on the rape tomorrow

[UKPoacher]

What pattern are you using when you put your decoys out. ???

 

Many years ago, as I'm an old ***, I had a long chat with Old Archie Coates.

 

He explained that as far as any pattern is concerned it should always face into the wind and MUST be an inverted V (apex into the wind) you only need a minimum of 3 decoys, or 5, or 7 etc making the V. You can watch birds feeding all day and try and copy there pattern and it will fail.

 

He said you must think like a bird, Why does it have 340 deg vision--because the Hawk attacks from behind, why does it have mono & stereo vision--so it can lock onto a single blade of grass or twig to land on.

 

Now the last bird either side of the V is Hawk bait--so the incomming bird will always overfly those points and land as close to the front bird as possible.

 

I know it may sound daft but believe me it works every time, my son & I always have the birds committed and into any pattern we lay out and have good bags.

 

Trust me try it.

 

Best Regards and Happy New Year.

 

 

Oh now i see , in your first post you said you used 3 decoys but you did not say with 1 or 2 magnets thats where i think we all got lost a bit

 

My mate just sticks out his magnet sometimes and shoots good bags ,but for me this time of year the more the better

 

Where I got lost is with birds overflying the rear decoys. In my experience the incoming birds usually land at the back or sides of the pattern and rarely overfly birds on the ground when coming in to land.

[Warthog]

Where I got lost is with birds overflying the rear decoys. In my experience the incoming birds usually land at the back or sides of the pattern and rarely overfly birds on the ground when coming in to land.

 

 

I was going to go on and fully explain if anyone was interested but lost interest when some people got into the festering spirt.

 

The principle is that you do not put out any pattern that resembles a natural feeding pattern except that the V faces into the wind and it is a V not a U. You can use as little as 3 decoys up ot 9 decoys. I use the old shell ones with the silsock on them. On the rota I use the false silsock and then change to dead birds asap.

 

The V is about 10 yds in size on the sides and 15 yds at the opening. When using 9 decoys I have 5-7 of them very close to the point of the V and the others set back still forming the v. The birds overfly the rear birds as I have already said they consider them Hawk bait and feel safe landing in the pattern.

The Rota is set to one side of the V near the front again showing the incoming birds that they are safe to land.

 

My son and I have over 4000 acres to shoot over of which 1000+ is rape, so we have to get the flight lines etc right. But the birds just drop in from way up, into the pattern.

You know what I am talking about when they just drop in like a Stukka bomber, you can stand up and they don't see you because they are fully committed and have changed their eyesight from independant 340 degs to fixed mono having identified a specific spot to land in.

 

We have sat there time and again and let birds land, thereby pulling in following birds so that we can both stand up and take a right & left.

Any birds shot are put out replacing the decoys at first, apex decoy head up,(I use wooden Kebab sticks from tescos to do this), as the bag increases so the V extends and becomes a double V one inside the other always leaving the central area of the V clear and open for birds to land in. I will also have some of the dead bids with heads up. It does get to the point where you don't put out ever bird shot as the V becomes to long. Best day using above was 297. Roost shooting 156.

 

The only reason I bothered to post this was to help out others who are not having any luck in improving their skills at shooting more birds over the pattern.

 

When I first tried this pattern 25+ years ago I had to trust in what he had told me and let the birds come into the pattern and not just try and hit anything when it came close. As my confidence increased in trusting the pattern so my kill rate went up with multi double kills. Nothing has changed over all those years except the Rota & Silsocks, which is an excellent piece of kit.

 

I have always tried to improve my Personal Best in any of my hobbies (I also enjoy Carp Fishing and have had many 50+lb fish up to 57lb) but "If it ain't broke why try and fix it", this works.

 

Anyway hope it is of some help to someone.

 

Best Regards and a Happy New Year to all.

[thinxs]

I was going to go on and fully explain if anyone was interested but lost interest when some people got into the festering spirt.

