any vets on the forum

[gixer1]

Hi folks,

 

My Black lab who is 5 1/2 years old was losing wieght for a while so I took him to the vets, he turned out to be around 30kgs which was low for him (as he is known to be a muscular brute!) to cut a long story short after alot of blood/stool tests it was discovered he had an unusually high level of bacteria in his gut and the food was passing through without the nessasary nutrients being taken into the body. the vet put him on antibiotics (1 1/2 tablets per day) and a gastro diet which consists of Hills ID prescription diet dried food with 1 can of Hills tinned food mixed through each day, he seems to be fine eating this and has gained 2 1/2kgs in the last 4 weeks when i visited the vets today which is great but....

 

The food costs £73 per 14kg bag and £22 for 12 tins of food which i don't mind doing as he's my faithful friend but it is expensive, does anyone know what is in this food and can it be substituted for something with the same ingredients? the reason I ask is the vet said he would be on this for the foreseable future.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Gixer

 

I have found

[mr lee]

that's a hell of a cost for 14kg's. Can you not go direct and bypass your local store for it?

[gixer1]

that's a hell of a cost for 14kg's. Can you not go direct and bypass your local store for it?

 

 

Looked into that and the cheapest i can find it is £53 a bag and £19 for the tins on the net.

[al4x]

Wonder if the antibiotics have done the job of reducing the bacteria level so the food can do its job. Personally I'd try him back on a decent food with added meat rather than pay that. Vets and food manufacturers call these foods prescription but they aren't there is no medication in them its purely the formulation that is made to help certain conditions along with a monster price tag. Vets usually have a pretty much 100% markup on them which you can see from being able to buy it online that much cheaper where that supplier is still making a profit from it. You can see why they are so keen to put dogs and cats on the special diets

[gixer1]

Wonder if the antibiotics have done the job of reducing the bacteria level so the food can do its job. Personally I'd try him back on a decent food with added meat rather than pay that. Vets and food manufacturers call these foods prescription but they aren't there is no medication in them its purely the formulation that is made to help certain conditions along with a monster price tag. Vets usually have a pretty much 100% markup on them which you can see from being able to buy it online that much cheaper where that supplier is still making a profit from it. You can see why they are so keen to put dogs and cats on the special diets

 

 

Alex,

 

The Vet did say the prices are a rip off and to get it on the net (it's not her practice) but that the food was a bit lighter on him so it would be worth keeping him on it until after the tablets are finished (and she did say for the foreseeable future) I'm pretty sure there would be a "chudleys" or such like equivelant with the same ingredients i could try him on that would be cheaper but I don't want to risk making my dog sick without some educated advice..

 

Regards,

 

Gixer.

[al4x]

I'd say hit google hard and try and learn as much as you can and take an educated punt from there

[gixer1]

I'd say hit google hard and try and learn as much as you can and take an educated punt from there

 

 

Alex, I have had a look but there doesn't seem to be an ingredients listing the best i found was this...

 

http://www.nutrecare.co.uk/prod6.asp?prod_...g=&offset=#

 

Regards,

 

Gixer

[al4x]

has yours got any of the symptoms such as diarrhea or vomiting or is he just loosing weight?

[benbaikal]

have you tried your dog with a bit of boiled chicken and rice and some natural yogurt .make sure you take the bones out of the chicken

[CharlieT]

Any of the major feed manufacturers such as Chudley, James Wellbeloved etc will have nutritionists you can speak to on the phone who will advise you on which of their products, if any, would be suitable for your dog.

 

Hills website lists the ingredients of it's prescription feeds and having looked at that it seems to me that there is nothing "special" in the feed that other makers can't match at a quarter of the price. I would look at James Wellbeloved's site and check out the ingredients of their products. Say something like the lamb or turkey with rice kibble.

 

Everyone will have their own favourite maker, however they all make good products so I base my choice on price and ingredients.

 

If it was my dog I would be of the view that the antibiotics are doing their job and what is now required is a easily digested feed that is calming on the dogs gut. I would try James Wellbeloved turkey and rice kibble.

