Can using rimfire or FAC PCP ruin 12ft/lb shooting

[Axe]

A shooting colleague is concerned that should I get a .22lr rimfire, that it will ruin the shooting for him, on permission that we share, as he only has a 12ft/lb rifle.

 

His main concern is that the rabbits might get wise to the greater range which will prevent him from being able to get in to range and take any shots.

 

I honestly have no idea about this but I have explained to him that the rimfire will both be quieter than my current PCP and his unsilenced springer. I also feel that land owners that have granted us permission for pest control, should be managed properly. The rimfire or indeed an FAC PCP, should be very good for this.

 

We both would appreciate as much info on this as possible as it is both complicated and awkward.

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

[roblade]

ok i have voted no, even though i have no personal experiance of this, but i know some that have.

 

as long as your mates field craft is up to it i dont think it matters what he is using, the only thing and FAC rifle has over a normal one it doubles.

 

I know of a coupe of shooters who go out together one with a rimmy and the other with standard S300 both get similar size bags sometimes the air rifle gets and even bigger bag LOL

 

But i dont think rabbits will get wise to the greater range if they cant see you!

 

A rimmy is no quieter than a decent 12F/lbs PCP rifle.

 

I know which i would prefer a nice S410 classic in .177 under the legal limit no messing about with FAC variations if i get new permision just turn up and shoot (once a decent reccy has been done) could be a 400 acre job or could be a back garden rat shoot the .177 would be up to either job as long as i do my bit with it.

 

If the land does have a bad vermin problem then there should be enough for both the rimmy/FAC PCP and your mates springer.

 

ROB :unsure:

 

PS can you tell im anti high power? LOL i just prefer a nice bit of fieldcraft and my trusty springer :yp:

[roblade]

i do have just one question though:

 

why is your PCP not up to the job?

 

ROB :unsure:

[RAMMER BURT]

:yp: i think your find it's more to do with( lime light) if you know what i mean dont think you mate want's to be out classed :unsure:

[Axe]

why is your PCP not up to the job?

Good question Rob!

 

Actually it is up to the job, but not with me. I bought it as my first venture into PCP and field shooting. But, and I have to be honest, I fell foul of the I wants meaning the need to get into the field quickly and fully equiped. The S16 came up for grabs with everything on it so I made the most of it. Unfortunately, I plundered into the realms of inpatience and not trying out different guns. So now if anyone wants help getting into this sport I can speak from experience .

 

Though the Logun has been a forgiving rifle offering very good performance and accuracy, I find that I am limited to rested shots. Infact, I tend only to use the bi-pods! Its too heavy and far to big for my size, short and stumpy :unsure: though Sussex Lad would say 'not suited for crawling on belly'!!!

 

So basically I am now in the position where I need a rifle more suited to me. Since I have to spend some money I might as well make the most of it. I really can see the benefits of owning a legal limit rifle but I feel that the benefits of FAC outway this. After all, they are indeed alot cheaper and offer a more versatile power output that can be changed to suit both the situation and the greater choice of quarry.

 

Some of my permissions are riddled and really do need controlling. The extra leverage from FAC will enable me to perform this with greater success. That said, I am relatively new to this and may find, if I do go FAC, that this is another lesson by experiance. Without the physical knowledge i'll never truly know. I am off into the field soon with an experinced rimfire user and will be able to see the .22lr in action. Then and only then can I really make my mind up. One thing I am fairly certain of though is that if I do go FAC it wont be an air rifle.

 

The only contradiction to your original question is that my fieldcraft maybe lacking a little. However, as i said I dont like taking free standing shots, as most of the my shoots are getting wise, i'm finding it harder and harder to get them in range. Mind you, this is always during an early evening session with plenty of light, I havent tried lamping yet. Perhaps thats something I should concentrate on as well.

 

Anyway, I can always get a li'l s200 in 12ft/lb. I quite like them, small light weight, cheap and who knows, it could even be a .177 :yp:

 

Thanks for your reply Rob.

 

Axe.

Edited August 10, 2005 by Axe

[Axe]

:yp: i think your find it's more to do with( lime light) if you know what i mean dont think you mate want's to be out classed :unsure:

I hope not, we've been friends for far too long, for all that playground stuff.

[RAMMER BURT]

:unsure: as they say nought querer than folk

[deadeye ive]

I am off into the field soon with an experinced rimfire user and will be able to see the .22lr in action. Then and only then can I really make my mind up. One thing I am fairly certain of though is that if I do go FAC it wont be an air rifle.

