Brittany retrieving help

[Daveo26]

Iv got a 5 month old Brittany and iv been training her using Joe Irvings book for springers

(cant find any Brittany books)

Anyway all the books iv read say dont push the retreiving so i havent.

When she was younger she would happily fetch a tennis ball back that i rolled along the floor i did this maybe 5 times in total perhaps once a week.

Now she wont retreive.

I see her bounding around the garden carrying everything Sticks, balls and even a dried out rabbit skin that she found (i was drying it to wrap round a dummy)

But when i call her she drops it and then comes back.

No amount of encouragement helps.

She acts like she is doing something wrong when i call her when she is carrying.

She gets very submissive.

She is a sensitive dog anyway.

She is coming along nicely in every other respect, her recall is excellent i can make her sit with hand signals and stay untill i call her but the retreiving is worrying me.

I watched a 6 months old lab fetch a cold duck last week and his owner said it was the first duck the dog had seen, it did it so naturally.

Any ideas what i should do?

[kent]

first don't worry it will transmit to the dog, keep in mind what you want to achieve think why this happens (what is YOUR dog thinking) and engineer things around its behavour in you favour. No doubt you will get loads of tips but you sound like you understand your dog and will work things through

[Daveo26]

Cheers ill bear that in mind.

I been going through the Irving book "training spaniels"

Im going to try using the rabbit skin, the book suggests if a dog bounds after a thrown object sniffs then ignores it, the object is not interesting enough or the dog is a reluctant retreiver but as i see her happily carrying things around the garden i dont think she is a reluctant carrier.

Perhaps its me or my wife, someone must have chastised her for carrying something.

So im going to allow her to play freely with the skin and ill join in and see if she will so signs of retreiving

Cheers for the reply Kent im going to keep it relaxed

[Tom&Dexter]

what she like with a pair of socks rolled up out of the washing basket sounds silly but mine will retrieve and sock raid all day if allowed

[Dirty Harry]

The dog is still young for a HPR. Having trained with a lady who has had Brittneys for a long time I would suggest get some HPR training. She said to me that although they are called spaniels they should not be trained like one.

My GWP will NOT retrieve dummies, balls or any toys but he will retrieve cold, warm or live game every time.

If I were you I would stick with the obedience work nailing the stop whistle and only when that is 100% then start with the hunting, pointing and retrieving in that order.

 

Where abouts do you live?

 

Harry

[WGD]

I'm sure you're aware, but for the avoidance of doubt the Brittany is an HPR as Dirty Harry says, and not a spaniel. Using Joe Irvings book to train a Brittany is a bit like using it to train a lab.

 

Get som HPR training books, DVDs to help you.

 

As far as retrieving goes, your dog obviously has no issue with lifting/carrying so it is a response to you that is making the dog worried (normally as you say a pup has been reprimanded for chewing, pulling the washing, picking up shoes etc etc). Work to install a very strong recall then get her used to holding a dummy or a ball next to you, pop it into her mouth and praise her, but don't force it. Slowly and gently until she is 100% happy carrying things around you and close to you before you start asking her to bring them to you.

 

I would get some one to one help if you can, a decent trainer seeing this dog would make it much easier to assess.

Edited December 23, 2010 by WGD

[welsh1]

Your Brittany is still young,and will surprise you with the inbuilt hunt retrieve instinct it has as it matures.

With my Brittany i made it all a game,i started in the garage, with a pigeon wing,and gently teased him letting him get it off me a few times,then put him in a sit and place the wing the other side of the garage,then give him the fetch command,he will get it ,and 9-10 times will bring it back because he wants to play,when he does bring it back,loads of praise and rubs,he will soon associate bringing things to you as getting praise.then do the same in the garden,and eventually show him it in the field,and then hide it in the undergrowth,he will surprise you by finding it and bringing it back, and then interchange with different wings,and rabbits,remember loads of praise.

