badgers on licence ?

[ppuk]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11314871

whats your view

[HW682]

Already this thread running.. http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...=138257&hl=

[Redgum]

Mmmm, this will be a hard one,on oneside you will have badger lovers armed with baseball bats and cs gas and the other a person licensed with the correct calibre rifle to cull badgers. In between you will have badger baiters and fox shooters looking for a bit of extra sport without correct licensing knowing the police won't be to bothered.

[10WM]

Mmmm, this will be a hard one,on oneside you will have badger lovers armed with baseball bats and cs gas and the other a person licensed with the correct calibre rifle to cull badgers. In between you will have badger baiters and fox shooters looking for a bit of extra sport without correct licensing knowing the police won't be to bothered.

 

 

This will run for some time I fear. The Crebs trails, got interfered with by various anti types in an attempt to make the outcome inconclusive, Yet the trial that was run in Ireland that didnt get interfered with I understand 100% eradicated TB from the test areas.

I dont know about other lampers, but I with my upgraded Night Vision Scope "Maxikite" & "Ordinary Kite spotter" (very rarely use a lamp now), And I quess I maybe see 8 Badgers for every 1 fox on occasions, In the Cheshire / Shropshire/Welsh Border. areas. Nearly all the Farmers wish you to control the Badgers but It is against the law to do so, and I wont break the Law.

 

The government have always try'd to please the Badger watch groups, for the votes, but now there is a slow change in attitude as it has cost over the years in excess of £100 Million pounds per year in compensation to farmers for the tens of thousands of cattle that have to be destroyed. So my thoughts are it will be sorted soon because of the very great financial implications. HMG are addressing the problem(MONEY). There was rumbling's recently about trying to pass this cost on to the farming community. Not practical as anybody who has any dealings with farmer in particular the Dairy farmers,will know. Over the recent years 50% have packed in the Dairy side as the price per litre no longer pay's them to milk. Indeed lots have commiteed suicide with things getting so difficult for the industry.

It is the money that will drive the Cull. with the Farmers running the culls for a sustained four year minimum period, or their appointees doing it, including "Free Shooting" as its called,(sounds a bit like us guys may be getting somework here.)

 

A further problem is, if this does come to pass and one of our bretheren goes and eliminates the Badgers on Farmer Giles land that dont have TB. and down the road Farmers Smiths badgers who do have TB are getting a bit thick on the ground. they will naturally move in to the vacant space, free of Badgers on Farmer Giles, bringing the TB virus with them. So a cull will need to be done on a very big scale to stop the TB. just lessening the numbers wont stop TB. It could make it worse. I have also heard that its in 80% of the Deer polulation in some areas.

It can be detected by inspection of the " Mesentaric Gland ".

 

In Germany where I have spend considerable time sitting in high seats for many hours through the night waiting for Boars, in 12 years I have only ever seen two Badgers, they have a shooting season for them so numbers are kept well down.

 

It will be interesting to see what calibre Rifles the Local Firearms Offices decide are needed to cull a badger??.

 

So it is largely a watch this space situation as HMG are in the no win situation. The Money will decide it, at least thats what my money

 

would be put on.

 

Another thing that is seldom said is, us Humans can catch TB. and also die from it. Okay we get vaccinated as youngsters.

 

and all milk is now TB tested. fair comment.

 

Best wishes to all.

[apache]

10WM - you speak a lot of sense. So far in the first 6 months of this year in Great Britain nearly 20,000 cattle have been slaughtered as TB test reactors.

 

Not to mention the huge number of 'reactor' farms that are closed down and unable to trade - TB kills your business in many ways.

 

The waste is phenomenal. We need to kill all infected badgers. The Krebs trial was flawed by animal rights and the fact that they were reducing numbers in infected areas - they need to kill almost all badgers - or you break up their social structure and they wander.

 

Anyone who has seen a badger at close quarters will realise they are not as cute as 'Wind in the Willsows' would have you believe.

 

May I correct:

 

Another thing that is seldom said is, us Humans can catch TB. and also die from it. Okay we get vaccinated as youngsters.

