FAC pending, mentor required.

[joke209061]

Ive everything in hand for my mentoring now.

Just to satisfy everyone, ive also contacted BASC asking for thier opinion/help in this matter, the general concensus from online is that its an unlawful condition and can be removed.

So i'll keep you updated.

[joke209061]

Called FEO, who confirmed that mentorship is required for all calibres.

 

Called BASC, who told me this was nonsense. They are now calling the Firearms deptament manager to see if any sense can be seen.

 

Update pending.........

[joke209061]

Right, I have firearms experience, not with these calibres though.

So TVP unwilling to give on the Mentor subject, BASC tried.

But the mentor condition appears to be here to stay.

[blackbird]

Hope you told BASC you will not be wasting your money with them next year get your insurance as I do from the CPSA for 1/2 the price

Edited April 17, 2010 by blackbird

[joke209061]

Hope you told BASC you will not be wasting your money with them next year get your insurance as I do from the CPSA

 

Obviously they havent turned them over, but they did seem genuinely interested and immediately tried to get them to be reasonabl by dropping the condition on the .22 and hmr, they also asked for the mentoring to cover 'any person of experience'.

They told me that they could make a fuss but ultimately they CAN add any condition they like and it would probably go nowhere.

 

I dont know about the CPSA and will look into it, but BASC seem to be available and accessible. £60 odd is a bit steep though.

[Redgum]

I wonder if you would have had a mentoring clause if you had just applied for a .22lr to start with and worked your way up. I would always recommend this approach, I did it this way, .22lr, six months later .17hmr then a month after that an open license on the rimmies. Has anyone on here had to have mentoring on a .22lr yet?

Its a case of trying to run before you can walk, being granted a FAC is the first step but the Firearm dept have no idea if your going to start shooting rooks out of trees regardless of character. I see a thread on here trying to ok shooting in the air, and we wonder why the police want mentoring. Would you want the responsibility of giving someone you hardly know a firearm to walk off into the countryside with, there's more to just being a safe shot, theres the law to.

You would not want me as your mentor as I would have you loading and unloading mags in freezing snow in the middle of the night with no torch and then reciting the whole of the Home offices "guide to police on firearm law" before you could get in your sack.

[Dekers]

I wonder if you would have had a mentoring clause if you had just applied for a .22lr to start with and worked your way up. I would always recommend this approach, I did it this way, .22lr, six months later .17hmr then a month after that an open license on the rimmies. Has anyone on here had to have mentoring on a .22lr yet? Its a case of trying to run before you can walk, being granted a FAC is the first step but the Firearm dept have no idea if your going to start shooting rooks out of trees regardless of character. I see a thread on here trying to ok shooting in the air, and we wonder why the police want mentoring. Would you want the responsibility of giving someone you hardly know a firearm to walk off into the countryside with, there's more to just being a safe shot, theres the law to.

You would not want me as your mentor as I would have you loading and unloading mags in freezing snow in the middle of the night with no torch and then reciting the whole of the Home offices "guide to police on firearm law" before you could get in your sack.

 

 

YES chap...the SAME FEO as for joke209061, I have had 2 seperate and unrelated people approach me for help for the .22lr in the last 6 months from the SAME FEO, and one was, and still is a serving police officer!

 

Both needed mentoring condition or a letter before grant!!

 

The FEO is a p****, makes you wonder what he is paid for if he says NO to everything, until someone else tells him the shooter is OK!!

Edited April 17, 2010 by Dekers

[Redgum]

Well its not a bad thing Dekers, especially if your deciples have little or no experience. Its amazing how many " experienced " FAC holders could do with a bit of instruction. Last year I pulled into a farmers yard after decoying pigeons on new drill to find the farmer shooting doves of the grain silo with a .22lr with stingers. Ok, it was open arable land behind the silos but who knows who was about as footpaths criss cross the land and would it have made any differance to him shooting if we had decided to set up in the fields behind the silo. I pointed out the dangers in the most polite way I could but he had no idea it could be dangerous as it was "only a little rimfire".

[Dekers]

Well its not a bad thing Dekers, especially if your deciples have little or no experience. Its amazing how many " experienced " FAC holders could do with a bit of instruction. Last year I pulled into a farmers yard after decoying pigeons on new drill to find the farmer shooting doves of the grain silo with a .22lr with stingers. Ok, it was open arable land behind the silos but who knows who was about as footpaths criss cross the land and would it have made any differance to him shooting if we had decided to set up in the fields behind the silo. I pointed out the dangers in the most polite way I could but he had no idea it could be dangerous as it was "only a little rimfire".