 

Perhaps I should say that I have a degree in animal nutrition so hope I 'aint talking out of my rear end.

 

Charlie

[Starman]

Would introducing some friendly bacteria help with something like this? Yakult? Sounds daft but it is a serious question.

[decoyboy]

hope you don't mind but can i suggest you try the nobs forum at www.nobs.org.uk . there are some very knowledgable people on there , one of which is vicki payne the vet from sporting shooter magazine . she is always willing to answer your questions .

[partridge60]

hope you don't mind but can i suggest you try the nobs forum at www.nobs.org.uk . there are some very knowledgable people on there , one of which is vicki payne the vet from sporting shooter magazine . she is always willing to answer your questions .

Trouble with forums is that the vet or person cannot examine the dog so any advice will be very generalised.

This guy has done the right thing and taken HIS dog to HIS vet - the advice given is better than any forum!!

I would try an ordinary quality food and see what happens, or ask the vet for further advice. My vets are quite happy to talk about any case on the phone- and dont charge for that service- probably they recoup the costs another time.

[vulpicide]

I feed Barf Ive a sneaky feeling dogs were designed to eat raw food.

[apache]

I feed Barf Ive a sneaky feeling dogs were designed to eat raw food.

As were people, what's your point?

[andrew flavell]

I also feed barf. I wouldn't advise either way. Read the literature and make up your own mind. Each to there own.

[nipper]

You have to get something to knock out some of the bacteria in his gut.

Additives such as cider vinegar , Garlic , etc keep the gut slightly acid and bacteria dont like that .

Then boost with good bacteria , natural yogurt ,Yakult etc to maintain the balance .

 

The other two dogs are doing just fine on the food ,So the only thing you have to sort is Buddy,s gut ?

 

By the way folks !!

This dog could pull a jumbo jet to take off speed without sweating !!!!

[andrew flavell]

When my weimerana had collitus the vet advised chappie original..... Before anyone says" oh my god" Its made from fish and soya. So nothing to be allergic to or irritate the gut. Worked for him.....

apparently chronic collitus can cause food to pass through without digestion occuring. Ive no reason to not believe my vet.

He's probably prescribed hills to limit irritants or allergies to certain food types. Other option is expensive tests to see what hes allergic to. Picking food rubbish up off the floor wont help if hes greedy like my Lab.

Edited July 11, 2010 by andrew flavell

[apache]

When my weimerana had collitus the vet advised chappie original..... Before anyone says" oh my god" Its made from fish and soya. So nothing to be allergic to or irritate the gut. Worked for him.....

Chappie does suit some dogs very well - high in fibre. Gave my dog bad wind. Really bad! She gets Eukanuba now

[andrew flavell]

nice!

Bet thats lovely

Its difficult to find something that suits all.

My lab had ear problems until I started feeding Barf. But Barf has its risks too.

Having lost one dog to bloat. He was only 6. I moved across to reduce the risk. This only effects wide chested breeds.

Thing is, if it aint broke dont fix it.

I feed natural but respect the vets advise..........

We all have an opinion. Wish I knew who was right.

[apache]

nice!

Bet thats lovely

Its difficult to find something that suits all.

My lab had ear problems until I started feeding Barf. But Barf has its risks too.

Having lost one dog to bloat. He was only 6. I moved across to reduce the risk. This only effects wide chested breeds.

Thing is, if it aint broke dont fix it.

I feed natural but respect the vets advise..........

We all have an opinion. Wish I knew who was right.

So do I!

 

It's one thing saying that raw food is what they ate in nature, but then dogs only lived a few years. One of the reasons dog live longer is due to better diets. Pet food has come on a huge way even in the last 20 years. I can vouch for some of the more expensive 'prescription' foods treating specific conditions. Some dogs would genuinely be dead if feed raw meat/conventional food rather than the prescription foods. Cases such as digestive problems, kidney, liver and skin spring to mind.

 

We use the Iams/Eukanuba prescription diets at the practice and I have seen the good they do, so I feed my dog Eukanuba (conventional). She does well on it and her irritated skin has calmed down since we got her.

 

These foods seem expensive but put a value on the dog?

