collected every other Monday. Today, I have maggots crawling out of the bin, with 6 days to go before it is emptied. I also have another 40 birds to deal with. The weather is still very warm. I don't like the idea of dumping rotting bodies in a layby, anyone got a better idea? By the way 75% of my victims have been young birds, probably uneducated and that's why I have been quite lucky!!

When I get a goose, I de-breast it, tie the rest to a tree and put out the trail camera: (OK, so I'm in Canada....)

My best day ever!

I I can't remember what ammo cost but in my university holidays I worked on a farm and my mate and I could shoot rabbits at night from the back of my mini pick-up. I had to shoot Baikal "shoulder-busters" as they were the only ones that came in a box of 10, which I could afford. (maybe that's why I don't have problems with shoulder mount today?) We had to be careful with our shots, if we got about 8 rabbits we could go to the pub, sell most of them, have a beer, refuel the pick-up and buy another box of 10 Bailkals for next week, with, maybe a rabbit or 2 for dinner. I'm still careful with my shooting and usually average about 1.5 shots/pigeon, not because I'm a great shot but I'm frugal with the ammo!

Thanks for the idea. I'm lucky in that I have very simple tastes and low running costs. Still have the 1st SxS I brought early '70's for £17.50, plus a 2nd hand o/u. My better half also has a decent pension (ex local Gov!) She also is low maintenance! (Thank God!!) Forgot to add- no kids to drain the system!!

I didn't work the full number of years. The £150 is an approximation but quite close I think, a bit over £600/month, x 12, divided by 52....

Well done that man! Much the same up here in Canada, goose season starts 10th, bag limit 10/day. (never filled that though)

WOW, 30p/pigeon! In the early '70's I was at university and my annual grant was £595. Beer was 13p in the student bar and 15p in a pub. (now £5+) Petrol was 32p/gallon (now £7++) It cost 35p to go and watch Newcastle play soccer (now £25 min) So a pigeon was worth: About 3 pints in the SU or 2 in a pub(£10) About 1 gall (£7++) About 1 visit to the soccer (£25 min) I was pleased the 1st time my take home pay was £20 but now my OAP is about £150. So, income up by 7.5 times, pigeon value a third! We ARE worse off!! (sorry about the format!)

All for a bag limit of 15! Hardly worth the effort? I shot a few in Texas once, they are much smaller than a woody but do taste nice after hitting the BBQ!

And the supermarkets said "Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"

Well said!! Trouble is, we, the "Sheep" can be easily scared: 250,000 deaths from BSE -WRONG 500,000 deaths from Covid -WRONG Multiple Covid boosters will help- WRONG but it will boost Big Phama's profits Climate change is caused by CO2 - unproven, water vapour is probably more damaging. Electric vehicles will save the world - wrong, there is not enough electricity to heat our homes, let alone run vehicles. However, the push for "clean energy" is the new cash cow for solar panel installers, wind farm builders etc etc. Tighter gun control will reduce gun crime - WRONG It goes on and on. As you say, "We need to see ‘clean data’ not campaigning under the guise of science." Time to go and lie down again......

My point exactly, no reasons are given, just the old religion that lead is dangerous. At last, sensible debate, many thanks! I especially like points 7, 8 and 9. By the way, the US is considering banning tungsten because of "reproduction problems". Cheers,

On the contrary, rather than just trade insults I would admit that lead is not harmless but until there is proven evidence that eating shot game is or can be dangerous or even just harmful, I will stick to my opinion that we should ignore the scaremongering. That is my opinion, which I do not believe is "patently false and dishonest." This type of posting is why I quit pigeon forum, not enough debate and too many insults thrown to people who hold different ideas.

"It's worth noting that even when leaded petrol was in use throughout the world, people weren't dropping dead from acute lead poisoning, but children were suffering from reduced IQ and neurological disorders, adults were suffering higher rates of cardiovascular disease and degenerative neurological disease." And this was due to lead in petrol??? Any evidence which is not anecdotal?

