shooting near release pens

[digger]

went decoying today on the farm i shoot over.i spoke to the land owner and said i wouldnt shoot on a certain field as the keeper has a release pen in the woods next to it and ducks on two ponds in a copse in the middle.

whilst i was parked up watching a flight line the land owner came up and told me to shoot the above field as there were more woodies there than he had seen elsewhere.when i asked about the keeper and explained i didnt want to fall out with him,even though he is a *****,he said "if he moans,tell him to **** off".

he owns the land but leases the sporting rights to a syndicate,only for game shooting.

i shot the field ( ended up with 38 ) and had poults in and around my hide all day,no concern at all.

sorry for the long winded way of asking but : whats your opinion ? does shooting near a release pen do more harm than good ? imo it makes no odds,i left long before the birds went up to roost and provided the nosy little scruffs with something to look at.

wont happen again as when i picked up my empty cases i counted 1** of them :*)

[dunganick]

i do the odd vermin drive this time of the year as the birds go in, and we are often shooting only yards away from the pens, youve got to guess it dosent do anything harmful or the keeper wouldnt do it.

 

 

drop me a pm some time mate about our previously discused day out, after 2 weeks of being in dorset and an unsuccesful stalk im desperate to get out and about, and my shooting buddy is away, so i would be all on my lonesom :unsure:

[Cranfield]

Once the birds are established, if the shooting is not too regular and is finished before the birds go up to roost, I doubt if it causes any great problems.

 

In the instance you describe, the bigger problem is getting caught in a dispute between the Landowner and the people he leases the game shooting to.

I have experienced the, "tell them I said so" Landowners, but when it comes to the crunch, the Syndicates money wins the day and the pigeon shooter can be the one to lose out. :unsure:

[lurcherboy]

Digger, I am in a similar position, thats to say 'piggy in the middle'

 

Carry on as your shooting depends on it. As Cranfield said, the birds are established, so you are just getting them used to gunfire.

 

How to deal with the keeper will be up to you mate :unsure:

 

 

 

LB

[Country Boy]

digger,

 

If you earned your crust by 'keepering you would'nt want someone shooting near any wood or release pen from mid July onwards on I can assure you.

 

When someone shoots close to a release pen from which the poults later depart, not necessarily because of the pigeon shooter but could be a bird of prey, the weather, poachers, a fox or an alternative food source, or 'owt, then it is safe to bet you will be blamed and thats your trust gone and no more stoggie shooting!

 

A good rule of thumb is :

RE:PARTRIDGE POULTS - FROM MID JUNE / RE:PHEASANT POULTS - FROM MID JULY :- KEEP AWAY FROM ALL WOODS AND PARTICULARLY THOSE WITH RELEASE PENS - FULL STOP.

 

C.B.

[Dorset Bumpkin]

Shooting near a release pen can also give foxes, buzzards etc an easy meal from unpicked birds especially in standing crop so that they leave the poults alone. (Although it might of course just encourage more vermin into the area.)

 

I used to sell some pigeons to a bloke who fed them to the buzzards for the first few weeks that his pheasants went to wood.

[HAMMY]

You are better to "keep in" with the keeper, and ensure you are away from where he is feeding the birds to, the problem is not the pen! I reality by this time of year they are out the pen and should be at or be on their way to the feed rides, in some cases shooting may keep them where they are supposed to be!

 

Talk to the keeper.

 

Hammy

[Country Boy]

Look guys, there is no valid excuse to justify shooting near any woods at this time of year, any 'keeper worth his salt will fall out big time with you if you do.

 

If you are allowed to pigeon shoot on any land which rears game remember just how privileged that is, especially if you are not involved with the shoot.

Put yourself in the 'keepers boots, he has a job to do whilst you are merely seeking enjoyment!

 

So get out on the fields and frame yourselves at decoying the pigeons away from the woods.

 

C.B.

[Guest Mr Pieman]

I provide a service to the farmer to keep pigeon damage to a minimum. If he is happy for me to shoot them, he can sort out any 'differences of opinion' with the keeper.

 

PP

[invector]

NEVER shoot near release pens without permission of the `keeper if you wish to keep your shooting!! Do NOTHING to alienate the `keeper or game shooters and avoid becoming `piggy-in-the-middle`or you will be the one to lose.

 

The `keeper has a 24/7 job to do and should be consulted any time your pigeon/vermin shooting might affect the game shooting. Do everything you can to mesh in with other shooting and sporting activities on your land and you may, in the future, gain from it.

[Guest Mr Pieman]

Sorry,

 

but the keeper isn't God. If the farmer says its ok, that's good enough for me.