Glad to see your taking hands on advice where these guns are concerned Axe .He'll no doubt explain about ricchochet and the inconsistancy of rimfire ammo.One thing i will say that once you've used a rimfire you won't want to go back to your air gun.

.22lr max consistant range 80 yds(can be made silent)depending on ammo used.

.17 hmr range 150yds ..............(ballistic tip ammo less likely to ricchochet).

 

 

Just a couple of pointers there,good luck with your application :yp:

 

 

 

Cheers Ive :unsure:

[deadeye ive]

PS can you tell im anti high power? LOL i just prefer a nice bit of fieldcraft and my trusty springer :unsure:

Sometimes you have to go high power Rob especially if most of your shooting is at night and the Quarry become lampshy as they always do .I have to agree though its more exhilerating to have to crawl within 35yds than it is to shoot at distances of 100yds+ but at night with lamps its not possible i'm afraid that is unless it is virgin land :yp:

 

 

Cheers Ive

[dunganick]

just dont miss, then they wont get wise :unsure:

[Gemini]

It does appear at first glance to be a case of the “Green-eyed-monster” raising its ugly head. :yp:

You have both been using air rifles and now that you may be able to upgrade to a .22 rimmy, he may just be a little jealous.

Do you really need a RF? And if not, then is the loss of your friendship worth the hassle.

Mind you, I wonder if things would be different if he wanted the RF..

Pity you can’t get another bit of land for you to shoot over with the RF and leave this bit for air rifles. :unsure:

G.M.

[Evilv]

Recently, I've been enjoying shooting on a place that hasn't been shot over for years. The rabbits at first were completely tame, allowing me to approach within 15 - 25 yards when there was a little cover. They'd also come out quite quickly from burrows after being disturbed, meaning that I could sit twenty yards from a hole I'd just shot a rabbit at and shoot another as it came out five minutes later for a look around. After taking out 75 rabbits in four visits from this shooter's paradise, they are now getting somewhat harder to approach - all the tame ones are dead, only the wary are left.

 

Contrast this with another neighbouring farm which has been regularly shot over with shotguns. I got permission to shoot there this afternoon by tapping the farmer as he was doing a bit of contract work on the first farm. I went down there and saw about forty rabbits in two fields, but boy were they hard to get near. I did get three, but found them very shy - ********* off when I was 150 yards off. Also, they won't sit near walls, so my usual tactic of creeping up to a wall and shooting them over the top of it, won't work. I have to say, this is how I get most of mine.

 

Regarding your question, this is what I think will happen. The rimfire rifle will allow you to remove the ones that you can't get now because they run off before you're within 35 - 40 yards. You'll get them at ten to thirty yards further, and then you'll only be left with the ones that are super shy. I suppose in time, more tame ones will be born, but ultimately, only the really shy will reproduce and they will tend to pass this shyness on to their offspring. So, your mate could be right. Ultimately, he's bound to get fewer shots after you've shot over it with a .22 LR

 

PS -

 

I've had quite a lot of experience with unsilenced .22lr. It's a lot louder than an air rifle of the TX 200 type - nowt like a 12 bore, but enough to send the ******* scrambling for cover for a hundred yards around. You might find you get a lot fewer shots unless you silence it, but your idea of taking a mate with a .22 lr to try it out is a good idea. They certainly have advantages: less prone to windage ( a lot less, because they're in the air for half the time for a given range). Also, the trajectory is a LOT flatter, and hollow point ammo will stop the ones you hit with a less than perfect shot, but then if you get one, you'll need a variation for every new piece of land until they eventually give you an open certificate. Can't plink in the garden with it either. Twelve foot pound rifles have their disadvantages, but the flexibility of go as you please shooting is quite nice in my opinion.

 

EDIT:

 

Forgot to mention that .22 lr are really cheap and light too.

 

cHECK OUT THESE PRICES THE cz 452 is well thought of I think and I had a Ruger 10/22 whcih was a good reliable little ten shot semi auto. http://www.gunshop-eb.co.uk/Rimfirerifles.htm

Edited August 10, 2005 by Evilv

[deadeye ive]

just dont miss, then they wont get wise :(

You hav'nt got a Blaunder Buss for sale in that collection of yours have you nick B)

 

Evilv

Not to sure about shy rabbits breeding shy rabbits as my understanding is that the more a piece of land is shot over the more experienced and streetwise the quarry becomes and the harder you have to work to get in range.Unless you are super skilled and experienced 12ft lbs is a waste of time on land that is shot regular,that's my opinion.

