Down South Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 A farmer that allows me to shoot his land has aked me to take care of a fox that is bothering his ewes in the lambing sheds. It should be quite easy as the lights come on when he gets in. Can't use the 12 bore as the ewes are heavily pregnant so its down to a rifle. .22 lr and .17 HMR on my ticket and only allowed vermin. Farmer was dissapointed so I called Hants police fire arms dept and asked if I could use either for foxes. Guess what? "Yes! They are vermin", I was told. Anyway, it can only be at close range and I've asked him to use a cage trap first. It usually visits very early in the morning and thats not my idea of fun. A warm wife has more appeal than a stinking fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Yes! They are vermin", I was told. phone em back and tell them there wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I know Sussex would say Fox is not classed as vermin. Best bet is to phone them back and get them to send written confirmation of the interpretation of vermin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invector Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 If you ever have any problems with the definition of vermin quote the following: The Chambers Dictionary. Vermin-a collective name for small animals, insects or birds that are troublesome or destructive to crops, game or domestic stock; obnoxious or despicable. This definition hinges on whether or not the fox is classed as a `small animal` Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invector Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Just checked in The Oxford Paperback Dictionary: vermin - common animals and birds of an objectionable kind, especially those (such as foxes, rats, mice,owls) that injure crops or food or game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 invector, your right mate.but. for the purpose of issuing firearms fox and vermin are classed as different things. home office guidance, chapter 13, good reason to posses a firearm. lists fox and vermin separate. meaning if Mr tree hugger reports a shooter for shooting a fox with a RF rifle and you dont have fox as a condition for that rifle, you are in breach of your conditions. if people are insistent on shooting fox with a RF and cant have it added as a condition on there ticket, ask the issuing constabulary to clarify it in writing that fox are vermin.at least this way you will know for certain. when dealing with the firearms departments with things like this never really on whats said over the phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I informed my local FEO that my farmer has a fox problem - Leicestershire constabulary class fox as vermin - thus enabling a person to use a single gun for a wider range of quarry. An advantage to this philosophy is there is less risk of alternative guns left in a vehicle. Also got a bit of bad news yesterday as four more land areas were cleared for me... The 3 years closed certificate has recently gone up to five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB REYNOLDS UK Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 (edited) iv shot and seen the warrener shoot foxs with the 22 rf ..as long as its a clean kill thats all that matters ,its got to be a head shot useing the 22rf.. to much is said about what the police will do, they dont no half of the gun laws and thats a fact ..BASC knows more than the police will ever do even the police use BASC ..vermin is vermin and a fox is classed as vermin .the police would rather you shoot a fox useing a bigger cal putting it down with out fuss or suffering but i dont see any law saying you can not shoot a fox with a 22rf the police say they would rather you shoot one with a bigger cal not that you cant ...show me in writeing were it says you cant WHAT BASC SAY The .22 Rimfire (R/F) is almost universally used for rabbit shooting. It is powerful enough to ensure a humane kill without damaging the carcase so as to make it unattractive in the market. It is not sufficiently powerful for the humane shooting of foxes unless the range is extremely short and circumstances allow the bullet to be placed with great precision. http://www.basc.org.uk/content/riflescalibreland Edited January 11, 2006 by ROB REYNOLDS UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargeant Bang Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I'm in Hants, and the .22RF slot on my ticket states its for Fox and Vermin. so they seem to be OK about shooting a fox with a .22, but they do distinguish it from normal Vermin such as Rabbit. I've always understood that there's nothing illegal about shooting Fox with .22, it's just not the desirable calibre to use is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invector Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Any problems? Show plod the dictionary definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirky640 Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 (edited) wot a fus over nothing its down to comen sence lads, when i worked on the farm i used to carry .22 ruger semi auto with me and when spraying crops i would shoot the foxes they would often stand in the next tramline just 24 metres away stone dead 99% of the time but its only a fox. who cares have many of u seen a ewe or lamb half eaten by foxy hes bad and he is vermin and a ginger pain to the countryside saying that i wouldnt like to c the end of mr fox yet! Edited January 11, 2006 by kirky640 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fert Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 whats wrong with shooting a fox with a 17 hmr i have shot fox with this gun up to 13o yards stone dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 The 3 years closed certificate has recently gone up to five years. this is an even bigger lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Pedro has a thread running on the gun trader site. http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Forum/ read some of the views there. its in rifles and cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 This crops up time and again IMO, if you are within the law i.e. have Fox on your ticket for the relevant calibre and, only take humane shots within your abitlity, i really dont see the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmick Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Shoot the ****er, nobody will know, will they!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invector Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Axe, Surely if you only have vermin on your ticket you can shoot foxes when they are described as vermin in the dictionary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Axe, Surely if you only have vermin on your ticket you can shoot foxes when they are described as vermin in the dictionary? hi invector. you cant mate, it must say fox on your ticket. thats why they have fox and vermin written on your fac. the best way would be for them to word it ( pest control) or sporting purposes. but its like banging your head on a wall asking them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 The problem here is that it is the shooters responsability to know the Law and its interprutations. Simply taking a shot because you think its ok is not gonna hold in a court of law. No matter how many times you quote an Oxford dictionary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invector Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Mine says vermin. No mention of foxes So I can shoot foxes, which are vermin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) Just for the record my FAC states-: The shooting of vermin or, in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife : The humane killing of animals : The ammunition may also be used for the purpose of zeroing in connection with the above purpose(s). So does that allow me to shoot foxes ? Edited January 12, 2006 by hawkeye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invector Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Surely `other wildlife` must include foxes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Hawkeye, I read that to say that you can take any legal quarry. But that is my interpretation, you should seek an explanation from your issuing firearms department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) Hawkeye, I read that to say that you can take any legal quarry. But that is my interpretation, you should seek an explanation from your issuing firearms department. Have already checked today it covers me to shoot fox as it is classed as vermin as long as its not on protected list im ok Edited January 12, 2006 by hawkeye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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