Badger Cull

[lord_seagrave]

Does anyone know (or would be prepared to speculate on) whether one would be able to sell or give away a culled badger?

 

Would there be any health risk in eating a badger with TB?

 

BBC story

 

Badger Trust

 

Welsh Assembly on Bovine TB

 

 

LS

[lord_seagrave]

...and the Welsh Assembly's Order

 

LS

[libs]

As far as I know, Bovine TB is a zoonotic affliction meaning that it can be passed from animals to humans. I would not eat one.

[955i]

Under the Protection of Badgers Act 1992, it is illegal to possess a live badger or any part of a dead animal unless you can prove it was obtained by legal means.

 

Basically, if you were to give any part to someone, it would need to be accompanied by a letter clearly stating where it was obtained and your details.

 

EDIT: BTW, for the record I think this cull is a joke. It is easy to blame the badgers for the spread of TB, nothing to do with farmers shipping their livestock all round the country at all

Edited April 19, 2010 by 955i

[codling99]

who would want to eat a badger is beyond me,the more they cull the better in my opinion.wish i could get badger on my ticket

[lord_seagrave]

The carcase of any badger destroyed under this

Order is the property of the Welsh Ministers and must

not be removed from the land or premises on which it

was destroyed or in any way disposed of without the

authority of the Welsh Ministers.

 

Hmmm... Badger ham at the next Welsh Cabinet dinner & dance then?

 

LS

[docholiday]

The carcase of any badger destroyed under this

Order is the property of the Welsh Ministers and must

not be removed from the land or premises on which it

was destroyed or in any way disposed of without the

authority of the Welsh Ministers.

 

Hmmm... Badger ham at the next Welsh Cabinet dinner & dance then?

 

LS

 

 

[al4x]

Under the Protection of Badgers Act 1992, it is illegal to possess a live badger or any part of a dead animal unless you can prove it was obtained by legal means.

 

Basically, if you were to give any part to someone, it would need to be accompanied by a letter clearly stating where it was obtained and your details.

 

EDIT: BTW, for the record I think this cull is a joke. It is easy to blame the badgers for the spread of TB, nothing to do with farmers shipping their livestock all round the country at all

 

 

so people with closed herds who don't bring any animals onto their farm shouldn't get TB, sadly they do so that sort of knock your argument on the head a little.

 

if they used this cull as a test they would also find the ground nesting birds thrived as well as a result of a cull.

[Paul223]

EDIT: BTW, for the record I think this cull is a joke. It is easy to blame the badgers for the spread of TB, nothing to do with farmers shipping their livestock all round the country at all

So it's OK to spend millions on pay outs for cattle with Tb whilst an infected badger set is afforded protection, it's OK for the farmers business to be effectively put on hold until his cattle pass 2 consecutive TB tests, tests which are held 60 days apart?? To give you an idea if your beef farmer tested positive on the first of January he'd be very lucky to be trading again by the first week in May, that may not seem like a real problem, but move the initial test back to October or November and the farmer now has a real problem with to much stock which he can not get rid of, new regulations mean it's hard to keep cattle out doors on some (wet) land, buildings which are not big enough to house that stock and not enough silage to feed them. Yes sounds like a real joke. Not.

 

Over here in Wales the farmers are now testing every year for TB, one of my permissions tested positive last year, no cattle movements into the farm for 3 years plus (dairy) and no other TB in the area, an isolated case (how does that happen??), however we have a lot of badgers, two more local farms have tested positive this year, both were tested last year and were TB free.

 

TB infects other animals too, deer for instance, it is wholly unfair to have a TB infestation in badgers and to do nothing about it, in reality badgers should be trapped at the set, tested and if found to be positive the set gassed, collapsed and landscaped, uninfected sets left alone, your thinking about it the wrong way eradicate the TB (which ever animal is infected) not the badger, although that would do a lot for hares and ground nesting birds.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Paul223

[unclestuffy]

This is the relivent information for mammal TB:

 

Tuberculosis (Animal) (Bacteria)

 

Source: Usually contact with mucus from the respiratory tract

 

Pathway: Inhalation, puncture wounds or hand to mouth contact

 

Sympton: Weight loss, energy loss, poor appetite, fever , productive cough and night sweats generally late on in development

 

Badger meat has a very "cheesy" smell about it - almost like dog paw scent. I suspect that the cooked meat will retain this odour

[955i]

so people with closed herds who don't bring any animals onto their farm shouldn't get TB, sadly they do so that sort of knock your argument on the head a little.

 

Not at all. I am in no way suggesting that badgers do not carry TB and infect livestock, that would be very shortsighted indeed.

