Kes Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 If I wanted a brain surgeon I wouldn't get the Yellow Pages out and plumb for the cheapest. I have found that in life you invariably get what you pay for. The end. Mungler, with respect, if all you expect is to pay the highest price for quality you will never get anything other than expensive quality, quality and expensiveness are not always synonymous. Quality is actually defined in terms of what the customer is 'willing to pay'. Get that right or you go out of business. Regards, Kes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Mungler, with respect, if all you expect is to pay the highest price for quality you will never get anything other than expensive quality, quality and expensiveness are not always synonymous. Quality is actually defined in terms of what the customer is 'willing to pay'. Get that right or you go out of business. Regards, Kes I disagree completely with you, If you provide an excellent service and one that is better than all your competitors than you can charge a higher price. People with any sense will always take service over price. You can buy shooting insurance on the net for £20, but don't expect them to help you out when your renewal comes up or the police are being arkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRTaylor Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 David, as you well know, if you claim through the BASC policy and you are insured twice, the insurers will search for other insurances and battle it out between themselves to see who pays. In the end, it’s not about paying out, it’s about who pays what. I’ll speak to the membership department about the script. What proportion of income is spent on shooting? Membership income is divided between the political, media and campaigns. Yes, these teams also work on other areas such and Hunting and rural issues, but that is generally why many people join the Alliance, because they are affected by more than just shooting. Any money donated to the shooting campaign (badge sales etc...) then 100% gets spent on the shooting campaign. I don’t quite follow your logic here. If you followed your logic even further, what percentage of wildfowlers money is spent on the deerstalking department at BASC, or on the trade section? Taken to the logical conclusion, we would have an organisation for wildfowling, one for pigeon shooting, one for stalking, one for driven shooting..... This thinking is self destructive and not doing anyone any favours. You claim to be on the front line when it comes to politics, but how much does it cost the BASC member every time one of your team visits Westminster? For anyone at the Alliance, it’s a £2.30 round trip on the bus, which is why members of our political team spend a large proportion of their time where the action is. On the subject of advice on firearms, we are also able to dispense that too. I have fielded many questions so far in my time at the Alliance. If we don’t have the answer in house, we are able to get the advice from an advisor, which keeps overall costs to a minimum. I think this topic should get back to original post.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonsterandmerlin. Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Can either give a balanced view being employed by said bodies I hope they can but reading though there posts I think its all become a little blurred . Cheers OTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) Can either give a balanced view being employed by said bodies I hope they can but reading though there posts I think its all become a little blurred . Cheers OTH That actually is the most sensible thing I have read all day. That being said I am a dyed in the wool BASC fan for all sorts of reasons including firearms advice received by me at the drop of a hat and which I couldn't get anywhere else. Well, I could have got it from a specialist Barrister but it would have cost me the think end of a grand. Oh yes, and if anyone is interested it involved yours truly being relieved of his certificates for a short while... you might understand why I don't begrudge BASC an annual sub equivalent to half a tank of diesel. I think the whole insurance thing is a massive boring red herring and I am surprised it appears to be of primary interest to so many people. Edited February 15, 2011 by Mungler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ostrea Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 BASC all the way for me insurance is only part of why i pay my membership had to phone them a couple of times for advice on shooting matters and fair play they have been excellent with their advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenshooter Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 BASC all the way for me insurance is only part of why i pay my membership had to phone them a couple of times for advice on shooting matters and fair play they have been excellent with their advice. I was a member of both the CA and BASC. I was enormously impressed by the whole team at BASC when I had a potentially serious issue with my firearms licensing, through no fault/stupidity of my own I should add. And when you are getting a hard time, it's a very lonely place to be. BASC stepped in, the Regional Director seemed to be well respected by firearms licensing. Because the negative attitude and perceived aggression that I was experiencing changed almost immediately. The BASC HQ team were also involved and another regional director, who was able to offer advice was also helping. The whole BASC team could not have been 1) more helpful 2) better informed and knowledgeable 3) well 'connected' 4) approachable. This contrasted completely to the chap on the CA stand at the CLA game fair a few years ago who nearly had a fit when I mentioned in conversation that my main shooting was fox shooting. It's a joke that they have any interest in shooting other than getting potential BASC members to subsidise their fox hunting activities, IMHO and experience. CA have one person, in post a few months to support shooting, and this is no criticism of him personally. And BASC have how many? NGO have how many? Believe me, when you need advice and you're up against it, you want the best, and the best need a strong team. And in my opinion AND experience, this is the BASC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) And when you are getting a hard time, it's a very lonely place to be. Absolutely spot on. Whilst you may know "it's going to be alright" you can't beat hearing that from the head of firearms at BASC. It's much better than your mummy saying it, for example As above, I am sitting here rubbing my eyes at the pages generated about "insurance". I can get shooting insurance anywhere for what a tenner, or some Royal Platinum edged policy that would cover me abroad for what twenty quid. Big flipping deal. I didn't join BASC for insurance, it's all the other stuff that comes with it that's of importance and where the real value is. Edited February 15, 2011 by Mungler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonsterandmerlin. Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I also think BASC is the best suited to our needs I am not a members as my NFU trade policy covers my shooting and pest control . There knowledge is 2nd to none on shooting the legal side. But I also donate to BASC as I can see its vision for our sport is good and strong. I not sure if DAVID BASC helps enrol new members on PW as his replies can be ebrasive for some. Does not bother me as some view my opinions as ebrasive but the big diffrents is I am not the public face of BASC on PW forum. Cheers OTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenshooter Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) I not sure if DAVID BASC helps enrol new members on PW as his replies can be ebrasive for some. Does not bother me as some view my opinions as ebrasive but the big diffrents is I am not the public face of BASC on PW forum. Cheers OTH Considering the grief that he has to put up with, I think that David BASC, (whom I have not met and don't know), has been very mild mannered. And as a BASC member, who is frankly fed up with all the sniping at BASC, often from ill informed or people with an axe to grind or an old grudge, I think he is quite right to respond assertively like he had done in this thread. All IMHO of course. Edited February 15, 2011 by Glenshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonsterandmerlin. Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 There is a minority of shooters who seem to hate BASC why is that is it because of image of BASC or just poor education of the critics of BASC. This is question as I dont know why cheers OTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) Most have an axe to grind against BASC somewhere in their background / past. Normally the ones that regularly pop up on here (and who normally have an NI or Scottish location) are ex BASC reps having had a "fall out" somewhere along the line and are heavily involved in "other" shooting organisations. It's all fairly obvious - there was a corker recently... I'll see if I can get a link up. EDIT: Here we go, have a giggle at >>this<< There are more, let me see if I can dig them out. Normally, the more immediately angry and the more unreasonable, then the more likely of previous history and some axe grinding. I am sure that DavidBASC has kept a list somewhere Edited February 15, 2011 by Mungler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Considering the grief that he has to put up with, I think that David BASC, (whom I have not met and don't know), has been very mild mannered. And as a BASC member, who is frankly fed up with all the sniping at BASC, often from ill informed or people with an axe to grind or an old grudge, I think he is quite right to respond assertively like he had done in this thread. All IMHO of course. Well said Glenshooter Its good that david and the basc have teeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 David, thank you for having a word about the script, but could I please have a copy? Yes, if more than one underwriter is involved they will debate over quantum, the difference is with BASC we take over the claim, manage the claim, and do everything else, the member makes one call fills in one form and we do everything else, regardless of who else may underwrite part of the loss also. It looks to me that the CA policy immediately refuses any cover until all other avenues have been exhausted by the member. Correct me if I am wrong. I know which option I would prefer. With al respect, you may well be very good at firearms legislation, but I am willing to bet the BASC firearms team resource is greater than the CA's simply because that is our area of expertise. We have issued in the past though the mag a full breakdown on the income spent by team / discipline Please let me know how many of the 50 government department statutory consultations that could impact on shooting the CA responded to last year. There were 50. It matters not whether it costs £2.50 or £100 to get to Westminster if you are not delivering the results for shooting! Please answer my point as to why the CA are so blatantly attacking BASC in their adverts, and on your stands through your posters and displays at shows and now through your telesales campaign. Kes, Yes I agree, greater segmentation of the membership is a good idea, and that is why BASC is split into different discipline based teams, offering specific services to members, and this differential delivery of service will becomes more apparent as time moves on. As to insurance, some disciplines are low risk / frequency of claim but have a high quantum of claim, others are high rick / frequency but low quantum of claim – so overall it balances itself out. Also, there are so few claims on the policy – roughly 1 per 2000 members, the frequency of claim is not high enough to ‘load’ one sector of the membership more than the other Value for money is very important I agree, and the more ideas and suggestions we get the better. We have research the membership on the services we offer and indeed the 5 strategic objectives to see where we were over or under delivering, and I would agree the more of that we do the better And finally to so many of you that have posted kind words about BASC (and even grumpy old me) I say a personal THANK YOU. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC45 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I can't believe this is thread is still going. If you don't want BASC insurance don't buy it. :hmm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan_J Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I truly don't think the people taking pot shots at basc truly realize the enormous team that is in place to help people. You simply won't get this support in any other organisation if you want support and professional representation of your sport join basc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildgoose1uk Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 To be honest I agree with what others have said regarding insurance. It is a minor item and should be considered an additional extra to the membership and not a reason for joining. I do think it is a good hook for prospective members though and it was certainly what first interested me in joining. For all the CSA closeness geographically to Westminster and how cheaply they can get there it really does not seem to have done them that much good either initially before the fix hunting ban became legislation or more recently on getting it repealed. To be honest, I have said before it is horses for courses and as David BASC has said you join the organisation that is right for you. Just going purely on membership numbers it would seem that most shooters in the UK pick either BASC or NRA (either personally or through a club) with a good number (as I will be come March!!) being personal members of both. Having said that I do believe that there is mileage in an umbrella style alliance of organisations (not unlike the Disasters Emergency Committee) where we can come together and present a united front, at least on certain issues. This way all shooters would get the advantages of all organisations, BASc with their expertise, contacts and membership numbers, others with membership numbers and contacts. The sort sightedness of some current advertising campaigns is unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 It may only cost the CA £2.30 to get to westminster due to their closeness but how much is their rent? Surely the money could be better spent on fighting the anti's rather than lining a landlords pockets. Even if they own the building there annual costs must be sky high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 There is an umbrella 'organisation, , its the British Shooting Sports Council and it is they that came up with the idea for the National Shooting Week for example, its a BSSC project that the CA kindly administers for the BSSC. I think ,from memory the CA pay a very small rent for their London Office but doubtless David will let us know. Best wishes to all David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Well, this thread that started off as a question on shooting insurance comparisons (NGO-V-BASC - remember ?) has morphed in its usual way to a proBASC/antiBASC, proanyone else/anti anyone else thread. Its time to put it to bed, until the next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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