 

and all milk is now TB tested. fair comment.

 

Pasturisation of milk was brought in initially as a measure to kill TB and it is 100% effective. There is no reliable milk test for TB

[njc110381]

I think that whenever the government brings in protection for an animal species there will become a point where the lack of natural predators means that something needs to be done to keep the population at a healthy level. In some areas Badgers need to be thinned out, not just for TB but for Hedgehogs too. I think as long as it's done sensibly it may not be a bad thing?

[apache]

I think that whenever the government brings in protection for an animal species there will become a point where the lack of natural predators means that something needs to be done to keep the population at a healthy level. In some areas Badgers need to be thinned out, not just for TB but for Hedgehogs too. I think as long as it's done sensibly it may not be a bad thing?

The problem is 'thinning out' makes the TB problem worse.

 

The only way you might get it past the animal right would be that TB is a serious welfare issue to badgers. Selective culling would give an increase in badger welfare. TB's a nasty wasting disease 'consumption' that isn't nice whatever species you are.

[10WM]

The problem is 'thinning out' makes the TB problem worse.

 

The only way you might get it past the animal right would be that TB is a serious welfare issue to badgers. Selective culling would give an increase in badger welfare. TB's a nasty wasting disease 'consumption' that isn't nice whatever species you are.

 

 

Estimates of around 1000 TB reactor cattle killed a week through the past few years and farmers lives/businesses .

 

Plus the £100's of Millions of tax payers money, also deserve protection. don't you think ??

 

not just a few hedgehogs.much as I like hedgehogs. Lets keep are priorites in order please.

[ricky green]

Estimates of around 1000 TB reactor cattle killed a week through the past few years and farmers lives/businesses .

 

Plus the £100's of Millions of tax payers money, also deserve protection. don't you think ??

 

not just a few hedgehogs.much as I like hedgehogs. Lets keep are priorites in order please.

why cant they just put them on genaral licence as a pest,but with a close season and let the farmers deciced what they want on there land.let the people that do a good job at controling the foxes do the same with badgers.no cost to farmers,no cost to taxpayers.badgers get a close season,keep the bagder groups a bit happy(or not) just a thought??

[apache]

why cant they just put them on genaral licence as a pest,but with a close season and let the farmers deciced what they want on there land.let the people that do a good job at controling the foxes do the same with badgers.no cost to farmers,no cost to taxpayers.badgers get a close season,keep the bagder groups a bit happy(or not) just a thought??

Because of their social group structure - what you suggest would make the TB issue very much worse.

 

Badger's have a very well defined social structure. If you remove critical members from the group the structure breaks up and the badgers wander. If they wander they take their TB with them and infect more badgers, farms and cows.

 

What is needed is a very heavy [as close to 100% cull as you can get] in TB areas. The areas with no TB need leaving alone.

[Essex Keeper]

Because of their social group structure - what you suggest would make the TB issue very much worse.

 

Badger's have a very well defined social structure. If you remove critical members from the group the structure breaks up and the badgers wander. If they wander they take their TB with them and infect more badgers, farms and cows.

 

What is needed is a very heavy [as close to 100% cull as you can get] in TB areas. The areas with no TB need leaving alone.

thats hit the nail on the head

[Paul223]

IMHO, were possible each set should have a temporary fence erected, one or two badgers should be live trapped, tested for TB, if TB is present the set should be gassed, collapsed and landscaped, no TB leave well alone, check each set every couple of years till TB is eradicated , TB free sets in the middle of fields should be gated and then collapsed and turned back to pasture

Edited September 21, 2010 by Paul223

[njc110381]

Estimates of around 1000 TB reactor cattle killed a week through the past few years and farmers lives/businesses .

 

Plus the £100's of Millions of tax payers money, also deserve protection. don't you think ??

 

not just a few hedgehogs.much as I like hedgehogs. Lets keep are priorites in order please.

