Pigeon Guides " Maybe a bit Greedy????"

[Davy T]

Hi ....Not sure if this is in the correct category but here goes.....Is it common for pigeon guides to charge full price even if you only shoot a half dozen pigeons???....my nephew was shooting yesterday with a well known guide here in scotland and had somethin in the region of 20 odd pigeon and his mate shot 5 or 6 ....the guide was paid £160 which from what they said was £40 short as they felt they had been let down...he knows and his mate knows they are wild birds and are unpredictable however they felt or at least his mate felt that he had been hard done by for payin £80 for 5 or 6 birds he thought he may have got another day and that his day yesterday would be "written off" so to speak......Now i have shot geese with the same guides and the last time myself and my mate shot 2 geese out of the one and only skein which came to our decoys and were charged the full amount of £75 a gun...i paid the money but only because i had shot with them a few times before and had some pretty decent flights so i turned a blind eye but surely you would think that they could even have charged enough money for travel costs and arranged somethin for you later in the season.....your opinions are appreciated....cheers Davy

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

Hard one to call I am no fan of pigeon guides but they have to make a living be it a good bag or not it still does not remove there cost of the day if you shoot hundreds or one bird.

 

All can say is if your boss said we have had a quite week I am only going to give half your wage what would you say.

 

Regards OTH

[Markio]

Hard one to call I am no fan of pigeon guides but they have to make a living be it a good bag or not it still does not remove there cost of the day if you shoot hundreds or one bird.

 

All can say is if your boss said we have had a quite week I am only going to give half your wage what would you say.

 

Regards OTH

 

Quite, and after all they are wild birds. If the guide provided you with a service which is to reccy, setup, move you about if required and do their best to makes a day of it for you then i would say that maybe still charging full price is fair.

 

And for the record, i have not paid for a guided pigeon day, for the same reason that you could pay out and not really have much of a day at all, it's a risk that i personally assumed came with the territory and one that i can't afford to take.

[Yorkshire Wildfowler]

If you had shot 400 pigeons would you have offered the Guide a extra £50 for a good day Dont think so pay your money and take your chance

[Harnser]

I think you are being unreasonable . If you want to pay a guide for taking you out then you have to take your chance . I personally wouldnt pay to go pigeon shooting ,but then I do have some very good connections in the local farming community . maybe you should be looking to find your own farms to shoot over . A day out shooting should not be judged on how many birds you kill .

 

Harnser .

Edited April 4, 2010 by Harnser

[sako751sg]

As has been said,you pays your money and takes your chance.No fan of guides at all,but the price is there,and unless a clause for a **** day is in place,there should be any comeback.Would never think of paying,esp for cushies,as most farmers are glad for them to be shot.

[M ROBSON]

DavyT,

 

I don't mind letting people know that the guide was me, I have nothing to hide.

 

Firstly, I guide people out shooting, they pay me for my service. The time and travel during recconaisance, Travel on the day, rent for the land, use of my equipment, liability insurance (very expensive!!), all the overheads of running the business and vehicles, and for my knowledge of the quarry and land we are shooting on.

 

This should produce a good days sport but please don't get confused between good service and a good days sport. I can put my hand on my heart and say over the 4 years I have been doing this job I have never given a client poor service. Some have had poor days shooting and that will never change, you can't have a good day every day!

 

As for me being greedy? I make £4000pa LESS than I did 4 years ago when I was in full time employment as an equipment technician. But then there is more to life than money, I'm my own boss and I'm doing a job I enjoy (most of the time!). I meet some great people, but then also there are folk from the other end of the spectrum. I've had several people give me tips at the end of a poor days shooting simply because I've tried my hardest for them.

 

On Friday I had a pair of shooters out with me, it was perfect weather and they shot 258. These 2 guns also shot with us on Saturday, with your nephew and his friend and the shooting was also poor for them, 1 shot 34 and the other 13.

Now the work I did on Friday was less than Saturday, when the shooting is good I don't have to go looking for more birds or move guns onto another field. I gave your friend a discount because the birds didn't play ball, I took a 25% (after I paid for the field) paycut and did more work! Greedy?