 

What I am saying is that people seem to find it easier to blame badgers for the whole kit and caboodle rather than accepting that farming practices also have a lot to do with it.

 

Badgers are very territorial animals so where did the TB that they have come from in the first place (yes, I know that if there are two groups whose territories adjoin it could be passed between them but that won't always be the case)?

 

Same as with foxes, it is always the foxes fault that the farmer's chickens are killed, never the fact that they were not put in a fox proof enclosure in the first place.

[al4x]

which farming practices in closed herds?

 

Farmers are having to be so careful so many only ever let animals off the farm to go to market its a real kick when they still get TB because of Badger sets they have on the farm they can do nothing legally about. You certainly can't fence them out any sense and there is only a slight hope of a vaccine being created to stop TB.

[codling99]

badgers are territorial ,but when they breed they do split and look for new sets,so therefore will travel quite a few miles.

[955i]

Farmers are having to be so careful so many only ever let animals off the farm to go to market

 

Wasn't talking specifically closed herds, more farming in general. Even with closed herds suppose Farmer A takes his dog with him to his mate Farmer B's farm who doesn't have a closed herd and recently took some of his stock to market where an as yet unidentified case of TB was present in someones stock.

 

Farmer A goes back to his farm for his dinner and a pleasant evenings grumbling and lo and behold a short time later he discovers his closed herd has TB. Now will he assume that it was from a chance encounter between his dog and one of Farmer B's stock that went to market and was brought back, or does he simply assume that as he has a closed herd they must have picked it up off badgers?

 

And Codling, you are right and there is potential infection in these cases. My question is, if you are suggesting a cull of a species, you should surely be able to prove with conviction that this actually IS the solution.

 

You can kill all the badgers you like, but if there is even a grain of truth in my scenario above, it won't make any difference in the long run.

 

Given that it can also be carried by ferret, mink, fox, dog, cat, human, mole and deer, how many species do you suggest we need to cull to keep the farmers happy?

[codling99]

well my slant is,why protect them??? their not rare,their not pets,their vermin,so need controlling like other pests.no one wants to eradicate them completely,just remove the protection order and let them be controlled in the same way foxes and rabbits are.a lot of farms i shoot on actually like the badgers and have never had no trouble with them and would never allow them to be harmed,and other farms i shoot on hate them and would like them all to be killed if they could,so down to common sense i think.

[955i]

well my slant is,why protect them??? their not rare,their not pets,their vermin,so need controlling like other pests.no one wants to eradicate them completely,just remove the protection order and let them be controlled in the same way foxes and rabbits are.a lot of farms i shoot on actually like the badgers and have never had no trouble with them and would never allow them to be harmed,and other farms i shoot on hate them and would like them all to be killed if they could,so down to common sense i think.

 

They are protected for the simple reason that if they weren't they would soon be brought to the brink of extiction in the UK by the gung ho and the baiters.

 

Same as great crested newts, they are all over the place but only because the protection is in place. Were it not land developers would fill ponds in without a thought and they would become endangered/extinct or at least so fragmented that the gene pool would be insufficient to ensure population survival.

 

And when all is said and done, they are vermin to who?

 

People have said that a cull would help ground nesting birds, well so would leaving field margins which seems to have gone out of the window since farmers stopped getting subsidised for it.

 

There just always seems to be a scapegoat whenever there is an issue in the farming community and that troubles me :(

[codling99]

They are protected for the simple reason that if they weren't they would soon be brought to the brink of extiction in the UK by the gung ho and the baiters.

 

Same as great crested newts, they are all over the place but only because the protection is in place. Were it not land developers would fill ponds in without a thought and they would become endangered/extinct or at least so fragmented that the gene pool would be insufficient to ensure population survival.

 

And when all is said and done, they are vermin to who?

 

People have said that a cull would help ground nesting birds, well so would leaving field margins which seems to have gone out of the window since farmers stopped getting subsidised for it.

 

There just always seems to be a scapegoat whenever there is an issue in the farming community and that troubles me :(

 

 

baiting is a different issue all together,farmers would not alow digging to go on if shooting was allowed,illegal baiting dont happen as much as people seem to think or a led to beleive by teddy bear lovers,their as much vermin as foxes and rabbits,they all live in holes,they all dig holes,their all cause damage,their all not wanted on most farmers land which they happen to own, and do you actually do any any vermin control ? or just clay shooting?