 

The principle is that you do not put out any pattern that resembles a natural feeding pattern except that the V faces into the wind and it is a V not a U. You can use as little as 3 decoys up ot 9 decoys. I use the old shell ones with the silsock on them. On the rota I use the false silsock and then change to dead birds asap.

 

The V is about 10 yds in size on the sides and 15 yds at the opening. When using 9 decoys I have 5-7 of them very close to the point of the V and the others set back still forming the v. The birds overfly the rear birds as I have already said they consider them Hawk bait and feel safe landing in the pattern.

The Rota is set to one side of the V near the front again showing the incoming birds that they are safe to land.

 

My son and I have over 4000 acres to shoot over of which 1000+ is rape, so we have to get the flight lines etc right. But the birds just drop in from way up, into the pattern.

You know what I am talking about when they just drop in like a Stukka bomber, you can stand up and they don't see you because they are fully committed and have changed their eyesight from independant 340 degs to fixed mono having identified a specific spot to land in.

 

We have sat there time and again and let birds land, thereby pulling in following birds so that we can both stand up and take a right & left.

Any birds shot are put out replacing the decoys at first, apex decoy head up,(I use wooden Kebab sticks from tescos to do this), as the bag increases so the V extends and becomes a double V one inside the other always leaving the central area of the V clear and open for birds to land in. I will also have some of the dead bids with heads up. It does get to the point where you don't put out ever bird shot as the V becomes to long. Best day using above was 297. Roost shooting 156.

 

The only reason I bothered to post this was to help out others who are not having any luck in improving their skills at shooting more birds over the pattern.

 

When I first tried this pattern 25+ years ago I had to trust in what he had told me and let the birds come into the pattern and not just try and hit anything when it came close. As my confidence increased in trusting the pattern so my kill rate went up with multi double kills. Nothing has changed over all those years except the Rota & Silsocks, which is an excellent piece of kit.

 

I have always tried to improve my Personal Best in any of my hobbies (I also enjoy Carp Fishing and have had many 50+lb fish up to 57lb) but "If it ain't broke why try and fix it", this works.

 

Anyway hope it is of some help to someone.

 

Best Regards and a Happy New Year to all.

 

Thank you for the update.

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

I was going to go on and fully explain if anyone was interested but lost interest when some people got into the festering spirt.

 

The principle is that you do not put out any pattern that resembles a natural feeding pattern except that the V faces into the wind and it is a V not a U. You can use as little as 3 decoys up ot 9 decoys. I use the old shell ones with the silsock on them. On the rota I use the false silsock and then change to dead birds asap.

 

The V is about 10 yds in size on the sides and 15 yds at the opening. When using 9 decoys I have 5-7 of them very close to the point of the V and the others set back still forming the v. The birds overfly the rear birds as I have already said they consider them Hawk bait and feel safe landing in the pattern.

The Rota is set to one side of the V near the front again showing the incoming birds that they are safe to land.

 

My son and I have over 4000 acres to shoot over of which 1000+ is rape, so we have to get the flight lines etc right. But the birds just drop in from way up, into the pattern.

You know what I am talking about when they just drop in like a Stukka bomber, you can stand up and they don't see you because they are fully committed and have changed their eyesight from independant 340 degs to fixed mono having identified a specific spot to land in.

 

We have sat there time and again and let birds land, thereby pulling in following birds so that we can both stand up and take a right & left.

Any birds shot are put out replacing the decoys at first, apex decoy head up,(I use wooden Kebab sticks from tescos to do this), as the bag increases so the V extends and becomes a double V one inside the other always leaving the central area of the V clear and open for birds to land in. I will also have some of the dead bids with heads up. It does get to the point where you don't put out ever bird shot as the V becomes to long. Best day using above was 297. Roost shooting 156.

 

The only reason I bothered to post this was to help out others who are not having any luck in improving their skills at shooting more birds over the pattern.

 

When I first tried this pattern 25+ years ago I had to trust in what he had told me and let the birds come into the pattern and not just try and hit anything when it came close. As my confidence increased in trusting the pattern so my kill rate went up with multi double kills. Nothing has changed over all those years except the Rota & Silsocks, which is an excellent piece of kit.