 

Dont expect your brittany to behave like an ess they are a bit more headstrong,and in the field will stick their head in a bush and use their nose rather than crash in like a ess,but they will find game and mark(point)and will stay steady when shot over,mine retrieves very well.

 

The brittany is a work horse,he will go all day,and you need to make sure he gets a drink,mine will drink anything in the field,from a muddy puddle to standing in a stream up to his neck,just to get a drink.

 

I have a video in the video section,showing Jake in the woods,i took this after being out for a couple of hours,and you can see how much energy he still has,he will go constantly.

 

The best thing to install is the stop and recall as they will follow a scent forever,at the end of the video jake stops dead,that is just practice.

 

But your dog is still a pup,let him have his puppy years with a bit of gentle training,you wont regret getting a britanny.

[Daveo26]

Thanks everyone.

Tom&Dexter she wont touch them, iv tried.

Dirty Harry, Im in Huddersfield.

Im aware that she is a HPR but intend to use the dog for rough shooting and as such thought the basic training for an ESS and Brittany or Lab for that matter would be the same.

Like recall, staying, sitting and reteiving ect.

Am i way off the mark then?

can anyone recommend a good HPR training book?

Also i know she is young and im perfectly happy with how she is in other respects

Im not a training nazi she does get to play

[WGD]

Im aware that she is a HPR but intend to use the dog for rough shooting and as such thought the basic training for an ESS and Brittany or Lab for that matter would be the same.

Like recall, staying, sitting and reteiving ect.

Am i way off the mark then?

 

No mate, the basics are the same as you rightly say. But Training Spaniels is a very specific, very good book which is aimed at ultimately leading to a trial standard spaniel.

 

IMO you won't get the best out of your HPR as a rough shooting dog, where she will excel, by following this book.

 

If your training can put all the components of a good HPR together you will have an excellent dog, best of luck

[Dirty Harry]

I started with the Versatile Gundog by Guy Wallace. It's not bad but you pick the bits you want out of these books.

I was told with a hpr that retrieving is the last thing you concentrate on.

I started with obedience and did not move on until I had that nailed.

I then did hunting making sure I can get him out far enough and turn on the whistle.

I did pointing using a long lead and caged quail and warm game. Living on a farm I have access to good ground with game on it.

The only retrieves I did with him were cold and warm game.

It's important to keep the disciplines separate. If the dog knows after a point it will get a retrieve you may struggle to stop the dog running in. Only put them together when they are really good at each separate task and keep revisiting the basics of stop and recall.

You are a bit far from me and the club I use but I am sure there must be someone near you who could help.

 

Harry

[Daveo26]

IMO you won't get the best out of your HPR as a rough shooting dog, where she will excel, by following this book.

 

I dont understand what you mean.

Are you saying i wont get the best out of her us training her using the Irving book or as a HPR breed is no use as a rough shooters dog?

[welsh1]

I dont understand what you mean.

Are you saying i wont get the best out of her us training her using the Irving book or as a HPR breed is no use as a rough shooters dog?

 

Brittany's are a very versatile dog,mine does rough shooting,pigeon decoying,and a bit of duck shooting,if you are going to use it for mainly rough shooting then that will be fine,it will work the rough and hedges,but it wont smash through the undergrowth like a ess.That said it will get in there and flush things out,it excels at pointing when it finds something,giving you a chance to get into position,and then getting it to move in a bit it will flush whatever is there,you will need to work on the hold at this point,as you dont want it running on into your kill zone.

Brittanys have a great nose,and when i shoot pigeons or game and it lands in the rough/woods etc,he always amazes me by finding it.They predominantly follow ground scent,but only yesterday mine did not see the woodcock take off,but as he came round the bush he started to follow the air scent,and was 100yds away before i recalled him.

 

I would train him for what you need,they are always ready to learn at a later date,mine originally worked with hawks,but now does rifles and shotguns,and he knows the difference,and works differently with each firearm.