 

PP

[Cranfield]

From my earlier response you may have guessed that I was caught up in a similar dispute some years ago, it was a Father and Son operated Farm, that I had shot for about 10 years.

 

The year previous to this event, the Son had arranged the lease of the Game Shooting to a Syndicate.

 

It was late Summer, with poults in the pens, The Father asked me specifically to keep the pigeons off a field of laid wheat.

In the middle of this field was a small copse, with one of the release pens inside.

I asked the Father to contact the part time Keeper, to let him know I would be shooting on this field.

He said he would, but it wasn't anything to do with the Shooting Syndicate.

 

I set up as far away from the copse as I could, probably about 250 yards and had a very busy day, I must have fired over 200 cartridges.

Around teatime the Son turns up with the Keeper and gives me a rollicking.

I explained that his Father had asked me to cover the field and had said he would contact the Keeper.

 

The outcome was, that the Father and Son had a big row, but I was in the clear.

Then a few weeks later, when they had made up their differences, the Father told me that the Keeper would be handling all the pest control and I should contact him in future.

 

Needless to say, when I contacted the Keeper, my services were no longer required. :unsure:

[digger]

thanks for your feedback gents.the farmer had a fall out with the keeper and i think i was used as a means of payback.i was told that he would withdraw the game shooting rights and my pigeon shooting wouldnt be safe if the keeper doesnt have an attitude adjustment asap.i heard this today so god knows what awaits me next weekend.

the keeper is more than happy for us to lamp foxes and rabbits on the field i shot but as he doesnt farm it i guess any rabbit damage is not his concern and i get the impression as its not his bosses land fox control is not down to him either :unsure:

i should have made it clearer in my first post that this is one field on a large farm.

nick will pm you re the shoot

[The Big Red Fox]

digger,

 

If you earned your crust by 'keepering you would'nt want someone shooting near any wood or release pen from mid July onwards on I can assure you.

 

When someone shoots close to a release pen from which the poults later depart, not necessarily because of the pigeon shooter but could be a bird of prey, the weather, poachers, a fox or an alternative food source, or 'owt, then it is safe to bet you will be blamed and thats your trust gone and no more stoggie shooting!

 

A good rule of thumb is :

RE:PARTRIDGE POULTS - FROM MID JUNE / RE:PHEASANT POULTS - FROM MID JULY :- KEEP AWAY FROM ALL WOODS AND PARTICULARLY THOSE WITH RELEASE PENS - FULL STOP.

 

C.B.

Can't argue with that..........

 

Adam

[Highlander]

DIPLOMACY should be another word for pigeon shooter. Farmers have their ways keepers have theirs pigeon shooters have theirs BUT if you upset any one of 'em the pigeon shooter's the one who'll most likely lose out. Don't try telling a keeper his job even if you think he's got it wrong not if you want to remain on good terms and you should.

 

I shoot on a number of 'keepered' estates and mostly I get on well with the keepers but theres not one of them wants me shooting anywhere near their release pens. One won't even have me on the ground from August thru to February. As I rely on them giving me notice in many instances about when and where the pigeons are at any time I'm not about to upset them. In almost all instances the keeper and the landowner work together so so do I.

 

Work as a team.

[invector]

Cranfield that`s precisely what I was trying to explain in my post. In the past I`ve encountered brothers who farm next to each other and don`t talk. A father and son who ignore each other, farmers who hate gamekeepers, and gamekeepers who hate farmers. When you are pigeon and vermin shooting in these situations you are treading a very find line and stand to lose your hard won shooting if you take sides or say the wrong thing.

 

The gamekeeper may not be God Mr Pieman but he can pull so many strings when his living, and the success of an expensive shoot, are threatened by itinerant pigeon shooters. Co-operation with the landowners, tenants, shoot owners, gamekeepers, stockmen, tractor drivers etc, is the correct way to go. Service your shooting and you`ll gain from it in the long run.

[Stalker_2]

I’m surprised the game syndicate hasn’t got that issue all sown up legally…I have.

 

FWIW, down in the South pigeon shooters pay for the privilege and the income helps pay for the sporting rights that cost many thousands of pounds. I’m surprised that the farmer is willing to jeopardise that kind of income…I know mine sends every request for shooting my way and I make the decision.

 

Since the shoots can cost the price of some houses to run, I know what takes precedence for me and I think it would be wise for some to remember that. If my shoot was ruined because of some action of a third party and I was faced with a refund bill for around £60,000, you had better believe I’d be coming after you in the courts.

 

Cheers all

 

S_2

[invector]

Hope that`s put that one to bed Stalker-2.

