Difference between 17HMR and 17MachII

[Frenchieboy]

I've just noticed that there is someone that is changing from a 17 HMR to a 17 MachII as "it suits their needs"! Just out of interest can someone explain to me (In simple laymans terms) what the difference between the two is.

Thanks guys!

[monkeymagic1969]

17 hmr is based on a .22magnum case and 17 machII is based on a .22lr case

17 HMR 2550 ft/sec -effective range upto 300yrds (on a good day) - cost about £12 for 50

17 Mach II 2150 ft/sec -effective range upto 200yrds (on a good day) - cost about £4.50 for 50

 

in reality 17hmr is a good 150yrd bunny gun and a 17 mach ii is a 125 yrd bunny gun

 

I have had both and rate the MachII as the better option

Edited February 13, 2010 by monkeymagic1969

[tweedledee]

when i bought the hmr i hunted in vein for a mach 2. none of the dealers here were interested in bringing over mach 2 ammo let alone a gun. i opted for the hmr because ammo was more readily available.

[Dekers]

17 hmr is based on a .22magnum case and 17 machII is based on a .22lr case

17 HMR 2550 ft/sec -effective range upto 300yrds (on a good day) - cost about £12 for 50

17 Mach II 2150 ft/sec -effective range upto 200yrds (on a good day) - cost about £4.50 for 50

 

in reality 17hmr is a good 150yrd bunny gun and a 17 mach ii is a 125 yrd bunny gun

 

I have had both and rate the MachII as the better option

 

 

Not sure I'd quite agree on the 200/300yard business, optimistic I'd say, but not an issue.

 

I have .22lr, .17HMR and .22WMR, I have no place for the MachII, some may, but for what I do I have no use for it at all.

 

VERY VERY limited area of use for anything it "may" do better than the others, but some may just have that use!!

[RC45]

I looked on Guntrader and there was only one MachII listed, so maybe they are not very popular.

[natcot]

I still have a slot for Mach 2 on my ticket, I just don't have the funds to fill. For me it would make a fantastic dedicated bunny gun but the lack of supply of both rifles and ammo in the UK is a big concern! Nice cheap ammo though if you can find it, and really not that different to HMR!

[sambu13]

How does the machII differ in terms of noise with a moderator?

[monkeymagic1969]

How does the machII differ in terms of noise with a moderator?

Slightly quieter than a HMR - but still louder than a moderated .22 rimfire.

[casts_by_fly]

The difference between them? About 60 yards. The HMR and Mach 2 shoot the same bullet. The M2 is 2100 at the muzzle, the HMR is 2100 at ~60 yards. Whatever you can do with the M2 you can do with the HMR, only 60 yards further. If the HMR is a 150 yard gun for your needs, the M2 is a 90 yard gun.

 

HMR is more common, the M2 is a bit cheaper to shoot.

 

Thanks

Rick

[Dekers]

Slightly quieter than a HMR - but still louder than a moderated .22 rimfire.

 

Most would find the noise difference difficult to tell, both loud, even with a moderator, and BOTH a lot louder than a .22lr with subs.

 

There can be no grounds for buying a Mach II because it is quieter than a HMR!

[Dekers]

The difference between them? About 60 yards. The HMR and Mach 2 shoot the same bullet. The M2 is 2100 at the muzzle, the HMR is 2100 at ~60 yards. Whatever you can do with the M2 you can do with the HMR, only 60 yards further. If the HMR is a 150 yard gun for your needs, the M2 is a 90 yard gun.

 

HMR is more common, the M2 is a bit cheaper to shoot.

 

Thanks

Rick

 

 

Right..I'm going to be honest with you (eat your heart out Simon C)..the MachII is virtually dead in the water, gun sales and subsequent ammo sales have been slow to say the least.

 

It does have a use, but when compared to the existing .22lr, .17HMR and .22WMR (and the ammo varieties available for that lot) it's uses are VERY VERY limited.

 

The only thing it has going for it is ammo price, (and that is only cheap because nobody is buying the stuff, trust me, if they took off the ammo price would go through the roof), it is nothing close to the HMR in trajectory, power, range, and damn nearly as noisy, the WMR hits dramatically harder and still has an excellent trajectory in comparison and it you want a cheap, quiet bunny basher the .22lr with subs knocks spots off it...so you are left with the question..."What is the Mach II good at?".

 

Please don't get me wrong. I am not slagging it off, and it most certainly will have a place, but frankly I don't know what for....probably if you want a "bit more" than a .22lr but can't afford the ammo for the HMR. Hardly a basis for calibre selection!!!

 

Please help me out here anyone who owns one...just what is it that you use this for, and what makes it more appropriate that the other 3 basic rimfires??

 

Cheers

[casts_by_fly]

dekers,

 

I've said many times that i this country that they don't have a practical use. The 22 with subs is quieter and good for 60-70 yards. The HMR is good out to 125-150. The M2 might be quieter than an HMR, but with a mod they are the same. It is cheaper, but if cheap is your game (high volume) then you'll have a 22 anyway. There is no practical use in this country where a 22 or an HMR wouldn't be better.

