DaveK Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I'd buy you and Mark a pint if we ever meet! David Well get yer butt up here then. Mark doesn't drink but he can watch me drink his. Another one for West Yorks. mate of mine even offered to give up his .223 for a .243 on an open ticket (as is his .223). He was turned down on the grounds that he would be stepping up SUBSTANTIALLY in calibre. I've never heard so much bull in my life considering that this open/closed business is about safety and not calibre. A C/F rifle is a C/F rifle. In fact a .308 bullet will drop quicker than either a .223 or .243 and, no doubt a 22/250, ballistically, probably has a flatter trajectory than a .243. I'm sure they just look at numbers on paper and can't get to grips with the minimal difference in bullet size of .223 and ..243 (or to make it easier for them, 5.56 and 6mm (.44mm)). Oh BTW, he's one of your lot I believe so warning of incoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Well get yer butt up here then. Mark doesn't drink but he can watch me drink pi ss. would love to Another one for West Yorks. mate of mine even offered to give up his .223 for a .243 on an open ticket (as is his .223). He was turned down on the grounds that he would be stepping up SUBSTANTIALLY in calibre. I've never heard so much bull in my life considering that this open/closed business is about safety and not calibre. A C/F rifle is a C/F rifle. In fact a .308 bullet will drop quicker than either a .223 or .243 and, no doubt a 22/250, ballistically, probably has a flatter trajectory than a .243. I'm sure they just look at numbers on paper and can't get to grips with the minimal difference in bullet size of .223 and ..243 (or to make it easier for them, 5.56 and 6mm (.44mm)). Oh BTW, he's one of your lot I believe so warning of incoming. So do you think a substantial increase in cost will change owt please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 AAAAAnnnnndddddd another thing. We pay for all this rubbish. They seem to forget the we are their customers and they are our servants. They wouldn't ladt five minutes in the private sector, except maybe on the checkouts at Morrisons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 So do you think a substantial increase in cost will change owt please. Will it 'eck. It'll just mean we're paying more for what will become less due to cutbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I would suggest that the police rate a centerfires ability on it's muzzle energy rather than how flat it shoots.I would also suggest that a .243 has a much greater ME than a .223 and again a .308 would be potentially greater than a .243. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 i would pay it and keep on shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I would suggest that the police rate a centerfires ability on it's muzzle energy rather than how flat it shoots.I would also suggest that a .243 has a much greater ME than a .223 and again a .308 would be potentially greater than a .243. No wonder you call yourself OCD. The police that we tend to deal with know jack about it. Muzzle energy to them is how hard a dog can bite. Just listen to them trying to out-justify a knowledgeable shooter on why they shouldn't grant a request. And nine times out of ten here in West Yorks, you don't get past the admins who are very nice ladies following orders from the faceless muppets who are hiding behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Our starting point is to get their act together. If it’s a poor service now just using the same people with the same incompetent and / or bloody-minded attitude but us paying over more for is not going to make any difference! Better service, more consistency and more accountability. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 What ever happens with it David, good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I would be more than surprised if 50% of my firearm department staff had a clue about M E / M V of any rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 What ever happens with it David, good luck with it. Careful Mark, we've both been nice to David within the space of an hour. :o He'll be checking his back for knives in it if we're not careful. David, one thing that doesn't help is that even ACPO recommendations can be ignored and I'm sure in some cased Chief Constables are unaware of what their licensing departments are doing or the pseudo empires that exist. Maybe instead of tackling FLO's when issues arise, they likes of BASC, SACS, NGO, etc should try to deal further UP the foodchain and make the most senior officers directly answerable. It might make them wonder why they're being pestered when they have staff to do it for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Jeez OCD, you've been writing your answer for at least 10 minutes. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Basc reps it is said on here have a very good relationship with FEO,S , perhaps that relationship is a little to cosy at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 http://tna.europarchive.org/20100419081706/http:/www.police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/operational-policing/HO-Firearms-Guidance2835.pdf?view=Binary Skip to page 77 kind of explains all especially if you read the entire document. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Jeez OCD, you've been writing your answer for at least 10 minutes. :P Watching telly at the same time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ91 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 i wouldnt enjoy writing the cheque (not that i enjoy writing any cheque!) but it would take more than that for me to give up my shooting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) http://tna.europarchive.org/20100419081706/http:/www.police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/operational-policing/HO-Firearms-Guidance2835.pdf?view=Binary Skip to page 77 kind of explains all especially if you read the entire document. A copy of which adorns one of my bookshelves and has done since it was published. What you watching? Edited February 19, 2011 by DaveK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 May I ask, as someone else has done, why, apparently, it takes a change of this potential magnitude to electrify the shooting community reps to seek as a priority, reasonable consistency in the interpretation of the ACPO firearm guidelines and why not effectively before this? In my humble opinion, allowing the complexity and wildly differing interpretations that have developed and then suggesting we need to resolve this and MAY accept a 'cost related' increase in the Licence fees to see this happen, is a simple abrogation of responsibility. 'Reacting' is not good enough and not worth the faith invested by the shooting community. Proactive reprentation is not, definately not, accepting the bleating entreaty of the police that 'if we could charge what it costs we could manage approach'. If the police cannot manage this function effectively, give it to the private sector and MAKE them accept the guidelines via the ability to challenge their interpretation in court and claim damages. How much of the internal police overheads are incorrectly charged to Firearms licensing? How much CC or ACC time is charged to this and results in extra(unjustified costs), has anyone challenged the police costings, based on 'best value accounting'? This information can be requested under the FOI Act, for many years. The police, as with other organisations, thrive on 'the status quo'. What we shooters need is some body which will challenge the status quo and not be part of it ! David, I have no argument with you. Basc, thats a bit different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Csi miami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Kes, I believe that all best value assessment reports are supposed to be public domain but trying to sort out which KLOE to check may be all but impossible. OCD SNAP mate. That ginger bint's fit if I may say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 If having the monopoly means 'they get away with it',then what assurances can we be given that they wont 'get away with it' again David.Whatever happens,they'll still have the monopoly. I don't understand this downer people have on FEO's either,they're don't have any say in what you can and can't do,they're just representatives of those above them.It isn't FEO's that impose 'conditions' on applications,it's the chief officer.If you're not happy about 'conditions' get in touch with your shooting organisation. . Stopping shooting is not an option for me,it's not a hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 2002 the guidance was updated, it was a perfect time for the shooting organisations to have some input into it. but nothing, the acpo mob know of the problems and issued there views a couple of years back, but the shooting organisations did zilch. these problems are nothing new, and should have been sorted before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I don't understand this downer people have on FEO's either,they're don't have any say in what you can and can't do,they're just representatives of those above them.It isn't FEO's that impose 'conditions' on applications,it's the chief officer. Do you ACTUALLY believe that Scully? Is your FEO in the room with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Kes, I believe that all best value assessment reports are supposed to be public domain but trying to sort out which KLOE to check may be all but impossible. OCD SNAP mate. That ginger bint's fit if I may say so. you have all on sorting a ginger biscuit. :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Kes, I believe that all best value assessment reports are supposed to be public domain but trying to sort out which KLOE to check may be all but impossible. OCD SNAP mate. That ginger bint's fit if I may say so. I have to say I don't watch it for it's thrilling plot lines more for the skirt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.