FAC requirements/regulations for a DSC1

[Redgum]

So what's your point. The police are there to apply the law. Show me where in the firearms legislation that it says that animal welfare is part of an application or that you legally need to jump through the hoops that the FLO out in front of you? It's not there. The police need to ensure that you can prove good reason. Having a DSC or a deer management plan are not good reason for the grant of a firearm. Having deer on your land and permission to shoot it IS provided you meet the licensing criteria and conditions (land suitable for the calibre or an open ticket)

 

Don't get me started on BASC. It's been done to death by all and sundry in other topics.

 

I think that most of us (including me) generally take a polite and stealthy approach and that's what they want. It's their reason for existence and their power base. Which is why there are so many different interpretations across the country. But sometimes you may have to take a stand on unreasonable conditions.

 

We don't have a right to a firearm as we do with a shotgun but if we meet the mandatory criteria laid down by law and can show good reason then they should apply the law and grant one, not their own rules designed to refuse (although in fairness it may not be theirs but their masters dictat).

 

Finally it's not always a good idea to get a refusal in writing. Remember on an application/renewal there is a question about being previously refused or part refused that you have to answer. A refusal in writing would have to be entered here.

 

SEE YOU DOWN THE POST OFFICE

Whats my point, well the point is like it or not if you want to shoot then be prepared to bend over and take it up the axx sometime or other whether its a rambler straying off a footpath with his dog running around uncontrolably to tell you that pigeons have rights and all you can do is smile politely and explain what your doing when hes trespassing with an out of control animal or a civy FEO with a pen. We are a minority and shooting gets less popular by the masses day by day, there seems no point in agravating the situation, as for BASC, not perfect but the lone voice will not be heard old mate.

[fortune]

How long ago did you apply for your 6.5 then, they never gave me the option of a name mentor, could have supplied one no bother. In matter of fact my FEO, who I will not name, told me I needed the DSC1 to start with and if I was given the variation I may still need a named mentor for a period of time. I rang BASC and they said there was nothing they could do and maybe I should just go and pay for a half dozen accomp stalks on top of my DSC1 and I may not have to be mentored. This said, the very same FEO told me I couldnt change a FAC air rifle slot for a 243 as the calibre jump was to great, well we all know thats pants for a start. Word of advice, don't rely on your FEO to know about the law.

Afer much advice, a very respected stalking frienc of mine told me to apply for 243, 308 and 416 and if they refuse ask for it in writing, we all know were that sort of attitude gets us don't we.

The long and short of it was I did my DSC1 and applied for 243 for deer and fox, it meant that I had to have the land checked so there was a slight delay. I recieved my variation with deer and fox with no mentoring clause, six months later ( and a few deer) I applied to have the license opened which was done with no problem.

I was talking to a fellow shooter who is with the same force and he has been told the same, DSC1 or forget the deer variation and this chap has been shooting foxes for 15years with his 222.

It really is such a lottery, I heard of chaps applying for 243 and 308 on their first FAC and getting em both no bother while recently a chap on here had been asked for a mentor for a .22LR.

 

After reading the above it is not difficult to see why basc keep getting a beating on shooting matters. I was a member for many years but when you ring up and get all of this “ well hey ho. There’s not much we can do about it and Be a good fellow and don’t rock the boat. Go away and do as you are told sort of rubbish they will continue to get a slating. The annual subs just go up and up and it’s not until they don’t deliver and rattle cages that you will see the light. I know that there are many on this site that sing there praises but out in the shooting field all I hear is bad mouthing of the org.

As a previous posters stated there is no legal requirement for dsc anything or mentoring or that you can only have certain calibers to start off with. Don’t get me wrong, Someone going from a fac air rifle to a 308 is a massive jump in power range and lethality and should have a bit of help and guidance but there is no legal legislation that states that it is a must have. All I see of all of this is an exercise to see how much money can be squeezed out of any given situation. Why should you have to pay for a variation for a different caliber a few months after you have paid for a grant defies any sort of logic. I personally own and use calibres ranging from .22 rf that are used for prone target shooting on club ranges and sporting use up through .17 rem cf .222, .223. for fox and 243, 270 for range use and deer and wild boar. I never had a mentor and don’t have a dsc anything. The only thing that I would get would be a meat hygiene ticket if I were to start butchering and selling the carcasses. Needless to say I am no longer a member of basc as I just consider that it has lost direction and purpose for the members that it should protect and support rather than a political lobby and a pseudo shooters club.

[DaveK]

just beating me gums mate, crack on.

 

No probs Mark, just beat them til they go red.

[DaveK]

Whats my point, well the point is like it or not if you want to shoot then be prepared to bend over and take it up the axx sometime or other whether its a rambler straying off a footpath with his dog running around uncontrolably to tell you that pigeons have rights and all you can do is smile politely and explain what your doing when hes trespassing with an out of control animal or a civy FEO with a pen. We are a minority and shooting gets less popular by the masses day by day, there seems no point in agravating the situation, as for BASC, not perfect but the lone voice will not be heard old mate.