 

However, in the US you're not limited in the number of guns and 'practical' isn't important. Moderators are non existent. The price difference is even more from an HMR. The M2 has a bit less 'punch' in the noise than an HMR so it is at home in the squirrel woods. An HMR and a 22 sound the same without the mod (most people in the US don't shoot subs) so why not take the extra range (and extra 40 yards or so)?

 

And, the us shooting industry determines what is available here.

 

Thanks

Rick

[macca]

Hi

I have a mach II - preferred it to the hmr, excellent on rabbits and foxes to 125yards, significantly quieter than the hmr. Fits nicelely in my line up as my next gun up is the mach IV. If the mach 2 had been introduced first, Im sure you would find it far more popular today.

Cheers

[Dekers]

Hi

I have a mach II - preferred it to the hmr, excellent on rabbits and foxes to 125yards, significantly quieter than the hmr. Fits nicelely in my line up as my next gun up is the mach IV. If the mach 2 had been introduced first, Im sure you would find it far more popular today.

Cheers

 

 

Can't say I've ever known anyone with a Mach IV before, in fact I can't even remember the last time I even heard about them, can you buy factory ammo at all, or is it all down to home brews??? Remind me, isn't it similar to the Rem 17 or am I getting mixed up??

 

And that bold bit above, on that basis it would be difficult to understand how come the HMR took off so big and creamed the WMR???

 

Cheers

[casts_by_fly]

dekers,

 

The Mach IV is the original 17 Fireball. It is effectively a 221 fireball case (itself a shortened 222) necked down to 17 caliber. The 17 rem fireball and the Mach IV are ballistically identical. The Mach IV is a wildcat only, no factory ammo, which is why you'll not see any new ones being built really.

 

Why did the HMR do well when the WMR hasn't really? The WMR has been around a long time. It has been chambered into a lot of crappy guns. The ammo produced has always been somewhat inconsistent and expensive compared to a 22LR. It didn't have a good niche. The HMR came out with a significantly better trajectory, many raving reviews, and probaby most importantly highly consistent ammo. When the HMR came out MOA accuracy was promised from pretty much any gun and ammo. Most people found that accuracy with no problem. A 22 mag (at the time) would be lucky to hit that accuracy with one brand of ammo let alone anything you put through it. The fact that it was something new and cool didn't hurt either.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[Dekers]

dekers,

 

The Mach IV is the original 17 Fireball. It is effectively a 221 fireball case (itself a shortened 222) necked down to 17 caliber. The 17 rem fireball and the Mach IV are ballistically identical. The Mach IV is a wildcat only, no factory ammo, which is why you'll not see any new ones being built really.

 

Why did the HMR do well when the WMR hasn't really? The WMR has been around a long time. It has been chambered into a lot of crappy guns. The ammo produced has always been somewhat inconsistent and expensive compared to a 22LR. It didn't have a good niche. The HMR came out with a significantly better trajectory, many raving reviews, and probaby most importantly highly consistent ammo. When the HMR came out MOA accuracy was promised from pretty much any gun and ammo. Most people found that accuracy with no problem. A 22 mag (at the time) would be lucky to hit that accuracy with one brand of ammo let alone anything you put through it. The fact that it was something new and cool didn't hurt either.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

 

OK, appreciate that on the Mach IV, but what is it's niche, is this a 300-400 yard crow basher or what, how does it react to a breeze??

 

I'm guessing it's about 4000ft sec, perhaps a bit quicker, but I have very little knowledge of the 17 centrefires!!

 

Just curious!!

 

Cheers...not trying to hi jack this, sorry if it's a little off topic!!

[macca]

Hi,

thanks Rick, explanation of the mach IV is spot on. If I were to buy another rimfire (heaven forbid 6 already) it woud be a good quality 22 HMR. Since the 17hmr was so successful with good quality jacketed projectiles, it has been found that the the 22 hmr with similar quality projectiles is very accurate.

As far as the MK IV/17 Fireball is concerned it is extremely effective against thing far bigger than crows.

Cheers

[Dekers]

Hi,

thanks Rick, explanation of the mach IV is spot on. If I were to buy another rimfire (heaven forbid 6 already) it woud be a good quality 22 HMR. Since the 17hmr was so successful with good quality jacketed projectiles, it has been found that the the 22 hmr with similar quality projectiles is very accurate.

As far as the MK IV/17 Fireball is concerned it is extremely effective against thing far bigger than crows.

Cheers

 

 

Is that another Wildcat or was that a .22WMR??? :look: , and yes, a lot of the current .22WMR is pretty accurate, the Remingtion and Hornady ballistic tips are pretty good but I find mine likes the 30g and 40g CCI stuff as well, so a good choice of ammo!!

 

:look:

[macca]

Appologies, getting my alphabet mixed up - 22 WMR not 22 HMR- should give winchester their due rather than Hornady. Anyway with the machII the 22 magnum would be my next choice .

Cheers