[WGD]

I dont understand what you mean.

Are you saying i wont get the best out of her us training her using the Irving book or as a HPR breed is no use as a rough shooters dog?

 

Sorry it wasn't clear, the dog (breed) will be an excellent rough shooting dog, the benefit as welsh says is that she should hold point until you get into a position when you can shoot and then flush when instructed to do so. She should then sit to flush, you shoot the flushed bird, she marks it down and retreives when told... in a perfect world

 

In holding point rather than flushing game on contact she can cover far more ground than a springer or cocker without moving game on and so is excellent for rough shooting where game may be sparse.

 

You will probably make something of her through the fact she is disciplined if you use Training Spaniels as a guide but it is not the reference point I would start with for an HPR.

 

I think Rory Major did an HPR training DVD series available through Paul French Video, that would be worth a look.

[Daveo26]

Right she is still not showing any interest in retreiving and now i know why.

Whilst sitting in the kitchen i heard the mrs say "Maggie (the dogs name) NO"

I went to see what she had done. She had tried to bring a smelly old bone in that she had found in the garden.

After a few swear words aimed at our lass

I explained that the dog must never be told off or scared if she carries anything again!

This in my mind is the root of the problem.

Iv tried throwing balls, dummies and rolled up rabbit skins and she runs up (sometimes) sniffs or even slightly mouths the object then leaves it.

I firmly believe she expects a telling off if anyone sees her pick something up.

This morning i let her out of the kennel and in the first few excited seconds she picked up a tennis ball then today on a walk through some thick cover she found another tennis ball and picked it up for about 1/2 a second before remembering i was there and dropping it.

Last night i gently opened her mouth and placed a rolled up rabbit skin in the stroked her and gave her lots of quiet praise.

Is that a good thing or not? Please can someone offer any advice to start to cure this?

Cheers Daveo

[WGD]

then get her used to holding a dummy or a ball next to you, pop it into her mouth and praise her, but don't force it. Slowly and gently until she is 100% happy carrying things around you and close to you before you start asking her to bring them to you.

[Daveo26]

Sound thats what ill do then, Thank you.

[WGD]

Good luck mate, patience and she'll be fine.

[al4x]

Right she is still not showing any interest in retreiving and now i know why.

Whilst sitting in the kitchen i heard the mrs say "Maggie (the dogs name) NO"

I went to see what she had done. She had tried to bring a smelly old bone in that she had found in the garden.

After a few swear words aimed at our lass

I explained that the dog must never be told off or scared if she carries anything again!

This in my mind is the root of the problem.

Iv tried throwing balls, dummies and rolled up rabbit skins and she runs up (sometimes) sniffs or even slightly mouths the object then leaves it.

I firmly believe she expects a telling off if anyone sees her pick something up.

This morning i let her out of the kennel and in the first few excited seconds she picked up a tennis ball then today on a walk through some thick cover she found another tennis ball and picked it up for about 1/2 a second before remembering i was there and dropping it.

Last night i gently opened her mouth and placed a rolled up rabbit skin in the stroked her and gave her lots of quiet praise.

Is that a good thing or not? Please can someone offer any advice to start to cure this?

Cheers Daveo

 

 

personally I doubt that is the issue, HPR's are very variable on retrieving and you have to have a bit of luck on your side. I don't think my GWP is ever going to be a really good retriever and she is the same does it when she wants and much better on game than dummies which unless covered with rabbit fur she won't bother with at all. Foxes she is fine, pheasants ok but less good or keen as the quarry gets smaller. Part of the issue is retrieving involves stopping hunting and she is a machine at that, really all you can do is try cold game to start and see if that gets the instinct going and take it from there.

[Daveo26]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e6vNUah9vM

 

 

I was sat stroking the dog and I offered her various things her reaction was pretty funny so I thought id share it with you guys.

I recon she might not be cut out for picking up............

I have been asked by several people if they could have her as a pet im going to think about it.