 

 

There is not arguement about safety or experience or ******, they come in all walks of life....

but where do you get off on that one..mentoring for a .22lr, just where does that appear in the Home Office Guide or any of the Firearms Acts?

 

And just what is it FEO's get paid for then???

 

[Redgum]

10.35 Chief officers of police are empowered

to impose conditions if they think that the

circumstances of the individual case mean

that the condition is necessary to ensure the

effective operation of the firearms controls

and to minimise the risk to public safety.

Forces should note that those conditions

relating to otherwise prohibited firearms and

ammunition such as expanding ammunition

are statutory. The chief officer does not have

discretion to grant a certificate for such

firearms and ammunition beyond the terms

of the statutory exemptions for these items.

 

Maybe here?

[Dekers]

10.35 Chief officers of police are empowered

to impose conditions if they think that the

circumstances of the individual case mean

that the condition is necessary to ensure the

effective operation of the firearms controls

and to minimise the risk to public safety.

Forces should note that those conditions

relating to otherwise prohibited firearms and

ammunition such as expanding ammunition

are statutory. The chief officer does not have

discretion to grant a certificate for such

firearms and ammunition beyond the terms

of the statutory exemptions for these items.

 

Maybe here?

 

Who knows but I remain unconvinced...and that is just the Home Office Firearms Law, Guidance to the Police 2002

 

8 years old and they have apparently not seen fit to start introducing Mentoring/letters for .22lr until recently!!...and still only Thames Valley as far as I know, perhaps someone will advise if this is happening unilaterally, it is also only 1 FEO that I am aware of too!!

 

Not an issue even after Michael Ryan and Thomas Hamilton etc, so what has changed.... FEAR in the mind of FEO??

[albob]

Who knows but I remain unconvinced...and that is just the Home Office Firearms Law, Guidance to the Police 2002

 

8 years old and they have apparently not seen fit to start introducing Mentoring/letters for .22lr until recently!!...and still only Thames Valley as far as I know, perhaps someone will advise if this is happening unilaterally, it is also only 1 FEO that I am aware of too!!

 

Not an issue even after Michael Ryan and Thomas Hamilton etc, so what has changed.... FEAR in the mind of FEO??

 

 

the mentoring on rimfires and centrefires is happening more and more round here.

not had it myself as i could prove rimfire and centrefire use before i ventured into fac.

hearing it more and more and seems to be more so on inexperience of shooting the cal they have applied for.

 

al

[allthegearandnoidea]

YES chap...the SAME FEO as for joke209061, I have had 2 seperate and unrelated people approach me for help for the .22lr in the last 6 months from the SAME FEO, and one was, and still is a serving police officer!

 

Both needed mentoring condition or a letter before grant!!

 

The FEO is a p****, makes you wonder what he is paid for if he says NO to everything, until someone else tells him the shooter is OK!!

 

I don't think it is the feo as I have the same one and he seems like a reasonable bloke. He told me that it was the woman who heads up thames valley firearms department insisting on it and she is a manager with no previous experience with guns prior to being the head of that department.

 

He also told me that he was against the mentoring condition but had no choice as the powers that be were insisting.

Edited April 18, 2010 by allthegearandnoidea

[Redgum]

I'm afraid these are changing times, look at the handgun laws and if my old grandad knew that one day fox hunting would be banned due to cruelty on the fox he would be turning rapidly in his grave. Meat is prepared behind closed doors and slaughter and factory farming doesnt exist. Armed police and helicopters arresting pigeon shooters while inner city gangs of youths gun each other down.

You gotta face it, common sense went out of policing when the village bobby hung up his bicycle clips, we just have to extract the good that we can.

[Dekers]

I don't think it is the feo as I have the same one and he seems like a reasonable bloke. He told me that it was the woman who heads up thames valley firearms department insisting on it and she is a manager with no previous experience with guns prior to being the head of that department.

 

He also told me that he was against the mentoring condition but had no choice as the powers that be were insisting.