This very interesting article has tempted me out of Pigeon Forum retirement! It seems to be a very competent and through piece of work, carried out with the sole intent of finding lead fragments. I wonder who commissioned it? However, if the findings are accurate, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, it ignores the 1st of the objectives named in the title: "Implications for food safety.." If lead were as toxic as were are led to believe and as widespread in game as the article suggests, the Edwardian landowners of the early 20th century would have died not from lead fired at them by the Germans but from eating shot game. In fact, the findings of the article suggest lead must be far less toxic than advertised but this is not discussed. This fear of lead is one of the new "religions" we have been spoon-fed, led by "Cult Priests" like BASC. I have had several email conversations with BASC executives on the subject. They state that "the evidence showing lead damages the general environment" (NOT wetlands which is a different ball-game) "is indisputable". When asked to produce evidence, they have a sheaf of documents about wetlands and one case where a pellet was found in the crop of a grey partridge. Nothing suggests the partridge was harmed by mistakenly picking the pellet up. The final "evidence" is that lead has been removed from gasoline and that lead-based paints are banned. If lead were easily absorbed and deadly, we would see piles of dead foxes, red kites and buzzards, which clear up any pricked birds. All are flourishing. When I'm in Canada, I live near a huge lead smelter (Trail BC). In the early 20th century, pollution from the plant was so bad that most trees in the forest within a 10 mile radius were killed. The plant was cleaned up and the forest is re-growing but lead levels remain very high in the soil, ground water and vegetation. However, fish live in the creeks and rivers, ospreys and bald eagles feed on them. Deer consume the grasses and cougars consume the deer. All are healthy. So why do we buy into this "lead is deadly" religion? Or the other "religions" of today, like "We can control Covid 19", "Masks work", "repeated applications of a vaccine which neither stops you getting it or transmitting it is essential". "CO2 is responsible for global warming and we can do something about it" "Net zero is possible", "Electric cars will save the world" "Ethanol in fuel will help" . Rants over!! I had better go and lie down in a darkened room and wait for goose season to open in 2 weeks!!

Too much slagging off of others going on. Got bored reading it.

The case I offer to the landowner/keeper is that I will never shoot anywhere near game cover or roosting woods and will ONLY set up around the perimeter of the game shooting area. That way, IF my activities have any effect on gamebirds, it will be to stop them wandering away, sort of dogging in. Often convinces the landowner, although I was once turfed off a farm because "The pheasants will be coming in next week and I want it to be quiet"

It's the wires that are my nightmare. Pigeons sitting on them, before dropping down to feed, can be seen by any pigeon for miles around and will attract them better than anything. So, you see laden wires and set up. Of course, the pigeons leave and you have lost the advantage. IF birds return at all and you shoot one, you are back to square 1 again. As happened to Sam, the will go to another place, if no shooting results, they will build up there and you look like a fool. When I win the Euro millions and buy a shooting farm, false wires will go up, with a system of pulleys to move lofted decoys along the wires......... Watch this space!!

These days I find "lines" are actually "flock-strings" where a bunch of birds sit in the trees until they all follow a brave pathfinder in to feed. Anything scares the situation and it's either back to the trees and start again somewhere else or "forget it, I'm not hungry anyway"

Welcome back Cat, long time no see.. Yes, Herts and my part of Essex do seem down on birds wrt a decade or 2 ago but I don't think you can blame the kites, who are mainly carrion eaters. Changes in farming methods (better drilling, cleaner combines with chaff cutters, early cultivation and now the reduction in OSR) are taking their toll, plus overshooting too, is making pigeons every-device-aware. Right now the main feed seems to be about 5.00am, with a top-up, if nice and quiet, about 7.30 - 9.00pm, not the usual hours of a pigeon shooter. My farmers will not let me out at dawn for fear of noise complains so it's free feed time. Cheers, Kitchrat

SOME in my area of Essex but nothing special.