PeterHenry

I expect it because I see it regularly - at diffrent shoots, and with friends and family. Shooting still continues in other countries that have banned lead shot you know.

Some of them were sitting on others - so appered larger than they actually are. They aren't uniform in shape, but they are nowhere near as bad as the photo looks.

Thanks - Miroku Matt sorted me out with both in the end. From memory, I think the literature that came with my gun said the only reason Browning don't sugest using steel with full choke is because it is liable to blow the pattern. I know other individuals / authorities say otherwise. Personally, like you say - I tend to stick to cylinder and 1/4 for HP or 1/4 and 1/2 at most for standard. I'm fairly cautious by nature, and the combination tends to work well for me. My reason for wanting a second full choke is to use with the new 3" bio ammo cartridges for duck flighting.

👍

Yes, perhaps - and @Konorhas my unreserved apologies if he chooses to accept them. No good is achived by falling out with people on the Internet. Lots of heat, and very little to show for it.

Despite our similarities, we obviously inhabit different parts of this debate. I want to see more game on shop shelves, not less - although I would like to see better prices for it, which would necessitate less of it being shot. As i've said, that is no bad thing in itself - but I have no desire to see the end of driven shooting, as I enjoy it every bit as much as rough shooting or wildfowling. Your right, excess is a bad look. But theres a whole world between excess and hair shirts. Insofar as the defensibility of shooting - what some of us tend to veiw as defensible as a comunity has equal capacity to look bad in the eyes of the public. Just look at the comments section of any online newspaper artical on wildfowling. Regardless of your veiw, laws, especially in our democracy, are ultimately underpinned by the consent of the public. As the population grows increasingly divorced from the realites and traditions of the countryside, shooting has a growing number of PR problems. But people are in no danger of forgetting the need to eat. Game shooting ultimately has to be about food. That doesn't stop it from being about other things as well - and those other things are important. But if the buck stops anywhere - it stops at food. That is something non shooting pepole can be involved in. If we are going to survive as a sport - that is a major way our social licence, and therefor our legal rights are maintained - because it has the capacity to broaden our base vastly beyond what we could achive otherwise. If we need to get rid of lead to achive that - so be it. As far as I can see, your view boils down to the fact you would rather others sport was curtailed more severely, so that you are not inconvenienced yourself. And having said that, i'm out.

Again, I agree with a lot of that - which is why - unless I have missed or misread something - I'm still confused as to your opposition to BASC and others doing something about the massive PR issue (amongst other things) that is lead shot? Even if we got the roll back of bag sizes we would ideally like - with game shooting being what it is - there would still be surplus game (albeit more saleable and hopefully at a price befitting its true value). But it would still contain something commonly held by most pepole to be toxic. That's a big PR issue - and it's a PR issue that confronts anyone who wants to, or even considers eating game - which is a big step closer to the consumer / public, than anything to do with bag sizes. I get how irritating it is not to be able to use some of the beautiful old English and Scottish guns so readily. I've got a Scottish side by side that when I bought it was all I was ever going to need. To this day its still my favourite gun - but I'd rarther relegate it to the safe and increaseingly use a modern over and under with non toxic shot - because - as we both agree - public consent govens our ability to continue our sport - and if someone looks at a pheseant or partridge and it comes with a health warning on it, it's very difficult to see how that consent can be maintained.

Its strange, because the bags and type of shooting you favour are exactly the sort I favour. The bag on my little syndicate goes perhaps above 20 on a good day. There are certainly a lot of days where its less than that. But is it not to be presumed that if you were in a possition of any influence, you would inforce your ideal? Or would it be voluntary? And if it was inforced, how so? Bag limits? (US) Licencing for releasing birds? (Wales) licencing shoots themselves? (Scotland). All of those things are far more damaging to the fabric of game shooting than the use of steel shot. I share your concern about bags - but the way things are going, if left alone, those will come down anyway. Prices are rising, pockets are shrinking - and luxuries are the first things to be scaled back. It happened before - and I suspect it will happen again. Regardless, Its very easy to make shooting look bad on YouTube as far as the average person goes - it doesn't take Dave Carrie. It could just as easily be you or me with our handful of ducks. I also suspect you will ultimately get your wish in the form of some kind of regulation - because that also seems to be the way things are going at the moment. But it certiantly won't shore up our shared pastime, and unlike BASC and the other orgs attempt with lead shot to divert the flow of things to shootings benefit, it'll be an actual, objective milestone towards the end of game shooting in Britain - and something to be resisted at every opportunity.

Exactly

Controversial? How on earth would you go about it? It sounds awfully similar to something the Welsh Government is trying to achieve at the moment. You can't go off on one at John Swift, et al. for damaging shooting and then - as I read it - state in an ideal world you would stop shoots over a certain size. Pot calling kettle black springs to mind... I would take steel shot over your sugestion any day of the week - and that's coming from somone who has no intrest in big bags whatsoever.

That's great thanks - much appreciated 👍

No problem at all 👍

👍 Very wise. I only ask because some say BioAmmo Blue behaves better with certian choke constrictions than others. For the record, I found it worked well with 1/4 and 1/2 last season.

@B686 excellent bag - do you mind me asking what choke you used?

No problem - I've cut open a new cartridge and borrowed a pair of scales. The shot from the 27g cartridge comes in at 27g for 218 pellets