 

I have always tried to improve my Personal Best in any of my hobbies (I also enjoy Carp Fishing and have had many 50+lb fish up to 57lb) but "If it ain't broke why try and fix it", this works.

 

Anyway hope it is of some help to someone.

 

Best Regards and a Happy New Year to all.

 

Where did you catch your carp and also was you lucky enough to meet archie in the flesh .

 

Cheers OTH

[firebrand]

I was going to go on and fully explain if anyone was interested but lost interest when some people got into the festering spirt.

 

The principle is that you do not put out any pattern that resembles a natural feeding pattern except that the V faces into the wind and it is a V not a U. You can use as little as 3 decoys up ot 9 decoys. I use the old shell ones with the silsock on them. On the rota I use the false silsock and then change to dead birds asap.

 

The V is about 10 yds in size on the sides and 15 yds at the opening. When using 9 decoys I have 5-7 of them very close to the point of the V and the others set back still forming the v. The birds overfly the rear birds as I have already said they consider them Hawk bait and feel safe landing in the pattern.

The Rota is set to one side of the V near the front again showing the incoming birds that they are safe to land.

 

My son and I have over 4000 acres to shoot over of which 1000+ is rape, so we have to get the flight lines etc right. But the birds just drop in from way up, into the pattern.

You know what I am talking about when they just drop in like a Stukka bomber, you can stand up and they don't see you because they are fully committed and have changed their eyesight from independant 340 degs to fixed mono having identified a specific spot to land in.

 

We have sat there time and again and let birds land, thereby pulling in following birds so that we can both stand up and take a right & left.

Any birds shot are put out replacing the decoys at first, apex decoy head up,(I use wooden Kebab sticks from tescos to do this), as the bag increases so the V extends and becomes a double V one inside the other always leaving the central area of the V clear and open for birds to land in. I will also have some of the dead bids with heads up. It does get to the point where you don't put out ever bird shot as the V becomes to long. Best day using above was 297. Roost shooting 156.

 

The only reason I bothered to post this was to help out others who are not having any luck in improving their skills at shooting more birds over the pattern.

 

When I first tried this pattern 25+ years ago I had to trust in what he had told me and let the birds come into the pattern and not just try and hit anything when it came close. As my confidence increased in trusting the pattern so my kill rate went up with multi double kills. Nothing has changed over all those years except the Rota & Silsocks, which is an excellent piece of kit.

 

I have always tried to improve my Personal Best in any of my hobbies (I also enjoy Carp Fishing and have had many 50+lb fish up to 57lb) but "If it ain't broke why try and fix it", this works.

 

Anyway hope it is of some help to someone.

 

Best Regards and a Happy New Year to all.

 

Warthog

I certainly appreciate any tips you care to pass on as I am willing to learn from other peoples experiences and want to improve my bags.

I will certainly try this decoy pattern next time I'm out so thanks for that.

 

(For info I too like a bit of carp fishing but my best is only 23lb 4ozs)

Thanks

[kevinbird]

that is a great explanation, it will be very usefull to the likes of myself (novice) i cant wait to try it out. thanks warthog

[Mightymariner]

If you read Archie Coats' book, Pigeon Shooting, he also heavily favours what he calls 'compound interest', ie: putting out as many decoys as you have, and adding shot birds to the pattern. The idea being that the birds can't resist pitching in to feed alongside a large number of their pals, even though they may not be on a field they had been feeding on themselves.

[Warthog]

Where did you catch your carp and also was you lucky enough to meet archie in the flesh .

 

Cheers OTH

 

Ref the 57lber, that was from Graviers my mate had the Orange One out at just over 80lb, going back again in October.

 

Ref Archie, yes a few times at shows, many years ago.

 

Best Regards.

[UKPoacher]

I was going to go on and fully explain if anyone was interested but lost interest when some people got into the festering spirt.

