Salop Matt Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 I have both HMR and .22lr. I only take fox at maximum 50 yards with the HMR but I know some folk can get fox as a condition on .22lr. About 10 years ago I went out to watch lamping with rifles for the first time ever with a game keeper I know. He would shoot from his landy tail board with his .22lr and if we saw charles he had a .222 in the back but he always had a magizine in a pocket for the 22lr with some HV`s in, incase there wasnt the time to swap and load the .222 . So this has got me thinking. . . . . At 50 yards which round will do the better job on Charles ? HMR 17 GRN 186 ftlbs at 2550 FPS 22lr stinger 32GRN 119 ftlbs at 1640 fps 22lr mini mag 36 GRN 97 ftlbs at 1260 fps Theres only 610fps difference betwen the HMR and stinger but the stinger is nearly twice the weight ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 i think you'll find they all give Reynard a nasty headache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 (edited) its the 186ftlbs that is the figure you want to look at and then work on the fact the HMR doesn't tend to exit and that is more than enough to sit foxy on his backside. I had another with the hummer last night that had to be shouted to make it stop for the shot and its very effective. Irritatingly I seem to be shooting more with it than my .223 at the moment. The other thing to bear in mind is accuracy and you will be far more accurate with the hummer and that is what its all about. 50 yards body shoot them and you will have more margin for error and the round has plenty of punch for it. Edited May 14, 2010 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 HMR expands more and dissipate energy more - but I'd rather be shot with an HV .22 I think. Quite a heavy bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 it's funny Al4x - i'm about 50/50 ratio of 17.hmr/.223 on foxes - it's all a case of whether they present themselves when i'm out rabbiting or i'm specifically out with the .223 for foxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 round your way it seems to be best use the hummer as its too dodgy to use anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 I have both HMR and .22lr. I only take fox at maximum 50 yards with the HMR but I know some folk can get fox as a condition on .22lr. About 10 years ago I went out to watch lamping with rifles for the first time ever with a game keeper I know. He would shoot from his landy tail board with his .22lr and if we saw charles he had a .222 in the back but he always had a magizine in a pocket for the 22lr with some HV`s in, incase there wasnt the time to swap and load the .222 . So this has got me thinking. . . . . At 50 yards which round will do the better job on Charles ? HMR 17 GRN 186 ftlbs at 2550 FPS 22lr stinger 32GRN 119 ftlbs at 1640 fps 22lr mini mag 36 GRN 97 ftlbs at 1260 fps Theres only 610fps difference betwen the HMR and stinger but the stinger is nearly twice the weight ! As always there is no simple answer, but at 50 yards ALL will do the job if you place the shot. Terminal ballistics etc, need considering, the stinger, and quite possibly the mini mag will go right through with a side heart shot at that distance, very possibly with little expansion/disruption! Accuracy wise the stinger is likely to be the worst of the bunch, the HMR the best Dead is dead, there are no degrees of dead, just a matter of how much mess there is to clean up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 depends which farm - i've got 6 to shoot over now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 they always seem to crop up with either the M1 behind them or close to houses, still dead is dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted May 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 Am just going through my in my head, Last year I accounted for 6 fox whith the HMR. But seem to be currently shooting well with my .22lr on bugs ! Also if i could get the .22 for fox then i could really look at dropping to 1 rifle for everything and having the money for the rifle towards an engagement ring ! I was thinking that if I can consistantly get a 1 inch or less group with HV`s at 50yards then that would be a good result esp if a 50 yard zero was at a aim point further up my SCB reticule enabling me to leave the cross hairs as zero for my winni subs on bugs ! I know the putting the round in the right place would be down to me putting in work on the range first to see how i get on before going live with it but also wanted to know what peoples thoughts / experiences were of the round on impact etc ? (hope that makes sense ? IE if i do my bit would the round do its bit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 just use subs, you'll be more accurate with them and at that range they'll go down no problem , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted May 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 Okay, so reading the posts so far, if i can get charles on .22lr would I be better for 50yard head shots with subs or hyper ? Personally my train of thought is my aim is to deliver a head shot at 50yards with as bigger round as possible at as greater spead as possible ! To ensure the cleanest most humain kill. I know subs are capable of taking charles at this range but the hyper hits harder with the bigger fps. I wouldnt personaly take a charlie with anything other than a head shot with any rimefire but couldnt justifie a .223 cf for 5-10 charlies a year ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 headshots are unnecessary at that range and any small movement