 

It was a strange day on Saturday, each field we went to had several hundred birds at them. The ground was saturated from overnight rain and we had loud thunder in the afternoon, maybe this had some effect on the birds movements? They just weren't flying, no "traffic" at all. I moved your friend, after an hour of driving round to find him a spot, but the 400+ birds there didn't play ball either. Now your nephew was happy enough with his day, in his words he fired "over 75 shots", I certainly saw him miss several well decoyed birds. But he has only had his licence since October and he didn't seem to be bothered. Friends of his were with me on the same estate last Saturday, the last time this area was shot, and they had a good days sport.

 

So, after driving round on Friday to find birds, setting the guns out on Saturday, checking up on them and finding more spots to move to, then offering to take a 25% pay cut because things didn't work out and your friend still wasn't happy. As he drove off down the road with his new shiney new Range Rover Vogue with private plates, I couldn't help but think I'm in the wrong job!!! But then I remember the good times.

 

Mark.

[sako751sg]

DavyT,

 

I don't mind letting people know that the guide was me, I have nothing to hide.

 

Firstly, I guide people out shooting, they pay me for my service. The time and travel during recconaisance, Travel on the day, rent for the land, use of my equipment, liability insurance (very expensive!!), all the overheads of running the business and vehicles, and for my knowledge of the quarry and land we are shooting on.

 

This should produce a good days sport but please don't get confused between good service and a good days sport. I can put my hand on my heart and say over the 4 years I have been doing this job I have never given a client poor service. Some have had poor days shooting and that will never change, you can't have a good day every day!

 

As for me being greedy? I make £4000pa LESS than I did 4 years ago when I was in full time employment as an equipment technician. But then there is more to life than money, I'm my own boss and I'm doing a job I enjoy (most of the time!). I meet some great people, but then also there are folk from the other end of the spectrum. I've had several people give me tips at the end of a poor days shooting simply because I've tried my hardest for them.

 

On Friday I had a pair of shooters out with me, it was perfect weather and they shot 258. These 2 guns also shot with us on Saturday, with your nephew and his friend and the shooting was also poor for them, 1 shot 34 and the other 13.

Now the work I did on Friday was less than Saturday, when the shooting is good I don't have to go looking for more birds or move guns onto another field. I gave your friend a discount because the birds didn't play ball, I took a 25% (after I paid for the field) paycut and did more work! Greedy?

 

It was a strange day on Saturday, each field we went to had several hundred birds at them. The ground was saturated from overnight rain and we had loud thunder in the afternoon, maybe this had some effect on the birds movements? They just weren't flying, no "traffic" at all. I moved your friend, after an hour of driving round to find him a spot, but the 400+ birds there didn't play ball either. Now your nephew was happy enough with his day, in his words he fired "over 75 shots", I certainly saw him miss several well decoyed birds. But he has only had his licence since October and he didn't seem to be bothered. Friends of his were with me on the same estate last Saturday, the last time this area was shot, and they had a good days sport.

 

So, after driving round on Friday to find birds, setting the guns out on Saturday, checking up on them and finding more spots to move to, then offering to take a 25% pay cut because things didn't work out and your friend still wasn't happy. As he drove off down the road with his new shiney new Range Rover Vogue with private plates, I couldn't help but think I'm in the wrong job!!! But then I remember the good times.

 

Mark.

 

 

Well put fella,and always two sides to a story.Having fired 75+ should be ok in anyones book.Still not keen on guides though ,but our local one is the biggest steaming pile of dog **** you can imagine,x5.

[Bluebarrels]

Well put fella,and always two sides to a story.Having fired 75+ should be ok in anyones book.Still not keen on guides though ,but our local one is the biggest steaming pile of dog **** you can imagine,x5.

 

[PaulABF]

DavyT,

 

I don't mind letting people know that the guide was me, I have nothing to hide. (snipped for brevity)

 

 

Mark.

 

A well structured reply there Mark. Everyone has one of those days - it's called nature.

[M ROBSON]

Sako,

 

Still not keen on guides though

 

 

 

I wasn't either when I was just a regular shooter. My dad was running this business and I said I would never take over.

 

But then I thought about how I would work as a guide and do things.

 

I would ask you the question, what kind of guide would you be, given the chance?

 

Much better than your local guy I would guess.

 

Cheers,

Mark.

