help with fac application

[mad1]

i have just been on to phone askin my fao about what the land i shoot on has been cleared for . Cut a long story short he is not willing to grant me a 222 for foxes until i have had enough time using one . I have already joined the local gun club he is happy with that but only to be granted a slot for 22 . So my question is could any one please take me out so i can get some time using this gun in there eyes . I am more than willin to pay for ammo etc. Also i would want to give there details to my feo to prove my abilitys any help would be more than help full .

[David BASC]

err push him again on that - there is NOTHING in law that says you have to have experience of say 222, or 22-250 or any other calibre before you are granted!

 

If you have land with permission, if it’s been cleared already for 222 or higher there is no reason for you not to be granted, assuming there are no other issues such as evidence of intemperate habits.

 

If the land is not already cleared all they have to do is go round to check it out!

 

Contact your shooting association for further guidance.

 

David

[mad1]

err push him again on that - there is NOTHING in law that says you have to have experience of say 222, or 22-250 or any other calibre before you are granted!

 

If you have land with permission, if it’s been cleared already for 222 or higher there is no reason for you not to be granted, assuming there are no other issues such as evidence of intemperate habits.

 

If the land is not already cleared all they have to do is go round to check it out!

 

Contact your shooting association for further guidance.

 

David

thanks for that i did not want to push incase i was wrong . Who would i need to contact if he gets awkward about it

[Devon Fox]

If you havent already - join the BASC (David above is an employee).

 

You can tell the FLO that you have spoken with them and relay information above - if they still arent playing ball someone from the organization will I am sure make contact on your behalf.

 

Its no bad idea that you get experience as well though.

[al4x]

exactly I think its irresponsible to let people out with no experience with centrefires and pretty indefensible in the public eye. If you've experience with rimfires or have been shooting with someone with a centrefire its different but its a very different ballgame to just get one on intial grant no mentoring no nothing.

[mad1]

exactly I think its irresponsible to let people out with no experience with centrefires and pretty indefensible in the public eye. If you've experience with rimfires or have been shooting with someone with a centrefire its different but its a very different ballgame to just get one on intial grant no mentoring no nothing.

yes i fully agree but its catch 22 how do you get time on a calibre if the gun club only allows 22 or pistol calibre

[al4x]

yes i fully agree but its catch 22 how do you get time on a calibre if the gun club only allows 22 or pistol calibre

 

 

even a year with a rimfire gives you a certain appreciation for them, or going out with someone with one prepares you as far as safe shooting is concerned.

[artschool]

a persons attitude is the most important thing.

 

how many people do you know who have a driving licence but are rubbish motorists?

[nickcass23]

I had 22 rimfire for 6 months then asked for 17hmr no problem, then waited 6 months and put alot of rounds down the rimmys. Put in for .223 and got it no questions asked! I think its a good idea to get some experience first!!!

[mad1]

looks like i will have to wait a bit longer . So i am right in thinkin i can apply for 22 for now though yeah . As long as my permission is cleared for it . Thanks for your replys everyone i dont want to apply too soon to be turned down .

[apache]

looks like i will have to wait a bit longer . So i am right in thinkin i can apply for 22 for now though yeah . As long as my permission is cleared for it . Thanks for your replys everyone i dont want to apply too soon to be turned down .

If I was you I would put down for .22RF, .17HMR and FAC AIR all with mods.

 

The reason? You only pay a fee for a variation if you increase the number of firearms (and mods) on your cert. Get a slot for FAC air, when you've had some experience with the rimmys put in for a 1 for 1 variation (free) and sacrifice your FAC Air slot.

 

Is what I'd do.

[mad1]

If I was you I would put down for .22RF, .17HMR and FAC AIR all with mods.

 

The reason? You only pay a fee for a variation if you increase the number of firearms (and mods) on your cert. Get a slot for FAC air, when you've had some experience with the rimmys put in for a 1 for 1 variation (free) and sacrifice your FAC Air slot.

 

Is what I'd do.

is that ok for a first application all in one go

[apache]

is that ok for a first application all in one go

My guess would be that 75% plus of first applications put those three down. You can justify a case for all three, and if land is cleared up to .22 they are there or smaller. Simples

[Essex Keeper]

dont want to hijack the thread but im trying to get my fac for .22rf have 400+ acres to shoot on ive had my shootgun for 8years and used my airrifle for about 5years fors rabbits do think he will want the same from me. i use to go out with theare local game keeper all the time till he pasted away

[David BASC]

Any member who wants help on any firearms licensing issues can call our firearms team - but as a first step it is always useful to take a look on the firearms section of the BASC web site and look at the guidance and factsheets , most questions and points of law can easily be fond there - http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/fire...fact-sheets.cfm

 

David

[njc110381]

You'd think there would be someone here who needs a lamp man for the winter? It's not like he even has to shoot, rather just spend time out with someone who does so he can learn from their experience.

 

Come on lads, if he was closer to me I'd help him.

 

EDIT... Strangely enough there don't seem to be people in my area with this problem! Our force seem very accepting of new applicants, perhaps with the view that you have to start somewhere?

Edited September 24, 2010 by njc110381

[mad1]

thank you for that

[Lez325]

even a year with a rimfire gives you a certain appreciation for them, or going out with someone with one prepares you as far as safe shooting is concerned.

