P~MX Posted December 22, 2010 Report Share Posted December 22, 2010 This was posted earlier today. Northern Ireland Environment Minister Edwin Poots has approved a second fourteen day statutory suspension in relation to the shooting of certain species of waterfowl. The suspension is coming into effect at 00:01 on Thursday 23 December and will last until 23:59 on Wednesday 5 January 2011. A review of the suspension will take place after the first seven days. During the statutory suspension in Northern Ireland it is against the law to shoot the waterfowl species listed below. Note that it is legal to shoot game birds but not reared duck. BASC has called on its members not to shoot woodcock or snipe even though they are not covered legally by the statutory suspension. Ducks: gadwall, goldeneye, mallard, pintail, pochard, scaup. shoveler, teal, tufted duck, wigeon. Geese: Canada, greylag, pink-footed. Waders: Curlew, golden plover. Why aren't the BASC in Northern Ireland insisting the Northern Ireland Environment Minister Edwin Poots that should have Woodcock and Snipe on the list for birds not be shot in this adverse weather instead of calling on its members not to shoot them ? There are plenty of shooters who are not in any association who think they aren't doing anything wrong by shooting woodcock and snipe because they are not on the list,Calling on it's members is not enough from the BASC who claim to be the biggest voice in shooting today !over the years there has been and still is plenty of talk on the ground of woodcock being shot for monetary profits - surely this can't be the reason that woodcock are being overlooked !? What other reason could there be for woodcock and snipe not being on the list ? In the South of Ireland they even have Wood Pigeons on their list which is highly commendable as NO birds should hunted Or shot in the current conditions. It was a big enough disgrace that the BASC were made aware by members that the woodcock and snipe were not listed on the first 2 week ban without allowing it to happen to the second extended ban -- What are the BASC & the CA & SACS doing to have these birds protected with the other birds on the list ? maybe it's because woodcock are such a fantastic sporting bird to hunt and shoot that there are too many greedy shooters out there shooting freely for these associations do anything about it ! I personally am ashamed of the association I am a member of that they have not said or done nothing to protect any birds or this severe weather, I will certainly be on the phone with them tomorrow letting them know my thoughts on this. f3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW80 Posted December 22, 2010 Report Share Posted December 22, 2010 Most the guys i know that are shooting at present are leaving the woodcock alone, apart from paid days on the estates i don't know too many doing any shooting at all! At the present most know not to shoot woodcock or snipe. I personally disagree with any species being put on a list as it can (will) end on the ban listed!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted December 22, 2010 Report Share Posted December 22, 2010 can`t comment on basc but countryside alliance has sent me a few texts regarding the waterfowl ban. they also asked for a voluntary ban on shooting snipe and woodcock.personally i would never consider shooting any birds during this harsh weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 (edited) A quick call to the BASC NI office would have answered your question, but the facts are these. Woodcock and snipe are classed in law as GAME and so not covered under any severe weather restriction on WILDFOWL. As you may (or may not know) the Assembly have voted to protect these birds in the context of severe weather but this will not become law until March 2011 at the earliest. In the meantime we are taking what we see as the best practical step and asking members and others to show restraint. What else do you expect BASC and responsible shooters to do? So do as you say and call Tommy David Edited December 23, 2010 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 firstly David I don't need you to tell me to go ahead and phone Tommy especially as I have already ready stated I intend to do it ! "Woodcock and snipe are classed in law as GAME and so not covered under any severe weather restriction on WILDFOWL" Any shooting man worth his salt knows that Woodcock and Snipe are game birds Or they shouldn't be shooting them if they don't know it ! "As you may (or may not know) the Assembly have voted to protect these birds in the context of severe weather but this will not become law until March 2011 at the earliest" Yes is the answer to your condescending question ! I made a point of asking my local MP what the Assembly's position was on the fact that woodcock are classed as Game birds but yet they have been receiving no protection during the extreme weather ! Why has it taken so long for the BASC to act in this matter ? it's not as if it's just came to light ! We suffered extreme cold weather last winter so how come the BASC didn't have this problem covered before this winter started and sit back and wait until March 2011 when the Woodcock and game season will be over and woodcock will have been continued to be shot legally and any other bird the that's worth shooting will be protected already with the exceptions of snipe, Why when this has happened as recently as last winter weren't the "voice of shooting" on top of this and have it covered before the problem arose Again ? People are quite happy to see Golden Plovers protected but how many true shooting men shoot them ? True shooting Sportsmen don't need a voluntary or legal shooting ban as they know to respect the very birds that have provided them with a life time of shooting but that will not be the case if ALL these associations keep missing the point year after year when greed takes over ! "What else do you expect BASC and responsible shooters to do?" Responsible shooters as I have said do not need any voluntary or enforced bans as they know and respect the position of the game birds that provide them their sport, it's the irresponsible greedy unsportsmanlike shooters who don't respect their quarry and will shoot in any conditions for sport and/or money,there are some who know no better and some who just don't care as they are shooting within the law ! The long and short of this matter is that ALL these associations that we pay into year after year should have had this matter in hand a long time ago without waiting to see if it happens before they take action,to say that "the Assembly have voted to protect these birds in the context of severe weather but this will not become law until March 2011 at the earliest" is an insult to the woodcock that most shooters call "the best game bird of all" ! why weren't the Assembly encouraged when they covered this subject to enforce an immediate ban instead of waiting until the shooting season is over and even then this is not guaranteed ? It's immediate action that's needed not excuses ! f3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 You know as well as I do that legislation takes time to go through its process, so please stop blaming BASC et al for that! However, I am a tad surprised that you seem so keen to see even greater legislative pressure and legislative regulation on shooting. Do you really need even more legislation to tell you when not so shoot game, wildfowl etc? No I am sure you don’t. Most of us I suspect would want to see us responsible shooters taking the responsibility to do what they personally think is right in the circumstances- just like you posted on the 17 December on another thread on this forum. Anyway Tommy is looking forward to your call. I will let you and Tommy chat about this and I will gracefully back out of this exchange. All readers know the background to why currently woodcock and snipe are not covered under the 'wildfowl. You will see updates on the BASC web site over the coming weeks while this weather persists. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 (edited) I am not blaming the BASC for the reason it takes a time period for the legislation to be changed ! As I've said it's the responsibility of ALL the associations that our Sport is protected as best possible ! I have rang my association and spoke about the current situation, I have heard some things that have been proposed by a certain organization that I do not agree with, and I will therefore not be making any phone calls to any association other than my own - SACS I know for a fact that when another concerned sportsman spoke to a certain association they also got no satisfaction as a result of his call. This as usual is heading for the same old ******* argument that "my association is better than yours" and that's not what this is about, There are 2 more points here that need to be address, the first is that people need to made aware that there is a cold weather shooting in affect, Last winter this was on the BBC news -- Noting has been said this year on tv or in the local press -- Why not ? the second is that some people are confused as to weather woodcock and snipe are either game birds or wading birds. Below is from SACS website. STOP PRESS In view of the current and forecast weather, the suspension of wildfowling will continue for the full 14 day period in both Scotland and Northern Ireland. Suspension of wildfowl shooting. As expected due to the appalling weather conditions, wildfowling will be suspended as follows: Scotland - from midnight on Thursday 9th December - all wildfowl, woodcock and snipe. Northern Ireland - from midnight on Wednesday 8th December - all wildfowl. Woodcock and snipe are not included in the suspension, but see below. England & Wales - still under review. A suspension would take effect from midnight on Monday 13th December if implemented. Notes In each case, the suspension will be reviewed after seven days, and can be lifted at that point. However, the long range weather forecasts suggest that there will be a short thaw period around 10th to 12th December, followed by another period of extremely cold weather, and it may well be that a further suspension will be needed. In Scotland, and England & Wales, the suspension includes woodcock and snipe as well as all wildfowl, including reared mallard. In Northern Ireland, woodcock and snipe are currently excluded from the suspension due to the different wording of the legislation there. We also recommend that members exercise restraint on woodcock and snipe in Northern Ireland , and everywhere on all other species such as woodpigeon and game birds if they show the slightest sign of abnormal behaviour or if their body condition is not good. f3 Edited December 23, 2010 by f3x3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 I have to say I am not entirely sure what the issue here is f3x3, I have been very impressed with BASC's conduct during the cold weather and the steps to resolve confusion, I find their website very useful for keeping me informed with the situation in the various parts of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Although I was going to back out of this I will ask a question please- if you are ,as you say, just a SACS man, why title this thread 'BASC N.Ireland' why not title it 'SACS NI'? And why in your original post go on about why have BASC not done this and why have BASC not done that seems strange to me that you choose not to support BASC but feel free to criticise? Anyway what ever lights your candle. Let’s move on. As for my association is better then yours - let me say that as far as I am concerned I fully accept a persons free choice to join the organisation(s) they feel bet fit them, BASC offers a larger range of services and benefits than others but then again we cost more, and some of the cheaper organisations may offer benefits that BASC don’t, and so some may well choose a cheaper option. As for letting people know about it,: It’s in the Belfast Telegraph