Edited April 4, 2010 by M ROBSON

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

Mark

 

Well done on your well mannered reply as I know some guides would take offence to the subject .

 

Kepp up the good work and good customer service.

 

Not a fan of guides but I think your one of rare geninue guides IMO.

 

Kind regards OTH

[Cranfield]

Mark's reply is spot on and we have had enough posts on here praising his Guiding service over the years to know he is a top man.

 

Whenever wild creatures are involved in a hunt, nothing can be guaranteed, whether its shooting or fishing.

The Fishing Charter Skipper takes you to the best spots, tries his best, but if the fish aren't biting, you don't get a refund.

If you do enough Guiding Trips it all balances out in the end.

[M ROBSON]

Thankyou.

[Bluebarrels]

Pay your money and take your chances Guaranteed pigeon bags arent for sportsmen BB

Edited April 4, 2010 by Bluebarrels

[mossy835]

well they are a wild bird,they are there or not there,you pay your money and take a chance.

[Davy T]

DavyT,

 

I don't mind letting people know that the guide was me, I have nothing to hide.

 

Firstly, I guide people out shooting, they pay me for my service. The time and travel during recconaisance, Travel on the day, rent for the land, use of my equipment, liability insurance (very expensive!!), all the overheads of running the business and vehicles, and for my knowledge of the quarry and land we are shooting on.

 

This should produce a good days sport but please don't get confused between good service and a good days sport. I can put my hand on my heart and say over the 4 years I have been doing this job I have never given a client poor service. Some have had poor days shooting and that will never change, you can't have a good day every day!

 

As for me being greedy? I make £4000pa LESS than I did 4 years ago when I was in full time employment as an equipment technician. But then there is more to life than money, I'm my own boss and I'm doing a job I enjoy (most of the time!). I meet some great people, but then also there are folk from the other end of the spectrum. I've had several people give me tips at the end of a poor days shooting simply because I've tried my hardest for them.

 

On Friday I had a pair of shooters out with me, it was perfect weather and they shot 258. These 2 guns also shot with us on Saturday, with your nephew and his friend and the shooting was also poor for them, 1 shot 34 and the other 13.

Now the work I did on Friday was less than Saturday, when the shooting is good I don't have to go looking for more birds or move guns onto another field. I gave your friend a discount because the birds didn't play ball, I took a 25% (after I paid for the field) paycut and did more work! Greedy?

 

It was a strange day on Saturday, each field we went to had several hundred birds at them. The ground was saturated from overnight rain and we had loud thunder in the afternoon, maybe this had some effect on the birds movements? They just weren't flying, no "traffic" at all. I moved your friend, after an hour of driving round to find him a spot, but the 400+ birds there didn't play ball either. Now your nephew was happy enough with his day, in his words he fired "over 75 shots", I certainly saw him miss several well decoyed birds. But he has only had his licence since October and he didn't seem to be bothered. Friends of his were with me on the same estate last Saturday, the last time this area was shot, and they had a good days sport.

 

So, after driving round on Friday to find birds, setting the guns out on Saturday, checking up on them and finding more spots to move to, then offering to take a 25% pay cut because things didn't work out and your friend still wasn't happy. As he drove off down the road with his new shiney new Range Rover Vogue with private plates, I couldn't help but think I'm in the wrong job!!! But then I remember the good times.

 

Mark.

 

Hi Mark ..

Nobody is havin a go or doubtin your ability at what you do ....i said also "maybe a bit greedy" not that you were being greedy i was merely meaning all guides overall and askin what peoples opinions were on what they thought about guides askin for full payment even if they have had a poor day....now i cant speak for my nephews mate but nowhere in my post did i say that my nephew was that dissappointed .Let down a bit maybe ....and he did say he would liked to have had more birds down ...which of course was down to him not shooting to well.......he has only been licensed for a few months but has shot with me for the best part of 12- 13 yrs he has even been with me shooting geese with your dad.....I know the other 2 guns which you had with you the week before and they could'nt praise you enough .....so noone is havin a go personally and i did say to him it comes with the territory and that it might even have been him out the day before who shot all them birds....and by the way ...its my nephews mate who has the range rover ....i dont even know the guy to talk to ....cheers Davy

[sako751sg]

Sako,

 

 

 

 

 

I wasn't either when I was just a regular shooter. My dad was running this business and I said I would never take over.