 

Cheers Ive

[old rooster]

With the best will in the world if you can't hit them with a decent air rifle (I'm talking about one with the ability to shoot good groups) I don't see how the rimmy will overcome that side of the issue. If the 22lr is good to 80 yards as a previous poster has suggested then hone your pcp skills, maybe with a gun that suits you better and "go get em Flloyd".

 

I've 2 Axsors and with the purchase of the new Daystate won't need them both, you can have one of those for £275 with scope and sound moderator, I've already posted info on their peformance with a few pics of bunnies that won't be getting shy ;-).

 

Well silenced pcp's make very little sound, the electronic Daystates have a solenoid in place of the conventional hammer so are mechanically quieter, with moderator you can hardly hear them go off !

[Axe]

One thing i will say that once you've used a rimfire you won't want to go back to your air gun.

.22lr max consistant range 80 yds(can be made silent)depending on ammo used.

.17 hmr range 150yds ..............(ballistic tip ammo less likely to ricchochet).

Almost everyone I have spoken to regarding rimfire etc has said exactly that. I just I hope I don't get too many 'I wants' not sure my wallet would take the strain!

 

I have enjoyed the air rifle and the stalk and think I always will. I just feel as though I should consider other options. Along with my FAC application I will probably also go for the shotgun ticket too. This will give me a far greater appreciation of the sport and enjoy a much wider variety of shooting.

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

[Axe]

It does appear at first glance to be a case of the “Green-eyed-monster” raising its ugly head.

You have both been using air rifles and now that you may be able to upgrade to a .22 rimmy, he may just be a little jealous.

Do you really need a RF? And if not, then is the loss of your friendship worth the hassle.

Mind you, I wonder if things would be different if he wanted the RF..

Pity you can’t get another bit of land for you to shoot over with the RF and leave this bit for air rifles. :(

G.M.

I'm sure this is not going to cause problems, I am more than willing to compromise. In all we have over 200acres so far and I have received word that an additional 137 acres has been approved.

I would say this though, alot of the land we are on, we are on for the pourposes of pest control. Should not our goal be to suffice these conditions before considering the sporting side of it. If we are to quibble about power of rifles and performance we might just miss the point and loose the permission. B) Then where would we be.

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

[Axe]

If the 22lr is good to 80 yards as a previous poster has suggested then hone your pcp skills, maybe with a gun that suits you better and "go get em Flloyd".

I have good reason for wanting an RF not least because I'd like to experience it. As I said before it will give me a greater appreciation and understanding of the sport etc. and the smell of a spent round is like freshly ground coffee, a hot loaf from the oven, freshly cut grass, oh you get the point. :(

 

Until I have gained the experience I will never be able to truly voice an oppinion and guide others in a sport that is crying out for new guns.

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

[Evilv]

I've 2 Axsors and with the purchase of the new Daystate won't need them both, you can have one of those for £275 with scope and sound moderator, I've already posted info on their peformance with a few pics of bunnies that won't be getting shy ;-).

 

Is that in .22?

 

Is it 12 ft pound or fac?

 

If Axe isn't interested Rooster, and you still want to move it, send me a message if you like.

 

Cheers

Edited August 11, 2005 by Evilv

[SNAKEBITE]

Can I just put my point across, after all I am the person in question in this thread! :(

 

The reason why I am wary of a Rimmy being used on the land is because I do not want my sport to be compramised. Is this selfish of me? ....... discuss.

 

In my opinion after only 8 months in the the sport (and having introduced AXE only 2 months into that) I feel I do not yet have sufficient skills in field craft and knowledge to run before walking. I need to be able to hone those skills so I am able to confidently take shots in all conditions and in all positions (prone, standing etc) and to able to do that within the 35yd range of the 12lb'er. I am getting there and enjoying doing it.

That is the true core of the sport. Taking a 80yd shot prone with a rimmy is good, but takes the fieldcraft skills down a level.

 

For the record I am not worried about being "out classed" or "out gunned". I have no doubt that I will eventually get an FAC and a rimmy is the way to go. However I want to EARN it.

I have also had the oppurtunity to shoot a rimmy "in action" and found it to be a fantastic experience!