I just cant imagine she would take any pleasure in retrieving even i did manage to get her to do it.

[Dirty Harry]

Daveo,

 

I don't want to sound negative and like I am having a pop at you but you do seem to have given up all hope very early. Your dog is still a puppy and at that age I had not done any shooting training at all with my GWP other than getting him used to the gun. He has never retrieved a dummy or ball and he is 2 now. I have had some very well respected HPR trainers try and fail to get him retrieving but this has not put me off using him. He will retrieve game all the time so I don't see the point in retrieving dummys. You say you want your dog for rough shooting then why would you want her to retrieve dummys?

If I were you I would remove all toys and not even think about retrieving for a few months. Spend time on sit, recall and steadyness training and only when that is 100% move onto some hunting.

I rough shoot with my dog and he finds more birds than I ever would on my own. You should remember that you wont have anything to retrieve if your dog cant hunt and point in the first place. Worst case scenario you pick up your own dead birds. Not the end of the world really is it?

 

Harry

[rickyspringer]

Dave she's gorgeous matey, don't give up on her yet, think you will unlock the will to retrieve, you need to tease tease tease... it could be something silly too a dish cloth or anything... think the key is forget the retrieve for now leave the pressure.. get her relaxed with all situations... she will come good... them dentisticks mine are mad for.

 

will get them dvd's to you asap...PS for the retrieve it will be best if the object is moving, sit on your floor and roll a ball around you, might unlock the will...

 

RS

[Daveo26]

Daveo,

 

I don't want to sound negative and like I am having a pop at you but you do seem to have given up all hope very early. Your dog is still a puppy and at that age I had not done any shooting training at all with my GWP other than getting him used to the gun. He has never retrieved a dummy or ball and he is 2 now. I have had some very well respected HPR trainers try and fail to get him retrieving but this has not put me off using him. He will retrieve game all the time so I don't see the point in retrieving dummys. You say you want your dog for rough shooting then why would you want her to retrieve dummys?

If I were you I would remove all toys and not even think about retrieving for a few months. Spend time on sit, recall and steadyness training and only when that is 100% move onto some hunting.

I rough shoot with my dog and he finds more birds than I ever would on my own. You should remember that you wont have anything to retrieve if your dog cant hunt and point in the first place. Worst case scenario you pick up your own dead birds. Not the end of the world really is it?

 

Harry

 

I think Your completly correct,

I have failed to tell the full story,

Before i got this bitch i was looking for a spaniel, I looked at quite a few litters most were well out of my price range then i heard of this litter of Brittany's.

I drove a fair way down to see them and was saddened by the state of the litter they were fleay, full of worms and filthy, to cut a long story short i took this bitch home because i felt sorry for her well all of them.

I was promised by the breeder they were from good working blood but she couldnt prove it.

A lot of what she told me has turned out to be rubbish so i decided to run this pup on for 12 months and see if i could make something of her.

This retreiving thing made me start thinking i was flogging a dead horse and that the pup would never amount to a working dog, very negative i know.

I have thought about it today since posting the film and im not giving up just yet.

Ill continue to try. Its difficult to know how to proceed as this is my first gundog and all the books seem to tell you do do different things.

c'est la vie

[Daveo26]

Dave she's gorgeous matey, don't give up on her yet, think you will unlock the will to retrieve, you need to tease tease tease... it could be something silly too a dish cloth or anything... think the key is forget the retrieve for now leave the pressure.. get her relaxed with all situations... she will come good... them dentisticks mine are mad for.

 

will get them dvd's to you asap...PS for the retrieve it will be best if the object is moving, sit on your floor and roll a ball around you, might unlock the will...

 

RS

 

Your right i need to chillax cheers Bud

[Dirty Harry]

Daveo,

 

You won't find many HPR breeds that don't have working blood in them. There is no real distinction between show and working dogs and I don't think the Brittney is any different.

They do need more work than most breeds but they are worth it in the end.