Catweazle Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 This is like discusing driving with my eleven year old, waste of time till she has some experiance You're a funny guy Now I've stopped laughing perhaps you could answer the question. But enough minutiae, do you agree that HMR shoots flatter and taked less wind than the .22 rimfires or not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 The figures vary depending on were you look, even two different barrels will perform differently. BC is calculated from chrongraphed velocities at multiple distances along the flightpath of the bullet. So many factors without common controls mean you need to test data not just blindly follow it So if a certain bullet was performing worse than expected for someone then their rifle could be the cause ? Who'd have thought that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Or it could be that the published BC figure is off. Hence why field checks are important... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 The figures vary depending on were you look, even two different barrels will perform differently. BC is calculated from chrongraphed velocities at multiple distances along the flightpath of the bullet. So many factors without common controls mean you need to test data not just blindly follow it I see you did not answer my last question heres another Please explain the quote above in more detail ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peek-at Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 And would this be with sub's or HV's? If it's sub's your walking a silly line mate, thats way too far out for consistant 22LR kills with subs if taking into account drop (around 16" with subs) and wind drift (dependant on wind)... pot shots are not a good idea! Regards Gixer Gixer Agreed mate..... I said I can hit a rabbit at 120 yds not that I do...... Im no expert but I agree with some comments that charts are not really a substitute for real life and should be taken as a guide and not 'gospel' eg. 'chairgun' states that for me a target at 91yds will be spot on 2 mildots..... I tried it last night on a target (admittedly I paced it out and didnt measure it precisely) but shooting from a rest my shot was 2.5 inches low......Thats more like 3 mildots to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 So if a certain bullet was performing worse than expected for someone then their rifle could be the cause ? Who'd have thought that. NO! the BC of a bullet is going to change when fired through different barrels and tested under different climatic conditions, you realy don't get this do you and i am getting bored now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 You're a funny guy Now I've stopped laughing perhaps you could answer the question. I did read the thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 NO! the BC of a bullet is going to change when fired through different barrels and tested under different climatic conditions, you realy don't get this do you and i am getting bored now I suggested, when dekers wrote that his HMR was bad in the wind, that he might have a problem with his barrel which was causing a poor BC. Did you miss that bit too ? As for climatic conditions, well I did assume that he wasn't saying that his HMR on a cold winters day drifts more than his WMR does in August. So let's have your opinion, why is dekers HMR worse in the wind than his WMR ? I want to hear your theory. Don't beat around the bush or claim you're too bored to answer, give me a credible reason why the HMR V-Max at 2550fps would drift more than the factory WMR loadings. Perhaps you could put some figures through your beloved Sierra software and post the results. Some shooters have recorded real-world BC of just 0.123 for the V-Max, so use that if you like. On the other hand, don't bother. You know what the results will be already don't you, and frankly I don't care any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I suggested, when dekers wrote that his HMR was bad in the wind, that he might have a problem with his barrel which was causing a poor BC. Did you miss that bit too ? As for climatic conditions, well I did assume that he wasn't saying that his HMR on a cold winters day drifts more than his WMR does in August. So let's have your opinion, why is dekers HMR worse in the wind than his WMR ? I want to hear your theory. Don't beat around the bush or claim you're too bored to answer, give me a credible reason why the HMR V-Max at 2550fps would drift more than the factory WMR loadings. Perhaps you could put some figures through your beloved Sierra software and post the results. Some shooters have recorded real-world BC of just 0.123 for the V-Max, so use that if you like. On the other hand, don't bother. You know what the results will be already don't you, and frankly I don't care any more. Hey me and Dekers have had our debates - but who am i or YOU to argue as i don't shoot WMR and neither do you. He is not the first to dispute the balistics of the calbre though many claim better than published data for this gun as regards accuraccy and windage, i would try one myself and see but it's too close to a hornet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hey me and Dekers have had our debates - but who am i or YOU to argue as i don't shoot WMR and neither do you. He is not the first to dispute the balistics of the calbre though many claim better than published data for this gun as regards accuraccy and