BountyHunter Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Hi We are looking at pups at the moment as we want a decent gundog in the future. We were looking at getting an older dog as we work during the day and he will be kept outside in a kennel. A local farmer has just had pups, well his bitch has, and they are from working parents. Is it bad form / cruel to leave a puppy alone all day or does it build character? BH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckfast d Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 depends on what you mean all day, would you not think of two puppies aleast there will be a bit of company as two is better than one (well that's what i keep telling her indoors ) .. a good walk in the morning then is what it would need and at night when you come home,,, but as i said before mate depends on what your all day is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Our day is leaving the house at about 8:30 and getting back about 5:30. I have a spare half hour in the morning to excersize him and all evening. We live on a farm so there is plenty of space for him to explore when we go out. I have a kennel with an outside run. Two is a great idea but the Mrs doesn't think so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Springers need a lot of exercise and have limitless stamina and even more enthusiasm. they do settle very well in solitary but I would never keep one of my dogs on its own for that length of time without a companion its just not fair on a dog thats bred to work, work and work again. If I couldnt devote the time to it I wouldnt even think about getting one. Sorry but thats the way it is. FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 FM - Fair comment, that is kind of what I was asking, how many people in this day and age have lifestyles that allow them to spend 24/7 working with their dogs though - only gamekeepers and the such surely? BH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppythedog Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I have to agree with Mike on this one, springers get bored very quickly, they thrive on social contact whether it be with other dogs or humans so I would suggest you wait until your lifestyle allows you to spend more time with the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Hmm OK, Fair comments. The lifestyle will never be that open. Ta BH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Hi, My opinion (for what its worth) I have a 7 month old springer pup who is outside in a run form 8.00AM until 5.30 PM and is quite content, He is kept indoors at night. He is always pleased to see you when you get home yet makes no fuss during the day. He has always got food water and a couple of toys to chew. I take him for a mile or so walk in the morning and then a good 3-4 miles in the evening. While springers are full of energy they will just take themselves off and lay down. Whilst I do not know your situation I agree that noone has the time to spend 24/7 with their dog. I do take mine with me if I can and try to spend as much time with him at weekends as possible. I would thoroughly recomend a springer as they are great pets as well as working tirelessly to please all the time. Cheers Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Thanks for the reply Martin, did you have the pup from weaned? (if that makes sense) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 (edited) Yes I did, I had the pup from 8 weeks old and apart from the first couple of nights when he cried a lot he has been fine ever since. I would thoroughly recomend it especially with living on a farm. He was kept indoors during the day at first but this was more due to an eye and ear infection that he had picked up from the breeders house. Cheers Martin Edited October 31, 2005 by martincavie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Thats fine if you can run the dog 1 mile am, 3-4 pm... daily and do this religiously most days a week. I bet after the novelty wears off you will be too knackered to get out each night in the foul weather and just slump down in a comfy chair and poor old Springer wont be given a second thought. Shut your self up in a kennel all day with just a silver water bowl and some galvanised weld mesh to look at and you would be pleased to see anyone after 9 hour solitary. Dont insult the dogs intelligence by giving it some toys its not a bloody budgie. Search your heart and tell me I am wrong.... but I say again if you cant devote the time a Springer needs then consider another more sedate breed for a pet. My good friend Dave sees 4 or 5 working dogs a month at the rescue centre from people who just dont realise what they are taking on. Cheers. FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 In fairness, its probably not ideal to leave any dog completely alone, for over 8 hours a day. Isn't there someone available to give them a short walk at lunchtime, to break up the day ? My Wife use to walk our Springer at midday and always let her out of the run, if she was in the garden for any reasonable time (hanging out washing, mowing the lawns etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 The landlord has 3 springers, his wife offered to do the walking in the afternoons during the winter months when the night are drawn in as she has to excersize theirs anyway, in return they thought I might return the favour when they go away in the summer. I don't have an issue with the exercise thing, I am not one to slump in front of the telly, I am always on the go and if I am not walking the fields with my gun I am walking the beaches looking at the surf etc. What worries me is that everything is catered for whilst we live here and the forseable future has us staying put, but that is the thing about the future it rarely turns out as planned. I certainly want a working dog, not a pet - I originally wanted a Vizsla but taliking with the landlord they are a bit on the big side and just a pretty, trendy dog - he recommended the springer. If I got two would that be less cruel? It is the same amount of walking but twice the cost etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Cost has to be a consideration, one good dog can be expensive, without even considering emergencies. Two dogs obviously, would be twice as expensive. If I was as undecided as you are, I would wait until next Spring at least, before making a decision. You might also consider a part, or fully trained adult dog, initially more expensive, but slightly lower "maintenace" than a pup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 OK I accept that I am obviously cruel and so is everyone I know and all the profeesional people who train and run trialling dogs that I know, Not to mention all those people who write books on the subject. The dog is not shut in, He is in a large run and has a kennel to sleep in. I am far from insulting the dogs inteeligence by leaving chew toys for him, He has been cutting new teeth. While I accept that it is my first dog, I have far from taken on