 

You've lost me there. TOTALLY. Ramblers? Dogs? Take it up the butt? I don't know what you're on mate but it's probably not condusive to mixing with firearms.

 

I've been shooting for more years than I care to mention and have never had to take it up the butt and am never likely to. And you don't need to if you know what you're talking about, can put a balanced argument together and get help from a shooting organisation that isn't afraid to rock the boat on your behalf if the FLO's being unreasonable and working to their own agenda. All of which can be done in the right way without aggravating any situation. Sometimes you know to back off and do so. FLO's like nothing better than to win something back, you just need to play the game so you win what you want and they win something that you weren't bothered about anyway.

 

I don't know of anyone that's been represented by their shooting organisation when they were in the right, and been penalised for it. No doubt there are some and some people who will know of people who have. I know of at least one on here who used their shooting organisation very effectively over a .243 and the FLO did a damned quick U turn when told where they stood in law if they maintained their position.

 

Have you read the firearms amendment act or the police guidance in any great detail? If not then maybe you should, it's confusing but a damned good read once you get your head round it. I think I've said all I want to say in this thread, it's a waste of time arguing.

[Redgum]

one point we agree on then.

[Frenchieboy]

Here we go again! Yet another thread that was asking for a bit of advice that has turned into a free for all! How long before it turns into a full blown slanging match I wonder?

I give up!

[mick miller]

Don't give up Frenchieboy, there' always some with a tub to thump...

 

For my part I didn't need to spend £400 on a DSC1 course, it's likely I may do it sometime in the future but for now I'm sticking with the 2 stalkers I shoot with for hands-on and practical experience in the field. Many people who pass the DSC1 may have a piece of paper but have never even shot a deer, let alone taken part in the gralloch and subsequent inspection and processing.

 

I used the two experienced mentors I have been shooting with as referees, stating the stalks I had already taken part in, the calibres I had used and the experience post cull I had. A plus for me is that I am also a part-time butcher working predominantly with all types of game, so I could also prove a genuine interest in something other than just the shooting of the beast, that really worked in my favour. After having had a FAC for just over a year I managed to get all calibres up to .243 opened, the only caveat I have is that for deer stalking I must be accompanied. After a year I can reapply to have that restriction lifted.

 

I know you have the hummer same as me and as this is a capable round for fox I don't think you need the triple two anymore anyway, the .243 will cope with everything up to a red and is a great foxing round too.

 

EDIT: I forgot to add that the DSC1 manual is just £30, you can read and re-read as often as you like then test yourself with the questions in the back. The DVD on gralloching is quite handy too if you haven't had much hands on at this (nothing compares to hands on though believe me!) despite a couple a couple of minor mistakes in the film. There are a few ways to gralloch though and this DVD contains just one of them, it isn't the definitive method by any means. I don't deal with the anus and reproductive organs the way the chap in the DVD does, as it leaves the part of the haunch exposed to air thus spoiling some of the most expensive part of the animal, but I am lucky in that one of my mentors is an experienced slaughterman, so I've been taught a slightly better way to do it. 99% of it is good information though.

Edited October 31, 2010 by mick miller

[Raja Clavata]

Here we go again! Yet another thread that was asking for a bit of advice that has turned into a free for all! How long before it turns into a full blown slanging match I wonder?

I give up!

 

Don't take it to heart mate - there's three types of posters on this board - the learned, the learners and the know-alls (bit like real life really).

 

Just to share my experience - I was granted .243 for fox without any daft stiplulations after having .22lr & .17HMR for just over a year. Told to come back and talk to them about deer once I got DSC1. Post DSC1 I put in for .308 for large deer and boar - it was granted but with an "accompanied by experienced shooter clause". Can't make my mind up how far to push my challenging of what I consider to be a ridiculous and totally unecessary condition. My principles say push it all the way but by the same token shooting is my escape from the sress and strain of the real world, so am loathed to introduce agg into it (that's what work's for right). BASC advised me what to write in response but I'm not sure it's in my best interests to make a fuss on this occasion.

[markbivvy]

nobody is falling out peter.

this shows you what deer rifle application is like up and down the country.

if nothing else it should give you an idea of what may come your way.

[Redgum]

nobody is falling out peter.

this shows you what deer rifle application is like up and down the country.

if nothing else it should give you an idea of what may come your way.

But all said and done,once the hurdles are passed and your sitting in your high seat on a fine autumn morning and a fallow creeps out of the wood, the heart starts pumping and all the hassle just makes sense.

 

And by the way Frenchieboy, swinging a few handbags on here will not hurt anyone, Oh and you will notice by most of my posts I'm always right. :blink: :yp:

[DaveK]

Except when he's wrong :blink: :lol: