FAC Application form

[notsosureshot]

Hope someone can help with this :(

 

Im just starting to think about filling out my FAC.

 

I've downloaded a sample form from Sussex Police as Yorkshire are not available online to my knowledge. I dont see anywhere for moderators or expanding ammunition on the form itself (except quantity of ammunition to be held/acquired). Do I need to list them as firearms, if so, the provided 5 slots seems quite restrictive.

 

Whats the best way to handle adding moderators for each calibre and also expanding ammunition for deer?

Edited April 21, 2010 by notsosureshot

[codling99]

a mod is a firearm so needs to be stated seperatley for each rifle. as for expanding ammo,they should give that automatically for deer and vermin anyways :(

[notsosureshot]

A moderator is a firearm. I wonder who came up with that little gem...

 

Thanks codling :(

 

Hmm, now I dont have enough slots for the firearms I want. I feel a call to the FEO coming on.

Edited April 20, 2010 by notsosureshot

[kyska]

Hope someone can help with this :(

 

Im just starting to think about filling out my FAC.

 

I've downloaded a sample form from Sussex Police as West Yorkshire are not available online to my knowledge. I dont see anywhere for moderators or expanding ammunition on the form itself (except quantity of ammunition to be held/acquired). Do I need to list them as firearms, if so, the provided 5 slots seems quite restrictive.

 

Whats the best way to handle adding moderators for each calibre and also expanding ammunition for deer?

 

Regards,

 

Martin

 

Put for example .243 bolt action rifle with moderator.

 

Bone of contention re the expanding ammunition, some forces automatically presume you will want to use it because of the purpose of the gun, but to be sure add expanding next to your requested quota of ammunition.

[Vipa]

Hope someone can help with this :(

 

Im just starting to think about filling out my FAC.

 

I've downloaded a sample form from Sussex Police as West Yorkshire are not available online to my knowledge. I dont see anywhere for moderators or expanding ammunition on the form itself (except quantity of ammunition to be held/acquired). Do I need to list them as firearms, if so, the provided 5 slots seems quite restrictive.

 

Whats the best way to handle adding moderators for each calibre and also expanding ammunition for deer?

 

Regards,

 

Martin

 

Well, I'm still waiting for my ticket to land so only time will tell if I did it right. I would have thought that any issues will be cleared up at interview but in my case, as the FEO only came out to see me about my SGC 8 weeks or so ago, the general consensus with my shooting pals is that it is a toss up as to whether he will make a second trip or it will just go through channels without a further visit!

 

I put on mine each calbre I wanted and then just put +SM so .243Win Rifle +SM, .308/7.62mm Rifle +SM. etc. As for the ammo, in holding and buying I just listed the calibre & quantities I needed and then in the next box that wasn't being used for anything else just wrote very clearly **Expanding Ammunition Required for Deer in .243 & .308/7.62mm**

 

The Secretary of my rifle club helped me fill it in and he has done loads so hopefully I have all bases covered!

[Gary H]

Well, I'm still waiting for my ticket to land so only time will tell if I did it right. I would have thought that any issues will be cleared up at interview but in my case, as the FEO only came out to see me about my SGC 8 weeks or so ago, the general consensus with my shooting pals is that it is a toss up as to whether he will make a second trip or it will just go through channels without a further visit!

 

I put on mine each calbre I wanted and then just put +SM so .243Win Rifle +SM, .308/7.62mm Rifle +SM. etc. As for the ammo, in holding and buying I just listed the calibre & quantities I needed and then in the next box that wasn't being used for anything else just wrote very clearly **Expanding Ammunition Required for Deer in .243 & .308/7.62mm**

 

The Secretary of my rifle club helped me fill it in and he has done loads so hopefully I have all bases covered!

Hi Guys I required more than 5 firearms so all you do is print another copy of the page for the firearm slots thats all i did and it is more than acceptable.

 

Regards Gary

[notsosureshot]

Thanks guys.

 

I called the FE office and asked some further questions relating to expanding ammunition.

 

They told me that to get a .308 conditioned for deer, I actually need proven experience with a .308 on deer irrespective of my experience with the calibre in general. Meaning I need to actually go out and shoot with a .308 estate rifle prior to applying for a variation.