ownership lightly and will do anything to make sure he is content, looked after and healthy. I am not someone who has bought a dog for the "novelty" value. and as for foul weather you have obviously never been wildfowling and maybe you should change your name to "fine weather fisherman mike" Don't insult my intelligence or commitment to my dog, I have done everything possible for the good welfare of my pup. Both before getting him and certainly after MC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 martin,i dont think fm`s reply was a personal attack on you mate,just an observation.i have a two year old lab that comes to work with me when she can,when she cant she stays at home. i walk her for at least an hour every night when she has been home wether its p*ssing down or not.does us both good to be out in the horrible stuff.does her staying in hurt her ? nope.i get up way too early for work (dont start the van til half 8) so i walk the dog. fm wasnt saying you wouldnt,nor doubting your integrity,just offering his opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 and as for foul weather you have obviously never been wildfowling and maybe you should change your name to "fine weather fisherman mike" Been There, done that, ate the duck, and now wear the tea shirt.... Me go out in the wind and rain up to my neck in Muck..... No thanks Ill sit in front of the warm fire with my Dogs at my feet sipping a single malt and waiting for Summer to arrive.... Ive been wild fowling more times than youve had hot dinners mate... Funny thing is the best bags have always been when the weather was fair!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Ive been wild fowling more times than youve had hot dinners mate... Well I bow down to your greatness, I have a hot dinner most nights, you obviously spend a lot of time on the foreshore. Please do not even start to think you know what is best for my dog as you don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted November 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 C'mon guys don't lets let this discussion deteriorate, Martin - thanks for your words, I don't think FM was attacking you directly either, it's his opinion. I have to admit that I didn't think anything of the dog being particularly lonely and hence not cruel to leave it during the day, as long as you do walk it morning and evening and give it some company when you are at home. In fact I read an excellent thread on another shooting forum which suggested that the dog appreciates its contact more and is therefore more responsive to training if it is allowed some time to itself. I am not a doggy psycologist(sp?) so I can't form an opinion which is why I asked the question i the first place. BH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Please do not even start to think you know what is best for my dog as you don't Yawn yawn Yawn heard it all before.... see you down the rescue centre in 6 months time If your dogs happy 8 hour per day on his own and you can live with yourself then fine... I wasnt attacking you personally.. its just a fact of life that many see the gun dog as the Countryside fashion accessory.. thus condemning it to a life of misery. Just want to make sure that Bounty hunter knows what hes letting himself in for. Im by no means an expert but have kept 4 springers 2 cockers and my father and Grandfather 12 dogs before me so id like to think id know a little bit about whats good for them. Cheers. FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted November 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Please let it go FM. I appreciate both sets of opinion equally, Mike I guess you have a lifestyle that allows you more time with your dogs, Martin doesn't but that doesn't mean that he hasn't got as much regard for his dogs welfare. Speaking personally I want a dog to retrieve for me, not a house pet and not an accessory. Both my son and I love being outdoors, we both would give a dog as much love as it could handle but we are just out at work / shcool all day. I think that the suggestion of getting more mature dog seems wise, Mike how do you feel about that - don't they come with built in issues? BH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 There is no way I will be at the rescue centre in 6 months time, unless it is to pick a dog and offer it a good home. I accept that it is your opinion that a dog should not be left on its own, thats where we differ. As I have said in earlier posts I looked long and hard into getting a dog and what it would entail. That included speaking to the local RSPCA office who were only too delighted to think the the pup would have his own living space and not be shut in a house. They had no problem with him being left. I would never consider a dog or any other animal to be a fashion accessory, mine will be a trained gundog used for retreiving and picking up. As also perviously said he get's all the attention he could want and when he doesn't want any he will go off and lay down on his own. BH, if you seriously want a dog and are prepared for evry eventualality then go ahead and get one. You won't regret it, but if you are in any doubt don't do it until you are sure. Cheers Guys MC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted November 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Thanks Martin, Mike and others, plenty of food for thought there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country_est Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Not to contracdict people or cause any further outbreaks of hostilities, this is MY Personal experiance. I also live a "normal" working life, and currently have 2 Labs. The eldest is 14yrs 6months old, and I have had her since 8 weeks. She was kept in a kennel with my then retired springer during the day and slept outside on her own. Both dog left during the day 4-5 days a week, occasionaly allowing for working from home ect ect. No probs with that. My "new" dog was a return to breeder as the owners couldn't cope and they also worked but had a "paid" dog walker to take him out. When I got him he was kept in a kennel at the breeders and left in there 20hrs a day as a pup. When I got him he was OK in the run but got very upset if caught in a room with the door closed. After a bit of work and time he is now fine, and lives outside when there is nobody in the house, and is allowed in when we are home. I see no probs with leaving a dog in a large enuf run and kennel during the day. For a small pup it may be advantageous to try and get home to walk him during the day if ***. Just me mad ramblings on the subject. Trev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted November 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Cheers Trev This is where I find myself thinking that it would be OK, Mary - the landlady, offered to walk my dog with hers in the afternoon - so it wouldn't be alone all day every day. BH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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