 

But then I thought about how I would work as a guide and do things.

 

I would ask you the question, what kind of guide would you be, given the chance?

 

Much better than your local guy I would guess.

 

Cheers,

Mark.

 

 

I would be much better than him Mark.One instance the fat shape managed to **** me off.I had the shooting of a pond where ducks and geese came in every night.Me and the old fella were in the ditch just as dark was coming down,when fat man came over and asked what we were doing on the ground.Not knowing who he was at the time,i asked if he worked for the farmer,and he replied no,so i just said we have permission.He then wandered about on the edge of the pond,and then went over to his jeep which was on the marching farm,turned it round to face the pond and turned the lights on.He was very close to getting his lights put out.I phoned the farmer later and mentioned the ********** name and was told he had already been told to stay off the ground.Next meeting,same farm but after roe.Fud face has the shooting in a wood marching and again just coming down dark,i downed a buck.I had the knife out and was gralloching,when the muppet came storming up,realised it was me with a knife in my hand,and had a sudden change of heart."Big buck" were his words as he nearly ran past.Inbetween the two times i had followed him home once,and he just sat in the motor and wouldnt get out.Hes the kind that gives guides a bad name,and i dont know one other person local who wouldnt like to see some kind of misfortune occuring to him.Personally,i know he has heart problems,so i live in hope.

[sealine]

I payed for days shooting, I only got 1 pigeon but did not mind they were just not flying !!!!

but i put it down to practice and a learning curve for next time, (field craft etc) granted i only payed half the amount you did, but still enjoyed it just being out for the day. would be no sport if i thought i would get a good bag every time

I plan to go again very soon to the same place.

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

I would be much better than him Mark.One instance the fat shape managed to **** me off.I had the shooting of a pond where ducks and geese came in every night.Me and the old fella were in the ditch just as dark was coming down,when fat man came over and asked what we were doing on the ground.Not knowing who he was at the time,i asked if he worked for the farmer,and he replied no,so i just said we have permission.He then wandered about on the edge of the pond,and then went over to his jeep which was on the marching farm,turned it round to face the pond and turned the lights on.He was very close to getting his lights put out.I phoned the farmer later and mentioned the douchebags name and was told he had already been told to stay off the ground.Next meeting,same farm but after roe.Fud face has the shooting in a wood marching and again just coming down dark,i downed a buck.I had the knife out and was gralloching,when the muppet came storming up,realised it was me with a knife in my hand,and had a sudden change of heart."Big buck" were his words as he nearly ran past.Inbetween the two times i had followed him home once,and he just sat in the motor and wouldnt get out.Hes the kind that gives guides a bad name,and i dont know one other person local who wouldnt like to see some kind of misfortune occuring to him.Personally,i know he has heart problems,so i live in hope.

 

Once had a local pigeon guide no names who turned up at my field drove accross the drilling stopped in the middle of my pattern got out and pick up two birds and shouting dont mind if I have these do you lad.

 

Then put a guy less than 100 yards away using my two birds for the whirly and then when to woods a mile behind and shot the hell out the birds the woods has never recovered and the birds are still wary two years on.

 

I only found out who he was this year and he no longer shoots the ground as the farmer lease expried and was not renewed due to this guides actions on the ground that was my last day on that land as I dont share with this type of shooter.

 

I have now regained the sole shooting rights as the landowner has aways had a strict no sundays policy which the guide did not do.

 

Regards OTH

[verminator69]

DavyT,

 

I don't mind letting people know that the guide was me, I have nothing to hide.

 

Firstly, I guide people out shooting, they pay me for my service. The time and travel during recconaisance, Travel on the day, rent for the land, use of my equipment, liability insurance (very expensive!!), all the overheads of running the business and vehicles, and for my knowledge of the quarry and land we are shooting on.

 

This should produce a good days sport but please don't get confused between good service and a good days sport. I can put my hand on my heart and say over the 4 years I have been doing this job I have never given a client poor service. Some have had poor days shooting and that will never change, you can't have a good day every day!