 

The principle is that you do not put out any pattern that resembles a natural feeding pattern except that the V faces into the wind and it is a V not a U. You can use as little as 3 decoys up ot 9 decoys. I use the old shell ones with the silsock on them. On the rota I use the false silsock and then change to dead birds asap.

 

The V is about 10 yds in size on the sides and 15 yds at the opening. When using 9 decoys I have 5-7 of them very close to the point of the V and the others set back still forming the v. The birds overfly the rear birds as I have already said they consider them Hawk bait and feel safe landing in the pattern.

The Rota is set to one side of the V near the front again showing the incoming birds that they are safe to land.

 

My son and I have over 4000 acres to shoot over of which 1000+ is rape, so we have to get the flight lines etc right. But the birds just drop in from way up, into the pattern.

You know what I am talking about when they just drop in like a Stukka bomber, you can stand up and they don't see you because they are fully committed and have changed their eyesight from independant 340 degs to fixed mono having identified a specific spot to land in.

 

We have sat there time and again and let birds land, thereby pulling in following birds so that we can both stand up and take a right & left.

Any birds shot are put out replacing the decoys at first, apex decoy head up,(I use wooden Kebab sticks from tescos to do this), as the bag increases so the V extends and becomes a double V one inside the other always leaving the central area of the V clear and open for birds to land in. I will also have some of the dead bids with heads up. It does get to the point where you don't put out ever bird shot as the V becomes to long. Best day using above was 297. Roost shooting 156.

 

The only reason I bothered to post this was to help out others who are not having any luck in improving their skills at shooting more birds over the pattern.

 

When I first tried this pattern 25+ years ago I had to trust in what he had told me and let the birds come into the pattern and not just try and hit anything when it came close. As my confidence increased in trusting the pattern so my kill rate went up with multi double kills. Nothing has changed over all those years except the Rota & Silsocks, which is an excellent piece of kit.

 

I have always tried to improve my Personal Best in any of my hobbies (I also enjoy Carp Fishing and have had many 50+lb fish up to 57lb) but "If it ain't broke why try and fix it", this works.

 

Anyway hope it is of some help to someone.

 

Best Regards and a Happy New Year to all.

 

Right! Now I get it. You are basically forming a triangular clump of birds at the head of the pattern and leaving a few trailing deeks on the outer edges, forming a space in the middle to funnel incoming birds into the gap? So the incoming birds don't actually overfly the rear deeks, they fly between them and land at the rear of the central crowd of deeks?

 

That now makes sense and is similar to what I do, albeit with between 12 and 18 shells and a couple of angels at the rear of the front crowd of deeks.

 

As for the Stuka diving / mono vision description; That is something that has always intrigued me. There are times when incoming pigeons spot you breathing at five miles distant and peel off while other times they set their wings and hurtle into the pattern even though you are out mending the hide or directing the dog to a retrieve. It is only when they set their wings, like a Stuka now that you mention it.

[kyska]

Well its still all academic to me, out again sunday and monday all day, monday saw one of the biggest flocks I've seen on the land for...well.....forever.

 

We put out statics, statics and bouncers, statics and dippers, magnet and guess how many shots off from two of us...0....they saw us come onto the rape field and ****** off, never to be seen again, I'm really losing faith in winter shooting, 8 hours out yesterday, moved every 2 hours to remote rape fields that they appeared to be flying over, and zip, nothing, either vanished or wouldn't come in, not even close enough for the stupidly high shot.

Edited January 4, 2011 by kyska

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

Now I know that info is helpful but is there any new info being gained here.

 

Woodies are more numerous than ever before but must have had alot less pressure on them EG it equals it must have been easier to shoot good numbers in Mr Coates days.

 

He had access to huge tracts of Hampshire finest game estates which other dreamed of.

 

Winter rape did not come to Uk till the late seventies farming practices have changed .

 

Some of the advice is helpful and true but the harsh fact is no matter your skill level of decoying there will be times they are undecoyable FACT.

 

V shape whirly flappers peckers 100 deeks etc.