 

 

Funny how the priority always seems to be that we kill whatever gets in the way of making money. There's too much of that sort of thinking going on these days and it's not always right! Now, did the Badger give the cattle TB or did the cattle give the Badger TB? And who was there first?

 

What's the suggestion? That we kill all the Badgers nationwide so that TB is easier to control? What will be next? I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that at all!

[al4x]

badgers and fences don't go that well together I'm yet to see anything temporary they won't go under or through, AFAIK there is no vacine for cattle though Apache will be able to clarify that. We see them and have no problem with them other than they plunder the grey partridge nests and every other ground nesting bird but you do have to put up with that, were we a cattle area i'd have no problem getting involved and it wouldn't be hard to clear up one family group its very much like fox shooting last light out they come. Its good to see a few others don't think they are cuddly and cute the other thread was like setting up the PW springwatch club

 

NJ you can have a farm with completely restricted access so no new animals on as they do after TB is detected in one animal and clean the herd and it still keeps coming back as the badgers re infect the herd. Its not just about money its about peoples livelihoods and if you were a welsh farmer living pretty much hand to mouth you would be pretty ****** your herd kept being closed so you couldn't sell any cattle till they all either tested clean or were slaughtered

Edited September 21, 2010 by al4x

[njc110381]

IMHO, were possible each set should have a temporary fence erected, one or two badgers should be live trapped, tested for TB, if TB is present the set should be gassed, collapsed and landscaped, no TB leave well alone, check each set every couple of years till TB is eradicated , TB free sets in the middle of fields should be gated and then collapsed and turned back to pasture

 

That's more like it!

[al4x]

In the relatively small trial area they culled 11,000 badgers when you combine that with hilly ground its a rather large undertaking to try and test badgers on a nationwide basis

[jonesbach]

they've been protected for so long that they have just bread out of control..! when this happened in the rabbit population, mixi was brought in. Im sure a similar situation arised at that time with people being against the 'eradication' of the bunnies but as we all know, they are back on the rise in numbers in most areas and it is people like us that now control the numbers of rabbits..some on the forum claiming in excess of 4000 being shot by them so far this year! Similarly with foxes, these are controlled and numbers reduced..not 100% got rid of. Now that we have reached a point where it is 'more than likely' that badgers are carrying TB and spreading the disease among cows, we need to take a view on reducing their numbers and concentrating in high risk TB areas mainly. the post above highlights the problem when 11000 were culled in one small area..! Through it all, we have to remember that cows suppply us with far more than badgers do and if something isnt done about the matter then anything dairy will become far more expensive in the future..!

[apache]

Now, did the Badger give the cattle TB or did the cattle give the Badger TB? And who was there first?

 

As far as I know molecular testing suggests that people gave TB to cattle, who then in turn gave it to badgers.

 

What's the suggestion? That we kill all the Badgers nationwide so that TB is easier to control? What will be next? I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that at all!

 

Read what I said before! TB is a huge welfare issue for badgers. They get weak, sick and die a slow lingering wasting death. It's not good for badgers. We just need to cull the infected badgers to prevent spread to healthy badgers.

 

Apache will be able to clarify that.

 

NJ you can have a farm with completely restricted access so no new animals on as they do after TB is detected in one animal and clean the herd and it still keeps coming back as the badgers re infect the herd. Its not just about money its about peoples livelihoods and if you were a welsh farmer living pretty much hand to mouth you would be pretty ****** your herd kept being closed so you couldn't sell any cattle till they all either tested clean or were slaughtered

 

There is a trial badger vaccine, but no cattle vaccine. AFAIK people are doing work on a cattle vaccine, but it would confuse things with testing. Both infection AND vaccination would give you antibodies in the cow that would be picked up on the current skin test for cattle. It would then be difficult/impossible to tell a vaccinated from an infected cow. That would never be acceptable.

 

I have said before on here, the issue with badgers is the TB infects the kidneys and is excreted in large amounts in the urine. In most mammals TB goes to the lungs and is passed my much closer contact. Badgers pee outside the sets and as they forage in cattle feed troughs etc.