[The Big Red Fox]

:(

Don't want to get into a blaze about this

Edited August 11, 2005 by The Big Red Fox

[digger]

the post i made i have decided to withdraw.cant be doing with arguing that money wins. :(

Edited August 11, 2005 by digger

[Stalker_2]

I didn’t see the edited responses to my post but I can imagine what they were.

 

I’m sorry if stating what the reality of the situation is today upsets some shooters, but times are changing whether we like it or not.

 

To put things into perspective my local landowner discovered that they were losing money on the organic pigs. They got rid of them.

I was approached and asked to set up and run a shoot. The money involved is simply staggering. We will hopefully be breaking even this year and turning a small profit next year. Because the farmer gets paid for every service he provides…be it machinery hire, sowing cover crops and putting aside the land for that and the exclusive shooting rights on the land he has increased his income from shooting by 600% and offset the loss of the pigs. That is good for him and his farm, but bad for shooters who used to shoot for free…but as he says, “If there’s a choice between my livelihood and your sport guess who wins”?

 

The down side to the above is that it establishes a priority order for those with financial or contractual obligations. Unfortunately pigeon shooters shooting for free don’t even show up on the list. We deal with the pigeon problem via let days to supplement the shoot income and deal with the short notice trouble spots with either syndicate guns or ourselves.

 

IMHO the days of getting free shooting are rapidly coming to an end as more farmers feel the financial squeeze. Those who are lucky enough to have it at the moment should enjoy it to the full and move Heaven and Earth to keep it for as long as you can.

 

Cheers

 

S_2

Edited August 12, 2005 by Stalker_2

[The Big Red Fox]

Stalker2

In my opinion of which I'm entitled your attitude stinks!

I'm not a mad pigeon enthusiast but I enjoy a day out like any-one, try and remember that these poor, poverty stricken humble pigeon shooters also contribute to the BASC, or some other body and when the pigeon shooting dries up because you guys have moved on and when they can't afford the fees which contributes to your enjoyment please remember that when they go so does some of your voice..........!

 

 

I shoot pheasants and partridge and enjoy working my dogs picking up too and I've never come across any-one as pig headed as you come across...

 

Digger I'm with you mate and here's a prime example........what an ***.

Adam

[digger]

stalker,my post was edited as i cant be doing with arguing.it contained no insults but on reading it after it was posted i removed it.too placid for my own good.

the rent for shooting rights the farmer in my original post is not a vast sum of money.i dont think he would happily jeapordise it if it were.

too right it creates a situation where money talks,that is going to do more damage to shooting than the antis could ever hope for.im not in a posistion to pay vast amounts for huge tracts of land any more than i am to pay for a driven day.i am in a posistion to shoot whenever the farmer calls me,be it rats,rabbits,rooks,pigeons foxes or ferals.its his farm and he kindly allows me to shoot over it with a bottle or two and the odd crate of bitter as payment.best i enjoy it if the future is someone offering him the price of a semi to the sole rights.if thats the future of shooting,money men driving out "sport shooters" then i may as well sell my guns now. ******** if im going to pay a besuited tarquin to shoot on land i once had for free just to keep his accounts book looking good.

if theres a choice between my sport and your livelihood,well there aint because i cant afford to compromise on my shooting or my morals.

never been closer to packing up shooting than i am now.ive seen the future and it may work for you but it sure as hell wont work for the vast majority of pigeon shooters :<

[The Big Red Fox]

Digger

You obviously feel strongly about this and managed to write back with more tact than me but for my remarks I have no appology.

Keep up the shooting it's what you enjoy and it's our heritage and sport, not all farmers are as money motivated as this guy thinks, I know a farmer who go well shot of the syndicate on his ground because the vermin (Pigeons) were eating his crops and the big money guys wouldn't spend a bean on a cartridge to help him :<

 

Money doesn't always talk and if this **** wants to show off let him..........

 

Adam

[digger]

stalker,bored so went and read all the posts you have made.you are no longer into pigeon shooting,seem to know everything there is to know about rifles and can be really patronising.so far i have summed you up imo,oh and you were in the army,so what.

now the interesting bit = in your very first post you ask the going rate for pigeon shooting.so,you got a bit of land in hampshire on your ticket ( is it yours or daddies ? ) and you charge people to shoot pigeons on it ?

you dont shoot pigeons yet come on this forum and preach that selling pigeon shooting is the future ?

you patronising fool.go away,study every web page that will make you look better then go further away.point taken mr know all ?

ern,sorry but this T**t has really got me riled.i ask advice from my peers not idiots.

edited to add-you keep reading this stalker then going away.whys that ?

Edited August 12, 2005 by digger