 

This seems completely unfair as its highly unlikely the estate rifle available on a shoot you book would be the calibre you wish to buy yourself. If I go on an accompanied Muntjac shoot to get stalking experience I'd use a 223 or 243 but its still experience on deer! Lets face is a .243 and a .308 are both perfectly suitable for deer in general, perhaps the .308 being a little large for munties.

[Vipa]

Thanks guys.

 

I called the FE office and asked some further questions relating to expanding ammunition.

 

They told me that to get a .308 conditioned for deer, I actually need proven experience with a .308 on deer irrespective of my experience with the calibre in general. Meaning I need to actually go out and shoot with a .308 estate rifle prior to applying for a variation.

 

This seems completely unfair as its highly unlikely the estate rifle available on a shoot you book would be the calibre you wish to buy yourself. If I go on an accompanied Muntjac shoot to get stalking experience I'd use a 223 or 243 but its still experience on deer! Lets face is a .243 and a .308 are both perfectly suitable for deer in general, perhaps the .308 being a little large for munties.

 

My circumstances are slightly different in that I have been a full member of my rifle club for 3+ years and so have 'reasonable grounds' for target shooting alone so the only bone of contention is the expanding ammunition. As all of my deer activity will be recreational/paid for stalking days, it will in most cases be supervised by the guide anyway. Just completed my DSC1 too so that all helps my case and have also provided them with invites/invoices for stalks booked in May. Just plopped a deposit down for a week in Scotland after Sikkas in November too so will send that over as well.

[kyska]

Thanks guys.

 

I called the FE office and asked some further questions relating to expanding ammunition.

 

They told me that to get a .308 conditioned for deer, I actually need proven experience with a .308 on deer irrespective of my experience with the calibre in general. Meaning I need to actually go out and shoot with a .308 estate rifle prior to applying for a variation.

 

This seems completely unfair as its highly unlikely the estate rifle available on a shoot you book would be the calibre you wish to buy yourself. If I go on an accompanied Muntjac shoot to get stalking experience I'd use a 223 or 243 but its still experience on deer! Lets face is a .243 and a .308 are both perfectly suitable for deer in general, perhaps the .308 being a little large for munties.

 

The other option would to have the .308 on the ticket with a mentor on, which seems to be the way things are going at the minute.

[al4x]

if you're applying for a whole list of calibers up to 308 with no prior FAC or experience you can expect more than a bit of hastle trying to get it through

[Vipa]

if you're applying for a whole list of calibers up to 308 with no prior FAC or experience you can expect more than a bit of hastle trying to get it through

 

 

Cleveland will only allow 3 slots on grant so went for .243 & .308 (both for deer plus zeroing/target practice, .243 England up to borders and .308 for Scotland) plus a .22rf to keep my eye in at the range on a wednesday night!

[notsosureshot]

I expected some hassle but the condition of having experience on deer with an exact calibre is strange. It basically restricts where you can go stalking since the estate has to have the calibre of rifle you wish to use in order for the experience to be valid in FAC terms.

 

I do have previous experience of centerfire rifles (outside the UK and at the club here) and grants for target shooting are not going to be a problem, so Im told by the team. Its simply the deer condition that Im concerned about.

 

I had a chap in mind for some guided stalking, following recommendation from a friend. Now my trip with him will depend on whether or not he has a .308, which is simply not cricket. Whilst obviously I understand there are differences between calibres and their application or suitability, I fail to appreciate why someone experienced with a .243 or .270, would not be able to shoot a .308 on the same quarry. Thats effectively what they are saying. I also got the impression that they would enforce this for experienced individuals also.

 

The .308 I want granted for both target and deer. I was planning to do stalking in Scotland so a .308 is more flexible based on my research. It is also a common calibre with a wide choice of rifles available, both new and used.

 

Anyway, Im having a bit of a moan, sorry. I just wish that the law was applied correctly, stalking is proof of a legitimate purpose for owning a particular calibre, if you have it booked with an experienced guide, I do not understand the problem with using any legal calibre. Am I wrong in my interpretation of the law?

 

What I previously thought was that having some stalking booked was classed as a good reason for an FAC grant conditioned for deer. It seems as this is no longer true or perhaps it was never true.