 

 

My centre fire application was granted, purely on the amount of time and ammo I put in with my 17 HMR

 

so even rimfire experience counts for a lot

 

Les

[al4x]

My centre fire application was granted, purely on the amount of time and ammo I put in with my 17 HMR

 

so even rimfire experience counts for a lot

 

Les

 

 

exactly same here and personally it was still a big step up going to centrefire. Its one thing the BASC talking FEO's into giving them out to people with little experience but not a stance i think is for the best for all of us.

[Farmers saint]

The FAO did ask if i had fired a 223. I had to reply with after spending 14 years in the Army yes and a lot bigger as well Not much call for a MILAN for the charlies

He was happy enough.

 

If you was down my way I called take you out every night if need be.

Good luck with you application.

 

Allan...

[njc110381]

I went about things a little the wrong way. My first rifle was my 6.5x55! I did have a mentor though.

[David BASC]

There is nothing in law to prevent you from asking for a full bore calibre on first application – take a look at the Home Office guidance here:

http://www.basc.org.uk/en/utilities/docume...CD197523083F073

 

Its all a matter of good reason and having access to somewhere which is already cleared for that calibre of above, or to land which can be cleared for that calibre or above.

 

Putting silly restrictions in the way of people wanting to go shooting is not way to preserve or promote the sport.

 

The number of insurance claims from full bore rifles I can could on the figures of 1 hand from the last 15 years, 22rf though…another matter!!

 

David

[Highlander]

I’m sorry David (BASC) but if your stance on this is to say it’s perfectly OK for a complete novice to be granted an FAC for a full bore rifle then I for one think you (and if that’s an official BASC stance) are well wrong.

 

The fact that there have not been many if any claims on BASC insurance by fb rifle shooters should not and is not a reason to suppose everything is alright with your theory.

 

BASC and others run courses for would be rifle shooters and I believe it should be compulsory that a novice either takes one of those or has to be mentored for some time, 6 months/a year maybe before being given carte blanche to go shooting with a rifle rf or fb.

It is not just their competence with a rifle that I’m concerned about but also their knowledge of the laws, the common sense attitude, the safety etc etc. I could relate several instances where I have ‘met’ shooters out on ground where we might both have permission to be but only one of us has taken the trouble to let landowner know we’d be out. I’m also amazed at the lack of knowledge some people have about rifles, even simple stuff like range which most seem incapable of judging. I could go on with instances that have set the hairs on the back of my neck tingling and some that have made my stomach turn so YES I think you are well wrong on this point! Despite the current belief that we have some of the most stringent SGC/FAC laws in this country that is not the case, it’s all too easy for someone with no experience whatever to be granted one and it’s only a matter of luck that there aren’t many accidents with them.

 

I'm not in favour of putting restrictions in the way of newbie shooters but even would be car drivers have to pass a test!

[al4x]

glad I'm not alone in this Highlander as I feel its wrong of the shooting community to push for just anyone to be let loose with one. Clearing land is the biggest load of bull and if you want to do away with anything do away with that, there must be very little cleared land in the country where you couldn't be dangerous with a full bore rifle if you don't have an appreciation for safety. The fact that BASC has pushed in their submission on the firearms comittee to relax laws and make FAC's like SGC's where a novice could go out and buy any rifle is simply barmy and ruins their submission which should be for sensible regulation. Yes we have FEO's making the rules up as they go along which should be stopped but the current system fundamentally works, we have to accept you have to show a need for obtaining a firearm and that means we are accountable to the anti lobby and in the current climate asking for laws to be relaxed simply ruins credibility. The NGO put in a far better submission suggesting a more centralised licensing system where FEO's all worked on the same basis which would be bliss. We have a good team here in Herts common sense seems to prevail, I first gained rimfires and then moved onto centrefires no conditions but time spent with other people etc counted but then we seem to have FEO's who know what they are doing so little arguing seems to go on.

[David BASC]

As I said, there is nothing in law to stop you having a full bore rifle on first grant of FAC, nor is there is anything in law that says you must be mentored, nor is there anything in law to say you must pass a test before you go shooting and there is nothing in law to say you must have experience on 22rf for X years before you can go up to 22 CF – hence my reference to the Home Office Guidance.

 

The number of claims from FB is an indicator, and shows that the current system (although flawed in many ways) is not putting people at risk from FB rifle shooters in my view. That is MY view

 

BASC is absolutely opposed to compulsory testing as a condition of firearm or shotgun ownership. However people who are new to the sport must accept that the onus is on them to develop the knowledge and skill to use a shotgun or firearm safely, this could be through being ‘mentored’ by a more experienced shooter for a while to ‘show you the ropes’ or if this is not possible through a training course.

 

But as you say we are also opposed to putting restrictions in the way of new shooters. Agreed it’s a narrow path to travel and trust me we get criticized for our policy being too lax and by others for it being too restrictive!

 

Al4x is lucky with his FLO team, as he says common sense prevails, but its not the same everywhere as i am sure he knows, and others, who are long experienced shooters, are having to pass tests of be mentored just because they want to shoot a deer on the same and with the same rifle that they have been shooting fox on for a decade! Crazy!

 

Central to the BASC submission to the HASC, a simplified licensing system – which we want- will go a long way to consistency on the ground, in summary our recommendations were:

 

• The Firearms Acts 1968 – 1997 should be consolidated into a single Act.

• No wholesale review of firearms law should take place in the current emotionally charged climate.

• Any new firearms legislation should be divided into two acts; criminal justice matter and licensing admin

• Appeals against police licensing decisions should be dealt with by a tribunal.

• Airgun control laws should not be devolved to Scotland.

• The current regime for licensing shotguns should be extended to sporting rifles.

 

David