here: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/bad-weather-halts-duck-shooting-15037774.html It’s in Farming today here: http://www.farminguk.com/PopularNews/Bad-weather-suspends-waterfowl-shooting-in-NI_19506.html Its on e-gov monitor here: http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/40025 And if I were a betting man I would bet the BBC will pick it up very soon too - we have been alerting them to it for a few days. Best wishes David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 I have to say I am not entirely sure what the issue here is f3x3, I have been very impressed with BASC's conduct during the cold weather and the steps to resolve confusion, I find their website very useful for keeping me informed with the situation in the various parts of the UK. The issue here is that Woodcock and Snipe are not on the protected shooting ban list here in Northern Ireland ! the BASC call themselves the "voice of shooting" so my points were directed at them as they claim to be the main association and not "other cheaper association" As I have said it's not only the responsibility of one association But all associations that their members are fully aware of whats currently going on but it's also up to these associations to ensure the wider shooting public are aware of whats happening when issues arise, many shooters including myself don't read the Belfast Tele or the Farming news,many shooters also don't have Internet access so the only main medium is TV -- as I pointed out last winter the shooting ban was on the BBC news at 6 pm -- why not this year ? and why not especially now as a second period of banned shooting has been brought in. As the BASC claim to be the largest voice in shooting I think they should be doing more and it's use saying "I would bet the BBC will pick it up very soon too - we have been alerting them to it for a few days" this has been going for weeks now so I'd say it's a bit late to say that ! The other associations including my own in my opinion should also be doing more what what's being done at the minute,For the sake of the birds this should have been taken care of when the cold weather shooting ban was put in place last winter, I would sincerely hope that the governments and shooting associations will get their acts together so this injustice never happens again. As for the woodcock that have just arrived in this past week there has already been reports that these new birds a lot more unhealthy than the birds that came in under the November moon,what sporting chance have they got when woodcock are not on the protected list ! I have shot a game bird or wildfowl bird for 5 days before the first ban came into place,I wouldn't even shoot a pigeon for sport,I know it's not illegal but I think it's immoral, there is no one loves hunting and shooting woodcock more than I do when times and conditions are right but they have not been right or will be right for the foreseeable future of this 2010/2011 shooting season. Lets us all try and look after our beloved sport better and help educate those who know no better. f3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian28 Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Think sole intention of OP was to knock BASC even though he is not a member of it. personally dont like his dictatorial rubbish that he writes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 that's fine you don't like what I wrote you're entitled to your opinion! this is a Northern Ireland issue ? are you a member of the BASC ? I was a BASC member for many years and when a member of our gun clubs was let down and I along with many others left it many years ago ! We All need to be a member of one shooting association or another to help unite the voice of the shooting man, there are too many out there would be only too happy to see our Sport in trouble for what ever reason we need to stand united for the sake of shooting, I think that protecting some game birds in one part of the country and not the others does not look well for our sport and it doesn't help the birds either, the confusion could lead to shooters loosing their gun licences as they are not aware of the laws that are in place for one shooter and not another.More needs to be done in the puplic eye. f3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 To be fair you have no right to really be asking the BASC anything as you don't support them trot off back to the Kilt wearing organisation and get them on the job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 My comment about the BBC picking it up was purely tongue in cheek, as Tommy was filmed by BBC Newsline and his interview broadcast at 6pm a couple of weeks ago! Pitty you missed it - it was a great interview. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 I'll not be "trotting off anywhere" Pal as long as the BASC or any shooting organisation call themselves the "voice of shooting" I and anyone else who are concerned are entitled to ask questions ! and if you want to be so smart and condescending and considering this is an Northern Ireland issue you can wind your neck in if that's your attitude ! attitudes like yours don't do shooting any favours. f3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 ok so you expect an organisation you don't belong to, to do as you request? Its fine if you're a paying member to expect them to work on your behalf but not otherwise. You belong to SACS and choose to support them so why not ask them? If you believe BASC do a better job at representing your interests why not join up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Yes David it is a pity I missed but I have to say anyone I know that shoots never saw it either, I watch the local news in my house at 6 pm and 6.30pm every night so I don't understand how I missed it so if missed it how many other missed it too ? but I must say that if the BASC did have it on local TV there isn't much more they or anyone else can do what date was that on and I'll look up the UTV web site to see it ? I don't understand why you didn't mention