FAC rifles ammo and plenty of questions

[welsh warrior]

hi all havnt been on here in a while hows every one doing....right so i got my shotgun cert about 3 mounths ago and now i want my fac ive got land ive got permission ive got a reason for wanting a rifle just waiting for the forms to come should be here this week.but i cant chose a rifle.its going to be a .22lr or a .17 hmr what ever one the police see fit for vermin shooting.i have looked at the cz rifles they look good and i havnt heard a bad word about them.but i have no clue on prices of rifles im looking for a rifle between 200 and 450 quid any good rifles please tell me also what sort of power does those 2 cals have say at 50 and 100 m

[welsh warrior]

when i say what power i mean the ftlb at that range

[vole]

Off the top of my head the .17 has 2.5x the muzzle energy of the .22 lr. They are both used for the same quarry really but both have pros and cons,not least the cost of ammo. Sure someone will post a graph or two to show respective ballistics. I just got a CZ 452 and am pleased with it. That kind of cash would get you a good HMR or .22 I would say.

[welsh warrior]

but what make tho im not to picky i just want something that works well and i can trust every time i fire it.

[vole]

CZ very popular for those reasons but there are fans of other makes. Ozzy on here speaks highly of Marlin .17 HMR.

[welsh warrior]

well i will have to wait untill the police say what im allowed but where i go a guy goes up there some times i know him its all legal.. hes got a .223 so i dont think i should have any probs with a .17hmr but i just want a good idea what i should be looking at

[albob]

17hmr..250ftlbs at the mussel

22lr....100ftlbs at the mussel

 

they have pros and cons.

22lr quiet and good close to 100yrds(some shoot further)..ammo is cheap

17hmr good to 200yrds depending on wind factor and has the sonic crack with it.ammo is not to cheap.

 

al

[welsh warrior]

well 100yds is plenty for me but i dont mind the .17 hmr what sort of ftlb does the 22lr and the 17 hmr have at 100yds would it still be more than say 50 ftlb

[safetyfirst]

Just been through the same quandary myself and have some cents to pitch in.

 

Between the two calibre's, the .22 is quiet, very cheap to run and for the new shooter, effective up to maybe 80-100 yards, more if you've got a bipod and some skill.

Also, if you're planning on some rabbit pie, a 22 round will stop a rabbit dead without turning it into burger meat.

 

The downside is the trajectory of a 22 round is like a squished rainbow and you'll have to compensate with your aim point at ranges outside of that at which you're zeroed. All part of learning a new skill though. A mil dot scope can help, they have a crosshair then aim points along the wires to allow you to compensate for range and windage (perfectly possible without a mildot, some people hate them, I find it easier with them). .22 rounds are also more prone to ricochet so make sure what's behind your target will stop the round (true of any calibre), watch out shooting near hedges as a lot of them used to be walls and have buried stone along their length.

 

No experience shooting a 17HMR but from what I know they shoot flatter, further and with more energy. They are more expensive to run ammo wise, there are less of them around second hand and they can make a mess of your quarry. They are a very well regarded round and what a lot of people move up to after a .22LR. If your land is quite small you've a better chance of getting it passed for .22 than .17HMR.

 

In terms of rifles in .22LR, the CZ452 is a great rifle, expect to pay £250-300 second hand for a good example. I'd say the majority of people make this their first rifle. Savage make a good MKII rifle for around £350 new, that was my second choice. There are a great variety of rifles out there in both calibres for the money you're looking at, go down the biggest gun shop you can find and try a few out, see what you fancy but if you go second hand, whatever you choose, make sure it's a good example with a clean barrel, good extractors and no rust.

 

Don't forget to budget at least £50 for a good scope (3*9 X 40 is a good benchmark in terms of zoom and light capture), £40 for a suppressor, £40 for a bolt and ammo safe (Most if not all Firearms officers expect you to fit one) and £50 for a bipod if you plan to shoot out to 80+ yards and still get regular headshots.

 

In terms of ammo, everyone has their favourites, I only know a little about .22LR ammo but Winchester subsonic, Remington subsonic and Eley subsonic have all been recommended to me a number of times. I called four gunshops locally and they all said Winchester subs were the ones they'd recommend and I'm getting half inch groups at 65 yards with them in my CZ 452 16" Varmint. People seem to think that it all depends on the rifle though so buy a few different brands and shoot them a box of each through it with a good steady bench rest, see which ones are the most consistent and give the best groups.

 

Joining a friendly local rifle club will let you practice from the comfort of a range and meet other rifle shooters and learn a few things. Expect the membership process to set you back £30-150 depending on the club.

