What round for cormorants?

[Evil Elvis]

A lake that I used to fish has askedme to assist in cormorant control(with a defra licence of course), They tried shotties before with very little effect and want them shot by rifle.

 

I have a public liablity insurance and an open ticket.........sooooooo I was wondering what to use, i have killed them with FAC air(legally at another club) and if close up im sure a .22lr would be effective....BUT im worried about richochets. They wont be opening the gates to the public while im shooting, it will all be done at first light, but still i dont want little lumps of lead pinging around.

 

The HMR is a very accurate tool, is great for head shots and safer richochet wise, especially using ballistic tips.

 

However i think that the .222 with ballistic 50gr and body shots would be more "humane" (these are tough birds)...having never shot my .222 over water....what is the likley hood that they would richochet after going through? I think a ballistic tip would be fine but would like some other opinions.

 

Does anyone have any experience of this?

[Paddy Galore!]

just how tough are they? more so than a crow? the only problem i could forsee with your 222 is even if it does hit the water and fragment then there is still the risk of the fragments bouncing off.

Personally i'd use a .17, much less debris to worry about.

[Scully]

The .17 will do them no problem.

[Vermincinerator]

22-250, Berger 52grn Varmint match straight in the chest, its highly unlikely that a varmint type bullet or even fragments there off will ricochet off the surface of the water, especially those of hollow point design.

 

Ian.

[hobbit]

22-250, Berger 52grn Varmint match straight in the chest, its highly likey that a varmint type bullet or even fragments there off will ricochet off the surface of the water, especially those of hollow point design.

 

Ian.

[poontang]

A decent wildfowling load with a shotgun will do it no problem. Simple. They're not that tough, trust me

[Bleeh]

Yeah, they've not that tough.

 

Shoot them with the .17hmr. Blasting them in the chest would be deadly anyhow.

[Vermincinerator]

hobbit, so what you are saying is that a bullet is MORE likely to ricochet off water then not, hmmmm....interesting, not in my experience it isn't.

 

Ian.

[Hornet 6]

If your going for chest shots you will shoot one a day, and then only if one presents itself while drying wings.

Small very fast 40 grain noslers (.223) work for me, as do 35 grain V-max from the Hornet, you wait till only one is on the surface and take that, then if your luck holds you may get another couple as they surface.

Big birds they maybe, but swimming they present a very small target, maybe 12 inches long and 1 1/2 inch high.

Also have somebody positioned with a shotgun to take what he can as the fly off, which they will do in a direction away from you, regardless of wind, if they have enough room.

In my book a .22lr is not to be used anywhere near water, the HMR is marginal, it will stop them taking off, but you will need to finish them off later when the rest have flown.

 

Neil.

[Evil Elvis]

A decent wildfowling load with a shotgun will do it no problem. Simple. They're not that tough, trust me

 

Did some with shotties before, they needed 36gbbs, which were effective..BUT..the lake is vast and you cannot get to within shotgun range anymore!!! I found with the shottie too, you got a better kill if they were going away from you than coming at you. ...?the way the feathers lay?

 

just how tough are they? more so than a crow?

 

yep much tougher!!! and a million times more smelly!!

 

We are waiting to hear from Defra, the lake is safe for centre fire and rimfire, its a high sided gravel working with lots of bays and islands, back stops a plenty. if its anything like last time they let us shot......4 a year!!! :blink:

[Evil Elvis]

Thanks hornet, last time i did this I found that sustained pressure drove them off after only a few weeks and it was enough to just walk around at first light, thing is they are getting bolder and bolder, but have also sussed that if they go to the middle of the bays and take off they are out of shotgun range!!!

 

So from your reply youve done a few? I did some a few years ago with an 80ftlb air rifle with 25grain slugs, very effectivley, but it was on a tiny lake and one that was easy to conceal yourself around.

 

This lake is very different, they have so many bays that you could find a cormorant in each one! They dont come in huge numbers 3-4 so one a day for a week or two would be fine by me.

 

Where did you aim...base of neck?

Edited December 10, 2010 by Evil Elvis

[hobbit]

hobbit, so what you are saying is that a bullet is MORE likely to ricochet off water then not, hmmmm....interesting, not in my experience it isn't.

 

Ian.

err YES I don't and wouldn't shoot over water with a rifle. period.

[Hornet 6]

A shotgun will do it the ones flyinga circuit before landing, I used to do plenty with a .410, just lead on the head, or shoot them up the ***.

Breast shots with a shotgun at range are a waste of time, cut one open you will soon see why.

 

if its anything like last time they let us shot......4 a year!!! :blink:

 

That's plenty mate, just don't get caught more than 4 times a year

 

Neil.

[Evil Elvis]

There is a 20ft embankment all the way around this lake, so I can shoot in a downward trajectory at all times and can more or less guarentee an island behind each shot(obviously if i cant i wont take the shot.)

[Evil Elvis]

Breast shots with a shotgun at range are a waste of time, cut one open you will soon see why.

 

yep done that, wont do it again....36 small roach and perch, 3 million worms and a smell i wont EVER forget!!!

 

 

That's plenty mate, just don't get caught more than 4 times a year

 

I know what you mean lol

[Vermincinerator]

If your going for chest shots you will shoot one a day, and then only if one presents itself while drying wings.

 

Thats exactly what i did with the four we were allowed to take, they like to dry their wings on a particular ski ramp, a perfect target at about 130yds from the dirt perimeter track around the lake.

 

Ian.

[Evil Elvis]

There i would have a problem, there are 2 huge electric pylons at either end of the lake and they dry themselves on these.NOT a safe shot lol. And you cant sit under them with a shottie, its too dangerous.

[Zabala]

Cormorant decoys work a treat. When the birds do their initial reccy of the water you will find the whole group will fly well within range of the waiting shotguns. Heron decoys also seem to give the birds confidence that all is safe. Uttings sell both, a good investment for the angling club.

By the way I think the licence is now issued by Natural England and not Defra.

[njc110381]

With the little experience I have of this I found that 52grn A-Max from my .223 did the trick. The bullet will pass through and may or may not ricochet depending on how the shot is taken. The viewpoint you have to take when you take the shot is will your backstop be high enough to stop the bullet from the angle it will be coming back up at? The other option is to shoot down onto them so the bullet exits under water. That way it doesn't ricochet. With something like a .222 or .223 it doesn't matter where you shoot them from as long as you can picture the "tennis ball in a barrel" (make sure the bullet at some point passes the important bits to get a clean kill).

 

Ideally, the more power you can put behind a really light and fragmenting bullet the less likely it is to come up. If you can load some 30grn Barnes Varmint Grenades then all the better, unlike many bullets they are designed to be opened up by hydraulic force - the water content of your target or the lake!

[Vermincinerator]

The accuracy of Varmint Grenades leaves a lot to be desired when compared to premium varmint bullets but for a cormorant sized target at a sensible distance they will be devastating .

 

Ian.

[Evil Elvis]

f you can load some 30grn Barnes Varmint Grenades then all the better, unlike many bullets they are designed to be opened up by hydraulic force - the water content of your target or the lake!

 

Thanks guys, thats sounds interesting!! The trajectory can nearly always be from a 20 ft high bank so its a very good downward trajectory. Ill have to see if the licence is granted again.