this before ! Surely you realise my point for raising this topic is for the sake of the birds and for no other reason unlike that pointed out by the anti kilt wearer ! f3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Not anti kilt wearers at all just think its taking the **** moaning about an organisation you don't support and expecting them to work for you as the one you support is inadequate for your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 9th December David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 ok so you expect an organisation you don't belong to, to do as you request? Its fine if you're a paying member to expect them to work on your behalf but not otherwise. You belong to SACS and choose to support them so why not ask them? If you believe BASC do a better job at representing your interests why not join up? I have asked the BASC to do anything on my behalf ! I have asked Ian Clarke of SASC on their position on this issue and I have listed what SASC have on their web site (which is good but like others I don't think is enough) as there are many many shooters who aren't members of any association so unless like David has said the BASC were on TV a few weeks ago aren't going to know whats going on. Any good shooting man will know that a shooting ban is on the cards before it actually happens but when certain game/wading birds are protected in one area and not another there are shooters and birds who are at risk ! I don't believe the BASC do a better job than SASC that's why I'm a member of SASC. f3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 9th December David David I've just looked through the UTV news headlines for the 9th December and I do not see any mention of a shooting ban, If it's not there in the headlines and I've even looked in the 10.30pm program too how are people expected to know whats going on, I remember watching the UTV news that night and I never heard it mentioned but maybe I've just missed it, maybe there's a link you can paste here ? I know last year on was a news headline as many of my non shooting friends were able to ask me about it. f3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 (edited) F3x3 You are talking rubbish and you know it. You chose to join a shooting organisation fine you get your own organisation to alert the BBC and lobby for woodcook to be included in the ban before the law to that effect comes into play in a few months. If you were a member of BASC then you would have every right to moan at them , but I suspect to save money you chose the cheaper organisation and now you have to live with the results like it or not. What you are doing is the same as buying a product from the cheap shop over the road and then complaining to the top shop on the high street that you do not like the quality and it should change it for you. You do have a valid argument that woodcock and snipe should be classed with other wildfowl and waders , but the law is the law . BASC are not law makers , your NI govenment is the law maker ,lobby them yourself if you feel that strongly on the topic , but do not ride on the back of others who have put their hand in their pockets to pay a top organisation higher subs to protect our shooting . This post of yours is causing people who I pay a tiny % of their wages to do work for you for free. Edited December 23, 2010 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 ansers2 you are talking rubbish ! The BASC claim to be "The voice of shooting in UK" so they are entitled to answer questions, when the anti's question them they answer so why shouldn't I as a law abiding shooter ask them questions ? they might not be obliged to answer but I can still ask ! I'm not buying from the cheap shop as you so sarcastically put it rather I'm buying from the shop where I feel I get best value ! SASC make no claims to be "The voice of shooting in UK" but still they will answer questions from anyone member or non member ! What do you mean "I don't have a valid argument that woodcock and snipe should be classed with other wildfowl and waders" ? what other section do you think they should be classes as ? You obviously missed the point of this topic, and just for you I'll give it to you again, Woodcock & Snipe are in some parts of the UK classed as game birds and in other parts they are classed as waders in other parts, this is confusing to shooters and could lead to shooters breaking the law and getting themselves in trouble when they are only after a few hours sport, the other point is that is in Northern Ireland is the only part of UK and Ireland were woodcock and snipe are not protected by the shooting ban - Why not ? The purpose of this thread is to equally protect the very birds that give us our sport when they need it most ! f3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 (edited) F3x3 read my post agin and your will see I state i do agree that woodcock and snipe should be classed with wildfowl. Second Just because BASC is the " voice of shooting " does not give you the right to use my money to make your point. Lets face it you have spent your money on a looser and now you expect others to bail you out. Your argument is not with BASC its with your govenment. So pull your finger out and go and see your MP and let him deal with your problem. Or join BASC , if they will have you , or just go to bed. Perhaps you will have more luck if you bend the ear of the RSPB. Edited December 23, 2010 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 (edited) You ask why arnt you inline with the rest of the UK in classing woodcock as wildfowl\waders. Answer simple , you live in a country with s divolved govenment Part of the benifit or disadvantage of such a govenment is that you make your own laws in these matters. Not BASC , CA or SAC , but your own countrymen so its up to you to change the law if you feel so strong about it. That means lobbying your MP. Edited December 23, 2010 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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