 

Have fun!

 

Chris.

Edited April 13, 2010 by safetyfirst

[welsh warrior]

ive got a safe that has a built in ammo box thats fine and it wll fit a bolt well i think a .22lr will do me just fine just will have to look what my gun shop has they have loads of everything.

[steve_b_wales]

Get yourself a CZ 452 in .22LR caliber. It's an excellent rifle, and you can use sub sonic ammo'.

[Ozzy Fudd]

i cant really add anything to what everyone else has said, but for a 1st gun id get a 22lr (preferably bolt action as a semi will make you tear your hair out til you know how to handle it ).

 

imo theres not much point asking everyone what type of gun to get, its the same as asking what type of car you should get, personal preference comes into it. most people seem to like cz 17hmrs, i fired one around christmas and it did the job but felt a bit light to me. when i bought mine i got a marlin 917v, when i lifted it in the shop it just felt right and i paid for it there and then - tbh when i got home i couldnt even remember if it was a marlin or a savage til i started looking up pics on google

 

good luck anyway

[kyska]

If your land is quite small you've a better chance of getting it passed for .22 than .17HMR.

 

This wasn't the case with my feo, he very much wanted me have the hmr before anything else due to the nature of the bullets.

[al4x]

Personally as a new shooter you will find the .17 easier to use, less likely to ricochet and it has far more put down power so you get far fewer runners. As a rabbit gun they are great only downside is noise ignore the wind argument as its bull poop when fired alongside the .22lr. As for gun another vote for the CZ

[safetyfirst]

If your land is quite small you've a better chance of getting it passed for .22 than .17HMR.

 

This wasn't the case with my feo, he very much wanted me have the hmr before anything else due to the nature of the bullets.

 

Interesting, I suspect it's six of one and half a dozen of the other really.

 

A .22 will create more riccochets but a 17 will go further in a straight line.

 

I can see how they'd say a .17 was safer though, the FEO that looked over our land said ok for .22 and a tentative "we'll see" for .17HMR.

 

He said he was happy for me to have a 17 on my first ticket but it was the 72 acre land that was the problem.

 

It's up to the individual FEO at the end of the day.

[deputy dog]

I opted for the .17hmr simpley due to the fact that my mate as a .22lr and i did like the fact of so many ricochets the ammo made. I have aCZ 452 american and i love it. Though a little light, it is a accurate gun and very reliable. And more importantly in didn't cost me the Earth. I picked up a complete combo for a little over £700 which is pretty cheap. You will most certainly drop rabbits up to and a little beyond the 150yrd mark so there's no need to worry about the Foot Pounds energy its producing. It simply will do the job and effectively. Many types of ammo for it and some guns prefer some makes to others. I use Hornady v max 17 / 20 grain heads and i'm doing sub 1" groups at 100yds on a good day. The wind factor does come into a a little but not as much as some would say at that distance. And as you get more experienced you will learn to ajust your aim to compensate for it. There are other makes out there, but for your first gun, CZ every time.

[kyska]

Interesting, I suspect it's six of one and half a dozen of the other really.

 

A .22 will create more riccochets but a 17 will go further in a straight line.

 

I can see how they'd say a .17 was safer though, the FEO that looked over our land said ok for .22 and a tentative "we'll see" for .17HMR.

 

He said he was happy for me to have a 17 on my first ticket but it was the 72 acre land that was the problem.

 

It's up to the individual FEO at the end of the day.

 

Absolutely, I have nigh on 800 acres, but bisected by b roads, the majority of the land is undulating. The FEO I've dealt with has given hmr to a couple of garden centers.

 

Without causing issues with the .22lr crew, it just didn't suit my land, to many under soil stones meant 3-4 out of 5 .22 went whining off, made me sweat. Out of 700 rounds in the hmr I've had 1 screamer, and less with the 40ft/lb air which replaced the .22.lr

[welsh warrior]

mmm it seams to me a tricky area between a .22lr and a .17hmr lots of grey areas but i wlll just have to go with what the firearms officer wants and im happy with that but i think i would still have the .22lr its plenty of power for what i want and the ranges i will be shooting at but if i ever wanted to have a .17 hmr then i always can if i had the option.

[groach1234]

As was also in the same position about 6 months ago and I also went for the hmr i was not sure as so many people on here sing the virtues of the .22lr admittedly i was swinging towards the hmr but in my interview my FEO said as i have limited experience of rifles he would recomend getting a hmr due to the reduced chance of ricochet im not saying i have had non but i can count them on one hand after over 700 rounds its personal choice and both do have their place whatever you decide on you will be happy.

 

George