[andrew flavell]

Fair play. My only concern is the people doing the research,

I always think are their hidden agendas?

I know its a bit of a hot topic. Escpecially in the weimerana forums etc.

I guess only time will tell.

The only thing I cant understand is why noone is doing research on barf feeding long term. Or are they???

I know there is a vet in north Yorks performs seminars in the subject. Im going to try get on one next time its on.

Anyway were off topic. Apologies!

[apache]

The only thing I cant understand is why noone is doing research on barf feeding long term. Or are they???

Simple - there's no money in it.

 

The feed companies [like drug companies] have a vested interest in showing their product works.

[dooseydog]

Hi folks,

 

My Black lab who is 5 1/2 years old was losing wieght for a while so I took him to the vets, he turned out to be around 30kgs which was low for him (as he is known to be a muscular brute!) to cut a long story short after alot of blood/stool tests it was discovered he had an unusually high level of bacteria in his gut and the food was passing through without the nessasary nutrients being taken into the body. the vet put him on antibiotics (1 1/2 tablets per day) and a gastro diet which consists of Hills ID prescription diet dried food with 1 can of Hills tinned food mixed through each day, he seems to be fine eating this and has gained 2 1/2kgs in the last 4 weeks when i visited the vets today which is great but....

 

The food costs £73 per 14kg bag and £22 for 12 tins of food which i don't mind doing as he's my faithful friend but it is expensive, does anyone know what is in this food and can it be substituted for something with the same ingredients? the reason I ask is the vet said he would be on this for the foreseable future.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Gixer

 

I have found

 

Having only posted to get help about guns felt a bit of a user rather than a contributor so hope following helps your lab and I redress balance in contributing something.We have a Sharpei and two British Bulldogs, the Sharpei as with many of its breed has little or no immune system, manifesting itself in chronic skin infections and poor digestion. We googled, we sought advice of many vets, tried every combination of dog food available with absolutely nil success. Our sharpei also has the incurable and often fatal "sharpei fever" , as the bouts of this became more frequent and knowing we had to try and get his gastric and renal system as strong as we could , mainly to give him some defence, we were recommended our present vets. Previously with weight loss and diarrhoea it was anti-biotics and Hill's ID , expense was not the issue , the practicalities in sourcing it and having separate food to the Bulldogs , being in for delivery etc etc were. 3 years ago we went to this vet who advised, Chappie and Waitrose Adult dog mixer , teaspoon of bran flakes in morning and a teaspoon of live yoghurt. That was three years ago , my Sharpei is my avatar, Bulldogs are 10 and 9 respectively and are fit as fiddles, our vets visits are down to once every 6 weeks as opposed to once a week.From asking the vet why this diet, the answers are as follows;

 

Chappie - fish and soya , virtually hypo-allergenic( even expensive premium canned foods are heavily processed and contain preservatives)

 

Waitrose Mixer - wholemeal mixer with good fibre content and contains pre-biotic in the form of fructo - oligosaccarides

 

Bran - fibre for gut and making stools harder , additionally reduces anal gland infection / filling of

 

Live Yoghurt - introduces healthy bacteria into gut

 

Warnings - yoghurt can cause a reaction if dog is lactose intolerant

 

teaching you to suck eggs - if moving to another diet , do so gradually , as another poster put, bloat can be fatal and moving from one meal on one diet to another meal on another diet , without some transition is believed to be a contributory factor in causing bloat

 

lastly , I would not put anything to our dogs without a vets thoughts or advice , the above has worked for our dogs brilliantly , the above came from our vet, so perhaps, if this is an alternative for your lab, please qualify with your vet its applicability to your lab .

 

hope your lab returns to the rudest of health soon

 

best regards

 

james

[rodp]

Bones Pet & Animal Feeds Supplies

The Industrial Estate

Hatherleigh

Okehampton

Devon

EX20 3LP

 

Give these a try for bulk purchase when you have decided which food to go with. I was going to buy a pallet of kibble off them and the price was great, pity I can't remember which kibble and how much

 

Didn't bother in the end as storage would have been a nuisance.