GRUMPY Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Looking to buy an fac air rifle and in an attempt to keep costs down I've be offered - quite legitimately - argon as an alternative gas in a half size bottle at 300 bar, including it's own regulator. Perhaps I should say I use industrial gases every day so I asked my supplier about compressed air which he can't do, but instead offered argon as mentioned or even nitogen but only at 200 bar. Now these are considerably cheaper than anything I've ever seem and just wondered if there was any reason why I couldn't use them Your thoughts please Grumpy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneshotkiller Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Yeah heres a good reason it will blow the **** UP! :blink: See here what happens when you fill with anything other than oxygen http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/attachment...mp;d=1219057822 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moz Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Argon is inert. I would not blow up. As is nitrogen (compressed air is 79%ish nitrogen anyway) Oxygen, on the other hand - If you want to fill an oily gun with high pressure oxygen then please inform the neighbours first. They may want to retire to a safe distance :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Looking to buy an fac air rifle and in an attempt to keep costs down I've be offered - quite legitimately - argon as an alternative gas in a half size bottle at 300 bar, including it's own regulator. Perhaps I should say I use industrial gases every day so I asked my supplier about compressed air which he can't do, but instead offered argon as mentioned or even nitogen but only at 200 bar. Now these are considerably cheaper than anything I've ever seem and just wondered if there was any reason why I couldn't use them Your thoughts please Grumpy sounds like you have been smoking Argon. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 You will be ok to use nitrogen but do not use argon as it is a denser gas and might cockup the gasflow dynamics in your gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Yeah heres a good reason it will blow the **** UP! :blink: See here what happens when you fill with anything other than oxygen http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/attachment...mp;d=1219057822 Oneshotkiller is talking sphericals, and dangerous ones at that! Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES do you fill and air rifle with Oxygen. NITROGEN will be absolutely fine and better than air. Argon may well work, but is considerably more expensive than NITROGEN. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Grumpy, how much are you paying for argon / nitrogen I pay £3 to fill a 12L 300 bar bottle with air at the local dive centre I get about 6 months worth of shooting out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRUMPY Posted November 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Thanks webber et al. Yes, have no fear oxygen was NEVER an option. As yet I havn't bothered with prices until I found out the feasabity of it. I can see the logic behind nitrogen because as moz says it's 78/79% the make up of air anyway. My gas supplier's only concern was with the valve and he say's that some of his other 'pcp' users get those from a diving shop. It seems he supplies other people with nigtrogen but as I said thats only 200 bar. That's the reason for the interest in the argon at 300 bar. I'll ask the gasman some prices ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRUMPY Posted November 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hi alexr. It wasn't the refill price that bothered me. It was the initial purchase of £200 + for a 12l bottle that I was trying to avoid. I figured an industrial bottle would be much much less than that and with such a huge capacity would last for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) Must admit i cant argue with that You pay £400 plus for the gun then about another £200 for sights, bipod, sling, bag etc and then £200 plus for the bottle. Your right. Not a cheep bit of fun. makes me wounder why I didnt just pay £250 for a springer ( until I use the PCP's that is. Then I ve no doubt it was money well spent ). :blink: Edited November 4, 2009 by alexr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneshotkiller Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 By oxygen i meant divers air DOH However i still stick by what i say in that it was desighned to run on clean compressed air , their is obviously a reason airgun manafactures express divers air only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneshotkiller Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Can i also just add that do we really want a newbie reading this , god knows wht someone may fill their rifle cylinder with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Your standard thread on diving cylinder is 5/8 bsp ,200 or 300 bar only differs as there are 3 more threads on a 300 bar adaptor and the boss is a bit chunkier with a 3mm spigot on it so it should not fit into a 200 bar cylinder , The other one is an A clamp which clamps onto a flat surface with a o'ring seal , An industrial cylinder is fitted with a boc bullnose fitting which is a 5/8 bsp thread with a conical centre shaft with either a plain surface which you use a spanner to tighten or an o'ring which is hand tight , You can get a o'ring boc bullnose adaptor from Midland diving equipment in leicester and it will fit a standard pcp charging setup with a 1/4 bsp female thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covlocks Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Best Fittings or MDE will supply all the adapters you want, however ......... Most Nitrogen bottles only fill to 200bar/3000lb, its not that much cheaper and the bottle is a damn sight larger to lug around. Breathing Air is specified because unless you are well up on gases it adds to the risk of someone filling their bottles with something more exotic and explosive, secondly, its more available and finally anything apart from a dive bottle is bl**dy heavy. ....... and as a side thing - apart from dive bottles - gas bottles belong to the supplier, not individuals. You rent them on a monthly basis and they replace them, not refill them on site. So you are not buying a bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 I fill mine with hydrogen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 I fill mine with hydrogen. I sincerely hope that you DO NOT, Cease and Desist IMMEDIATELY webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3jackwhite3 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 As i understand these guns where mate to run on compressed air only otherwise the makers of the gun would say otherwise, i used a pump when i had air guns its not that hard to use and they are cheaper than a bottle, i used it on a gunpower stealth,air arms s200 and an air arms s410. i have the pump for sale its a bsa hills pump as i sold all my airguns and went FAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRUMPY Posted November 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 I'll ignore the Hydrogen suggestion, but I guess it would lighten the gun Having now spoken to the my ' gasman ' He reminded me that he has quite a number of customers that use nitrogen with no problems, even the 230 bar of a full cylinder doesn't bother them - just a few less fills I guess. The appeal of course is the shear size of the bottle, obviously not one to cart around as they're 5ft tall and weigh a ton, but at £20 a time and years of fills its got to be a good deal. He then said I could have the same size cylinder of compressed air for the same price. Now he said yesterday he hadn't got any. Hey Ho ! It seems to connect one of these commercial cylinder to the gun will cost around £100 ! (The brilliant guy at ' best fittings ' wasn't phased by it and apparently not an unusual request ) Would it cost me that sort of money to connect to the more normal 12l diving bottle ? I forgot to ask him. Anyway guys thanks for all your thoughts even the scary ones !! So just to repeat the message - DON'T GO TRYING OXYGEN OR HYDROGEN AT HOME - RIGHT !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarpa Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) Full fitting hose, gauge and bleed for A clamp and DIN is £52.95 in the case of Uttings. Also look at BAR site. Watch out for p&p costs. All fittings seem to be approx the same price. http://www.uttings.com/?categories/Shootin...flesPrecharged/ Edited November 5, 2009 by Scarpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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