windage, i would try one myself and see but it's too close to a hornet OK. Whatever. I'm not going to argue about it any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcf1 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I've had HMR for years before recently getting rid due to stupid ammo costs. I shoot a LOT (and I really do mean that) of bunnies, so .22lr has to be the way forward if I want to afford my nice deer rifles. I have to say that having shot and zeroed both in middling to stronger crosswinds the .22lr is absolutely definately a ****** to zero if its is breezy whereas it never seemed to make a massive distance for the hmr. Bearing in mind the .22 was zeroed closer in too that pretty much says it all to me. And that's lots of experience, NOT charts I think someone should volunteer to do a field test here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hey me and Dekers have had our debates - but who am i or YOU to argue as i don't shoot WMR and neither do you. He is not the first to dispute the balistics of the calbre though many claim better than published data for this gun as regards accuraccy and windage, i would try one myself and see but it's too close to a hornet Hornet outperforms the HMR, it's considerably better than either rimfire, while costing similar to run and making the same amount of noise - much better calibre!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Hi, For my money, the guys at posts #84, 86 and 87 have this all wrapped up. After months of faffing about and with the exception of just checking the precise 35gr trajectory, my WMR and 223 are up for grabs; replaced by the Hornet. A 40gr Nosler BT departing the barrel at 2982ft/sec with a 3/8", 1" high group at 90yds takes care of the 223 (which although superb was overpowered for my needs). A 35gr Hornady V Max (magazine fed) departing the barrel at 2940 with a 1/4" group at 50yds with the final trajectory to be decided ( at the moment both weights share the same "first zero" so I may just get lucky) replaces (plus some) the WMR. Have to say that I'm well pleased and relieved as that was quite a chunk of put your money where....... Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Your 35gr load seems slow - what you running there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Your 35gr load seems slow - what you running there? Hi, Yep. This was always going to be secondary to the 40/3000 objective and to replace the WMR for long range rabbit. Kept to the same powder - 13.1gr (13.5 for the 40) of Lil Gun. Could possibly squeeze in a tad more but it already meets my requirement. Having been grounded for the past 5 months the first priority is to get out and sort the fox population. However, and apart from the fact that it's not necessary, may just have a fiddle later on providing the two trajectories from one barrel remain workable. Any suggestions? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I use H110, can't remember how much off the top of my head, need to check the label, but it gives me about 3075fps. Excellent accuracy too, and I prefer it as it's so fine it can be thrown really accurately, as well as not filling the case. Just makes life a touch easier. For the 40gr, I would definitely use the Lilgun though. I haven't got the know-how to sort out my magazine, which is a shame as a 40gr NBT or BK would be ideal in Hornet. I did test them, work a charm but a pain loading single shot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I use H110, can't remember how much off the top of my head, need to check the label, but it gives me about 3075fps. Excellent accuracy too, and I prefer it as it's so fine it can be thrown really accurately, as well as not filling the case. Just makes life a touch easier. For the 40gr, I would definitely use the Lilgun though. I haven't got the know-how to sort out my magazine, which is a shame as a 40gr NBT or BK would be ideal in Hornet. I did test them, work a charm but a pain loading single shot! Ta. Mate uses 110 so can scrounge some and try it. My Weihrauch mag is impossible to modify for length but it does have a smooth, flat loading surface which was one reason for getting it. With it, single shot is simple. Just means that you need 2, one precharged with the 35s if you think that you may see rabbit and fox in the one outing. If you think about it, unless you have foxes coming out of the woods in droves, you're only going to load a couple a night if that. It is a tasty round and worth the effort: Why not make up a dummy (1.950" ish) and practice loading it? Cheers, Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Hi, Yep. This was always going to be secondary to the 40/3000 objective and to replace the WMR for long range rabbit. Kept to the same powder - 13.1gr (13.5 for the 40) of Lil Gun. Could possibly squeeze in a tad more but it already meets my requirement. Having been grounded for the past 5 months the first priority is to get out and sort the fox population. However, and apart from the fact that it's not necessary, may just have a fiddle later on providing the two trajectories from one barrel remain workable. Any suggestions? Cheers Hi, Dropped the Lilgun by 0.1gr as although the first zero for both was very close, the 90yd was too high with the 35 V max but now have them both 1" high. Just in time as down here we get serious right after the clocks have gone forward. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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