 

I'm a cynical old boy who knew Cliff Hayden for years before this particular FEO took over, he goes out of his way to make friends with you and blames everything on Kidlington!

 

No arguement firearms are getting harder and harder, but.....

 

.....give it time, you will see what I mean!

 

ATB!!

Edited April 18, 2010 by Dekers

[starlight32]

I'm afraid these are changing times, look at the handgun laws and if my old grandad knew that one day fox hunting would be banned due to cruelty on the fox he would be turning rapidly in his grave. Meat is prepared behind closed doors and slaughter and factory farming doesnt exist. Armed police and helicopters arresting pigeon shooters while inner city gangs of youths gun each other down.

You gotta face it, common sense went out of policing when the village bobby hung up his bicycle clips, we just have to extract the good that we can.

 

 

Very well put, No true a word said.

 

My father would also be turning in his grave if he knew fox hunting was banned and you needed mentor for rimfire.......... Absolute joke it is.

 

What I don't like about it is say you are someone who has a permission but cannot find a mentor? To me that is unlawful in its own right- in that case the police should come up withan alternative solution to enable you to become competant, whether it be by training or some other form of independant verification.

[Redgum]

Even bigger joke starlight and thats the DSC1, the police contradict their own policies, most forces are now insisting you need the DSC1 before putting deer on your license even though its not law. Once you have done the course you may still get a mentoring clause. Now I'm not saying that passing the DSC1 makes you the safest person out there as there is an awful lot to learn in the field but its a start and on your DSC1 certificate it will say that you have achieved the DSQ standard for safely handling firearms and shoot accurately and consistantly. Lots of shooters will say that the DSC1 is mainly a written test and are against it, when I did mine I did it along side some experience deer boys and their shooting and general knowledge was rubbish, shooting a 4inch target at 100yds even worse and they consequently failed.

Passing a driving test is law and it doesnt test your safety on cornering in the wet, icey roads, driving in fog etc but when you have passed you can jump in a car and propell over a tonne of metal at 100mph without any mentoring clause what so ever. Now your going to do alot more damage with something that size that you can use in a public place were lots of other people will be than a ricocheting 100grain piece of lead out in the countryside on ground that has been checked by the chief of police. And as for suitability to being trusted to drive a car, it doesnt matter if your a nutter. To be granted an FAC at any level you will have been vetted for suitability and have good reason to have requested firearm so its quite likely your going to be responsible.

 

But the general voting public mostly drive cars and the word gun scares them and thats all that matters to the one eyed scotsman who holds the strings.

[Mr_Logic]

There is likely to be a legal challenge in there somewhere for DSC1 - when i had mentoring for deer, I was told I needed it not because of safety but because it was deer and there is a food chain implication. Which is fine, but the remit of the licensing authority is public safety and firearms admin - NOT whether or not I am compliant with food hygiene laws!!

[2-dead-in-the-air]

Even bigger joke starlight and thats the DSC1, the police contradict their own policies, most forces are now insisting you need the DSC1 before putting deer on your license even though its not law. Once you have done the course you may still get a mentoring clause. Now I'm not saying that passing the DSC1 makes you the safest person out there as there is an awful lot to learn in the field but its a start and on your DSC1 certificate it will say that you have achieved the DSQ standard for safely handling firearms and shoot accurately and consistantly. Lots of shooters will say that the DSC1 is mainly a written test and are against it, when I did mine I did it along side some experience deer boys and their shooting and general knowledge was rubbish, shooting a 4inch target at 100yds even worse and they consequently failed.

Passing a driving test is law and it doesnt test your safety on cornering in the wet, icey roads, driving in fog etc but when you have passed you can jump in a car and propell over a tonne of metal at 100mph without any mentoring clause what so ever. Now your going to do alot more damage with something that size that you can use in a public place were lots of other people will be than a ricocheting 100grain piece of lead out in the countryside on ground that has been checked by the chief of police. And as for suitability to being trusted to drive a car, it doesnt matter if your a nutter. To be granted an FAC at any level you will have been vetted for suitability and have good reason to have requested firearm so its quite likely your going to be responsible.

 

But the general voting public mostly drive cars and the word gun scares them and thats all that matters to the one eyed scotsman who holds the strings.

 

This whole buisness is some joke, as you mention than maybe on doing the DSC1 course you still need a mentor !

If the course of the DSC1 is required then they should be paying for it !