Once that happens I will ofcourse be using it on land that I will not be using the 12lb'er on.

The reason for that is because I believe that once the rabbits are used to being taken out at 70yds the a 35yd shot is going to be very hard to achieve.

 

Oh forgot to mention I am basing my theories on personnal experience rather than hear say. Thought that might be worth adding B)

I am in the fortunate position to be able to shoot over a 1200 acre estate on a Sunday morning. There a pockets of rabbits all over. HOWEVER they have also enlisted the help of a PROFESSIONAL pest controler. He uses a rimmy to devestating effect. The net result is less rabbits that have become more warey. EVERY rabbit I get now has to be earned by careful fieldcraft. That make it all the more satisfactory.

To be honest I am having to concentrate on the ferals and crows in the dairy yard rather than spend all the time on rabbits, so all is not a fruitless walk round the country side! But it is nice to have a bit of sport as well.

 

At the end of the day I will do what I feel is necessary to achieve what I want out of this sport. I have made mistakes and will continue to do so until the end of my days! I can live with it and hopefully learn from it. I am not going to throw toys out of the pram but at the same time I will air my opinions and if necessary agree to disagree and move onto new land.

 

Lifes too short to be worried what other people think! As long as you are shooting safely then there is enough room for everyone.

[Axe]

I've 2 Axsors and with the purchase of the new Daystate won't need them both, you can have one of those for £275 with scope and sound moderator, I've already posted info on their peformance with a few pics of bunnies that won't be getting shy ;-).

 

Is that in .22?

 

Is it 12 ft pound or fac?

 

If Axe isn't interested Rooster, and you still want to move it, send me a message if you like.

 

Cheers

Until I have pondered the rimfire/air rifle debate long enough to reach a conclusion, I will not be making any purchases. The FAC application is going to take a few months or so anyway.

 

Thanks for the offer OR it sounds like a good buy, but will unfortunately have to decline. It sounds like evilv is more than willing to part with the cash.

 

Thanks once again.

 

Axe

Edited August 11, 2005 by Axe

[roblade]

wish more shooters thought like you snakebite :(

 

If you can shoot well with a springer, you will mopre than likly shoot excellently with any other rifle (bar gas ram)

 

ROB B)

[dunganick]

i believe to answer this question you need to 1st decide whether you are doing your shooting for your own pleasure or as vermin control for a farmer.

 

if the case is the latter then i believe any advantage as long as its of no great cost to yourself should be taken to rid the farmer of his pests.

 

however i think if its for sport and a good stalk is the kind of thing that appeals go for it, i have alot of time for people who could use a rimfire but choose to use the 12ftlb airgun instead. as long as shots are head shots and you dont get sloppy i think its a great way of prooving your in it for the challenge and not just out there to kill lots of animals.

 

im not taking it away from the rimfire users, i am one, and i know on one piece of land i am doing pest control and the bunnies are wary of people with shotguns (its overshot by a few people other than me) so i cant get within 40 yards of them, but with the rimfire i dont need to.

 

as the old saying goes, its all swings and round abouts

[SNAKEBITE]

wish more shooters thought like you snakebite :(

 

If you can shoot well with a springer, you will mopre than likly shoot excellently with any other rifle (bar gas ram)

 

ROB B)

I certainly do not want to come across as holier "than thou".

 

This is something I do feel strongly about though. It is like having a fast car, you WILL go fast in it but if you do go fast you need to be able to drive first!

 

Without a doubt (as Dunganick said) there is a need for a rimfire in the shooting line upi if you are after total eradication (or as near as is possible). However if I over do it then there is going to be nothing left to shoot!

 

I want the BALANCE between doing the job of pest control and the sport of which I have come to enjoy.

[Evilv]

I got the feeling that you'd been asked to control pests, and that you have a LOT of land to work over. I'd say you'd better do the control thing first and then when all is well under control, you can think about a bit of conservation. As for which tool to do the job, well that's for you two chaps to sort out between you, but I'd hope you'll be able to do it and remain good mates.

[dunganick]

also remeber, unless your land is a valley or exceptionaly safe the rimfire is often presented with targets that are not safe, this would suit a stalk with an airgun, i do on occasion walk about with an airgunner, and find that although i do with the rimfire take more shots, he does still get enough shots to keep him happy.

 

with lamping airgun rimfire combo's are very good, as again not all shots can be taken by the rimmy and you often find yourself alot closer to the bunnies.