 

As for me being greedy? I make £4000pa LESS than I did 4 years ago when I was in full time employment as an equipment technician. But then there is more to life than money, I'm my own boss and I'm doing a job I enjoy (most of the time!). I meet some great people, but then also there are folk from the other end of the spectrum. I've had several people give me tips at the end of a poor days shooting simply because I've tried my hardest for them.

 

On Friday I had a pair of shooters out with me, it was perfect weather and they shot 258. These 2 guns also shot with us on Saturday, with your nephew and his friend and the shooting was also poor for them, 1 shot 34 and the other 13.

Now the work I did on Friday was less than Saturday, when the shooting is good I don't have to go looking for more birds or move guns onto another field. I gave your friend a discount because the birds didn't play ball, I took a 25% (after I paid for the field) paycut and did more work! Greedy?

 

It was a strange day on Saturday, each field we went to had several hundred birds at them. The ground was saturated from overnight rain and we had loud thunder in the afternoon, maybe this had some effect on the birds movements? They just weren't flying, no "traffic" at all. I moved your friend, after an hour of driving round to find him a spot, but the 400+ birds there didn't play ball either. Now your nephew was happy enough with his day, in his words he fired "over 75 shots", I certainly saw him miss several well decoyed birds. But he has only had his licence since October and he didn't seem to be bothered. Friends of his were with me on the same estate last Saturday, the last time this area was shot, and they had a good days sport.

 

So, after driving round on Friday to find birds, setting the guns out on Saturday, checking up on them and finding more spots to move to, then offering to take a 25% pay cut because things didn't work out and your friend still wasn't happy. As he drove off down the road with his new shiney new Range Rover Vogue with private plates, I couldn't help but think I'm in the wrong job!!! But then I remember the good times.

 

Mark.

 

 

 

 

 

Mark good response Always two sides to a storey pays your money take your chances

[cocker3]

well done mark good response personaly i dont have a problem with guides some people cant get decoying or dont have good number of birds where they live so it gives them a chance to have a go and learn from a pro. yeh there are some rouges out there but as cranfield said mark has good feed back as before would your nephew and pal have paid mark more if he had got them 300+and 75 shots is still a good days sport well it is for me any way

Edited April 5, 2010 by cocker3

[M ROBSON]

DavyT,

 

No problem, nothing personal, I'm just adding my thoughts to the debate :o

 

I know the other 2 guns which you had with you the week before and they could'nt praise you enough .....

 

This backs up exactly what I am saying. The week before was a totally different day, the birds were flighting well and feeding on various different fields throughout the same area we were on this Saturday. It was an easy day for me.

 

But the same area this week, with the same number of birds but this time in a totally different mood, results in a poor days shooting. I'm then busy driving round and moving guns to try and get them some sport. Unfortunately some folk only judge your effort by whats laying on the floor at the end of the day!

 

One group go away beaming and the other think your hopeless. :o

 

Do you think it's fair to work more, run around burning more diesel, moving guns about, offering to accept a pay cut for something you can't help and the client still isn't happy?

 

At the end of the day I'vs still got a wife, 2 kids and a mortgage ...................even after a bad days sport.

 

Mark.

[kevinz3]

hi all

i shot with mark robson end of march, with a friend , and i can say he was very very good at the service he supplies, the weather was terrible and he worked hard to get pigeons for us to shoot and maybe being greedy is farther from the truth with this guy, i found the day very reasonable indeed and will be back soon and would be happy to tell anybody wanting to use him.

[proTOM1]

Like said you get the good days and you get the bad days . I have been a pigeon guide for just over 2 years and like all guides have good and some bad days its sometimes the way it is and its never through lack of trying . As for being a bit greedy not at all most people take home at least 40 quid a day at the bare min so if your charging 100 pounds what about the rest , fuel is the biggest cost i tend to use a tank every 3 days when out looking and checking then there is wear to the gear that is used plus all my farmers now take a small cut which i have to think about and so, so being greedy no i dont think so .

,

I know alot on hear do not like guides or would ever pay for a day but luckly there are a few which either like a day some where new have no birds in there area or dont have anywhere to shoot .

 

 

Well done mark for telling your side like ive said you have good and bad days its the way it is as long as you try your hardest there is not alot else you can do

Edited April 5, 2010 by proTOM1