 

I think what is more relavant is the mood the woodies are in if they fancy feeding they will feed but if they dont no matter what methods you try the vast majority of woodies will either stay away or fly pass.

 

Regards OTH

[Catamong]

Well its still all academic to me, out again sunday and monday all day, monday saw one of the biggest flocks I've seen on the land for...well.....forever.

 

We put out statics, statics and bouncers, statics and dippers, magnet and guess how many shots off from two of us...0....they saw us come onto the rape field and ****** off, never to be seen again, I'm really losing faith in winter shooting, 8 hours out yesterday, moved every 2 hours to remote rape fields that they appeared to be flying over, and zip, nothing, either vanished or wouldn't come in, not even close enough for the stupidly high shot.

 

Well, you're probably shooting in the wrong place, you need to be in that part of the field where the birds are feeding, not where you want them to feed.

 

It's absolutely essential that you recce the field the day before to locate the feeding area, and plan your hide position accordingly.

 

If you do that and use a magnet with long arms and a fast spin speed, the birds WILL commit to your pattern.

 

Cat.

[kyska]

Thanks, I'm sure I'm shooting in the right place, I recced the day before, to be honest on one field it was hard to tell as it was grey with pigeon.

 

I'll put a limb out...I'm a hermit, but if anyone nearby with real, proper experience fancies a day to show me, and I'll buy tea and beer PM me.

 

Well, you're probably shooting in the wrong place, you need to be in that part of the field where the birds are feeding, not where you want them to feed.

 

It's absolutely essential that you recce the field the day before to locate the feeding area, and plan your hide position accordingly.

 

If you do that and use a magnet with long arms and a fast spin speed, the birds WILL commit to your pattern.

 

Cat.

[UKPoacher]

Well, you're probably shooting in the wrong place, you need to be in that part of the field where the birds are feeding, not where you want them to feed.

 

It's absolutely essential that you recce the field the day before to locate the feeding area, and plan your hide position accordingly.

 

If you do that and use a magnet with long arms and a fast spin speed, the birds WILL commit to your pattern.

 

Cat.

 

As I keep saying; it doesn't matter what you do and where you are. If you put the birds up and they go elsewhere you won't see them again unless someone or something else disturbs them. When OSR was first introduced it was like the wonder crop as there were so few fields of it and pigeons concentratd on those fields. Now half the country is covered in the stuff and pigeons will simply move to an undisturbed field once you walk them off.

 

Believe me, I've sat for hours in a good hide next to a flightline, roatary going at all speeds, with deeks set up right on the spot where the 600 or so have just flown from and all I've seen is a few passing singletons. The birds have settled and are feeding elsewhere.

 

Once the game season is over more pigeon shooters will get out and keep the flocks moving.

[shootnfish]

i completly agree with uk poacher,i went out sunday on some rape because a farmer had rang and said there was a lot of pigeons on it and there was easily a 1000plus walked them off set up didnt fire a shot and yes i had recced put banger ropes on other fields and set up where they were feeding. the simple answer is there is there is to much rape in this area even if there was 4 or 5 people out and you spent £100 on banger ropes each time it wouldent work. i packed up and went to another farm where there is less rape got there there were less birds around 300 or so and i ended up with 39 in 3 hours no recee or banger ropes just less rape in the area. oh and i didnt even set up exactly where they were feeding because of a road and houses.

[Mightymariner]

I am going out tomorrow, but decoying on some rape next to a maize cover crop that I know hundreds of birds have been feeding in for weeks. There are other rape fields I have seen birds, even one with hundreds on but I know what will happen - the birds will simply move off to easier pickings. At least I know the birds will be flighting past me tomorrow to the maize, even if they don't fancy the rape. I reckon I have seen more bigger flocks this year than in a long time, maybe there are more birds about.

[thinxs]

Tried the 'V' shape as discribed today and had the best results for quite some time. Started it off with shell decoys then replaced with victims on cradles then cocktail sticks. The birds did slow up as the pattern grew.

 

Thanks for the tip. Will try next time to see if it was just a fluke.