 

I really appreciate all the feedback, its useful and what I learn I do tend to pass on to others if asked, for what its worth.

Edited April 20, 2010 by notsosureshot

[Piebob]

I expected some hassle but the condition of having experience on deer with an exact calibre is strange. It basically restricts where you can go stalking since the estate has to have the calibre of rifle you wish to use in order for the experience to be valid in FAC terms.

 

That does sound strange. As you say, experience shooting deer with any large caliber should suffice surely? Why the experience needs to be linked to actual calibre requested is beyond me. Is that definitely what the FEO said? And did he realise how insane that condition is?

 

To turn it around the other way, you could already have, say, a.308 for target and deer then decide that you want to get, or change to, a .243 and the FEO would say "no" or state that you had to get experience of using a .243! Or are they only applying this rule as you increase caliber?!?!?

 

Think I'd be contacting BASC....

[notsosureshot]

Piebob, that is exactly my point although Im not sure if it applies if you are stepping down in calibre also.

 

The person I spoke to was not the actual FEO, but in the office and had been there for many years. I was told in no uncertain terms that I would need experience with a .308 on deer before I would get the deer condition added which to me is entirely incorrect and has far reaching consequences to the future of stalking. It basically limits your choice of rifle to the ones available where you stalk initially if you are a beginner. It wouldnt necessarily be an issue if you could stalk with say a .243 and then buy a .308. There is not THAT much difference, the same principles of safety and marksmanship apply to all centerfire calibres, if not all firearms. Of course, I do understand that backstop requirements etc do vary but the underlying principles are the same.

 

Whats next, experience of a particular make and model of rifle as well as calibre?

 

Im not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, just clarify what I need to do to actually have a choice of rifle for my hobby!

 

I cannot imagine what I'd do without PW. If I wanted to get into stalking without access to the wealth of knowledge here, it would be a non-starter, which it seems is precisely the situation the anti's want. So thank you PW people!!

Edited April 20, 2010 by notsosureshot

[mereside]

hi guys i have recently gained my fac in january but prior to this i booked a couple of paid stalks i put in for a .270 because i didnt want multiple rifles .now my main quarry is roe but i have always stated from the off that i was going to stalk reds in scotland so the .270 would do everything including boar. my feo winced abit when the .270 was mentioned but my guide backed up my wanting of the 270 and everything went through ok and not restricted to deer . at the start a mentor clause was mentioned but again my guide said it was too restricting being tied to one guide as my intention was to go to scotland as well which ment paying him to come along as well so that in the end was dropped but i must go out with someone with experience for three months and to be reviewed. i have now been offered some land and i have a few jobs for fox to be sorted so rang feo to get the clause taken off and i have to send my ticket back with a letter about what i have been doing and the new land i have gained and it should be removed so we shall see. i have had alot of paid days in a short period of time but i do think it helps if you go with someone who has alot of experience and has also a good raport with your feo who can help,all the best wayne.

Edited April 20, 2010 by mereside

[notsosureshot]

mereside, thats useful information, thank you.

 

Just to make sure my views are clear. I do not support anyone being granted an FAC for deer and being able to go and shoot unaccompanied if they have no prior experience of it. Clearly, culling deer is a serious business and the tools of the trade can be dangerous in inexperienced hands. The mentoring idea is a good one if it is practical to implement. Failing that, a good substitute are paid days with a reputable guide.

 

The requirement to have experience is a reasonable one and I have no argument with it, but when specific calibres are being mentioned in such restrictions, not just a general "any legal calibre", it sends my head into a spin.

 

Im pretty sure anyone with any common sense would never seek to shoot a deer without having a clue what they are doing, which can really only come from experience of the act itself.

Edited April 20, 2010 by notsosureshot

[mereside]

i would definately go down the route of paid days with someone who is recomended as you will learn so much more and alot quicker and they will also recomend to your feo on how safe and capable you are because feo will speak to your guide when you put in for your fac.

[notsosureshot]

Thats the route Im going to take mereside. I've contacted Yorkshire Deer Stalking. Hopefully I can arrange a day out with John. I know I've got plenty to learn about deer