results in a badly injured fox you won't find with a wound that takes a long time to kill. Chest shots at that range tend to incapacitate well and if the worst happens and it runs they run with severe injuries and expire pretty quickly, I only use the HMR and get the odd one run 10 yards or so but then keel over. I know where you are coming from with the high velocity rounds but the facts are they generally group really badly so aren't ideal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 best thing to do is go to a quiet field, set a few targets out at 50 yards and see which ammo groups best in your gun, then set out a few things like planks of wood, etc, soot them to see what sort of damage the rounds do (see theres a reason i shoot dishwashers ) im with al4x tho, at 30 yards 22lr yellow jacket hv's were punching through the side of a pug 106, ripping through the seats and leaving dents in the far side of the car, so maybe not enough expansion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian750 Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 Really interesting this, I've had my FEO visit 4 weeks ago and asked a similar question as I keep hens. I don't intend to go actively looking for charlie, but if he decides my hens look like lunch then I wanted to be able to do something about it. I applied for .22lr and .17hmr and asked if either of these would be sufficient at close range. The FEO said he would check his book on the subject and ring me back, which he dutifully did. The answer was .22lr with subs at close range is ok, anything more than that so much the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 (edited) I have both HMR and .22lr. I only take fox at maximum 50 yards with the HMR but I know some folk can get fox as a condition on .22lr. About 10 years ago I went out to watch lamping with rifles for the first time ever with a game keeper I know. He would shoot from his landy tail board with his .22lr and if we saw charles he had a .222 in the back but he always had a magizine in a pocket for the 22lr with some HV`s in, incase there wasnt the time to swap and load the .222 . So this has got me thinking. . . . . At 50 yards which round will do the better job on Charles ? HMR 17 GRN 186 ftlbs at 2550 FPS think you will find this is more like 250ftlbs 22lr stinger 32GRN 119 ftlbs at 1640 fps 22lr mini mag 36 GRN 97 ftlbs at 1260 fps Theres only 610fps difference betwen the HMR and stinger but the stinger is nearly twice the weight ! just to update this. both will do the job when used correctly. al Edited May 14, 2010 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 You're over-complicating this one. At 50 yards a 22LR with subs works fine. Head shot better but body shot OK. hmr also works fine, at that range slightly better as it expands faster. Body shot OK. If you want one rifle, get a 22 Magnum. Charlie to 100+ no problem and rabbits a way further. Cheap to feed accurate enough - what's not to like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted May 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 The £50 variation fee and i love my 22LR ! But would probobly swap my HMR for a WMR using vmax 30grns with the poly tip but still running 2 rifles then ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted May 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 albob i had put fps - feet per second ....... ie speed not power ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 its £26 or something along those lines for a variation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 (edited) albob i had put fps - feet per second ....... ie speed not power ! not sure what you mean but,they put out 250ftlbs at the mussel with 17g bullets. it just did not add up,at that fps,it comes out at 245ftlbs.hence my post and seems to be not much more than the 22lr.when it is two and a half times more,than the 22lr power. al Edited May 14, 2010 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted May 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 SPEED The HMR has a MV of 2550 feet per second as per the box, the 22lr stinger has a MV of 1640 feet per second. POWER At 50yards: HMR 186 foot pound , 22lr stinger 119 foot pounds. At muzzle : HMR 245 foot pound , 22lr stinger 191 foot pounds. The figures i gave in my first post were the MV and the FTLBs at 50yards (my intended max range to shoot charles) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 worry more about the ftlbs as they are what do the damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 (edited) SPEED The HMR has a MV of 2550 feet per second as per the box, the 22lr stinger has a MV of 1640 feet per second. POWER At 50yards: HMR 186 foot pound , 22lr stinger 119 foot pounds. At muzzle : HMR 245 foot pound , 22lr stinger 191 foot pounds. The figures i gave in my first post were the MV and the FTLBs at 50yards (my intended max range to shoot charles) . ah,big difference...stating yrds for each would have been simpler and if from the mussle or not.saves soeone daft like me,doing this ..lol :good: atb al Edited May 14, 2010 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 If you are getting rid of one for anther that is 1-for-1 and free. Energy is not the most important thing. If I have a 223 with FMJ that has more energy but does hardly any damage. You need high energy and a very quick energy transfer. That is why HMR is great up close but tails off fast with range - after a while it doesn't hit with enough oomph to get the polymer tip to expand well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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