[955i]

baiting is a different issue all together,farmers would not alow digging to go on if shooting was allowed,illegal baiting dont happen as much as people seem to think or a led to beleive by teddy bear lovers,their as much vermin as foxes and rabbits,they all live in holes,they all dig holes,their all cause damage,their all not wanted on most farmers land which they happen to own, and do you actually do any any vermin control ? or just clay shooting? :(

 

No, I do pest control but only pigeon and rabbit, although I am not entirely sure why you appear to be trying to make this personal about me

 

Don't think digging holes is really justification for killing stuff or should I start shooting mice?

[codling99]

i m not trying to make it personal,and mice can be trapped and released somewhere they wont cause damage or killed.foxes,badgers and rabbits cant be trapped and released only killed. the tuth is a lot of people watch wildlife programs,see a cute cuddly pig or fox cuddled up in some rspca fellas arms and thinks aaawwww how can someone hurt them,when reallity is they do cause a lot of damage to some farmers lively hoods and land,no two ways about it. the only reason i asked if you did any vermin control was to see if you experianced any damage or spoke to any farmers who are stuggling,or concerned about badgers or tb on their land.i dont believe in cruelty like baiting or digging,but most wild animals need culling or controlling in one way or annother to ensure a balance in nature ,it gives a helping hand to other animals,just like shooting crows or magpies to protect songbirds.sorry if ive offended you ,that was not my intention. :(

[955i]

most wild animals need culling or controlling in one way or annother to ensure a balance in nature

 

Now this is the problem as I see it. Nature is (by its nature) self balancing with no need for input from people.

 

The only reason it is not able to do it as easily now is human intervention such as development and farming methods (particularly since the war when intensive farming was introduced).

 

How many bird species do you think are scarce now due to the removal of hedgerows and field margins to make fields larger and easier/quicker to plough? How much rich habitat has been lost to huge arable and pasture deserts with no habitat connectivity?

 

I know that in order to compete these farming methods are (unfortunately) necessary these days, but I don't think that species should be culled out just to pacify farmers unless their practices also change to make that cull worthwhile and effective.

 

And who is to shoulder the blame if the cull is brought into effect and TB remains rife?

[Paul223]

People have said that a cull would help ground nesting birds, well so would leaving field margins which seems to have gone out of the window since farmers stopped getting subsidised for it.

How do you earn extra money? overtime may be?, Mr farmer has no such luxury, may be you should put some thought into what farmers do for a living.

 

No amount of field margin will make up for badgers hovering up eggs, and TB will never be conquered if its left in endemic proportions in the badger population, regardless of how it got there.

[docholiday]

we are allowed to cull deer and we arnt making a dent in the population.

doc

[955i]

How do you earn extra money? overtime may be?, Mr farmer has no such luxury, may be you should put some thought into what farmers do for a living.

 

I am perfectly aware of what farmers do for a living and stated above that it is unfortunate that they have been forced into such intensive practices by competition from abroad and by supermarkets.

 

No amount of field margin will make up for badgers hovering up eggs, and TB will never be conquered if its left in endemic proportions in the badger population, regardless of how it got there.

 

Seems to have passed you by the first time so I will say it again, I am not disputing that badgers can be a problem with regards to TB, what I am questioning is are they THE problem? If the cull goes ahead will livestock movements still keep the disease circulating through UK stocks? If so then it is a complete waste of time and simply a knee-jerk reaction to avoid the real issue.

 

And how do you work out that field margin would not make up for badgers eating eggs? If this was true then ground nesting birds would have been wiped out centuries ago. Loss of habitat is the culprit, but again a scapegoat is required :(

[955i]

we are allowed to cull deer and we arnt making a dent in the population.

doc

 

True, but unless special license was put in place similar to deer then anyone with a shotgun could take badger. Also deer are more or less free roaming and harder to locate, with badgers once you had found the sett it would just be a case of waiting until it gets dark, making them a very easy target and enabling the destruction of whole family units with little effort.

[al4x]

livestock movements are pretty heavily controlled, TB is contagious quite a long time after they get infected from what I understand so the fact we test all cattle in the UK and put movement restrictions on positive herds would stop infection were it not coming in from elsewhere.

 

The old keeper on my estate was part of a trial years ago comparing badgers effects on ground nesting birds, partly funded by the RSPB and partly by some badger group to try and proove there wasn't a link to bird decline and funnily enough it got pulled before the end as the results were not what they wanted.

 

I understand that you think badgers are friendly fluffy little creatures but they aren't, I like to see them but we aren't in a livestock area so they do no harm. Other than dig enormous holes in fields. Field margins are still being promoted round us but have to say theres not much difference with farms with them on to farms without them we still have a lot of most birds and grey partridges etc are flourishing so can't see where the loss of habitat comes in, if anything the best habitat these days is game coverwhich is arround in ever increasing amounts