Vipa Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) Washing a boresnake inbetween pulls? Madness.. Rod, boreguide and patches for me ta. Maybe I should start taking my cleaning gear up to scotland when I'm stalking! You should always clean any loose debris from the bore before you shoot or go out on a stalk... It would be totally impractical to take rods, patches, fluids, gun vise etc.. The BS does what I need it to do... remove any crud from the barrel before I send a bullet up it and remove any crud again before I slip it for the journey home.. No one here is claiming that a BS will replace cleaning rods and a thorough clean with solvents etc. but for day to day use between thorough cleans, they can't be beat.... More damage is done to bores with rods than anything else, so the less times you stick a rod up your barrel the better! A bore guide minimises the chance but doesn't prevent it completely. Edited April 19, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 mine gets washed when its dirty, as Vipa says its a regular cleaning tool rather than the deep clean rods etc, that said if you buy a decent one it is surprising what they get out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Boresnake?!? Doesn't everyone swab out with a sponge and water after each shot? not anymore !! we also had to p ee down the barrel before taking the next load of shots at a column of blue coated froggies in the good old days when the frenchman was to be found on the general license, but technology has moved on with cleaning products as well as firearms in the last 200 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 If you look through the barrel prior to and after using a snake you see they do remove a lot of general by products of combustion which to me is a good thing, copper is different but you need solvent to remove it if you apply the solvent then use the snake you would be surprised what comes out. I'm sure some depends on the quality of the snake and its not for a proper clean then you need rods but for something for day to day use they are pretty good. GB depends if you wash them in between which is perfectly possible shotgun wise I don't use anything else now as a quick squirt and pull through and it looks sparklingly clean. More to the point as it takes seconds it actually gets done each time out Alex... how do you get rid of the streaky fouling just passed the forcing cones? I think it's caused by plaswads but I've noticed it with fibre wads too.. The bain of my life! I can't put my shottie away without mirror finish barrels and have resorted to a very dense Napier phos bronze brush on a short wooden rod stuck in my cordless drill.. It's the only way I seem to be able to get rid of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I have to say I'm entirely on fibre carts at the moment and haven't noticed it with them, though I may be being less fussy as this is a vast improvement on my last cleaning regime which wasn't very regular Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Nothing stopping you using solvents with a boresnake.... a cleaning rod and brushes alone won't remove copper fouling without the solvents! What BS are good at is removing particulates from the bore before and after shooting (particularly before.... the damage a grain of sand can do being forced up the barrel by a bullet is amazing!) and they remove the bulk of any carbon deposits which is far more damaging than copper. Copper, in fact, isn't a problem at all unless it builds up to the point of changing the dimensions of the bore, particularly in an uneven manner. Under normal circumstances, a little bit of copper fouling actually acts as a bore protector, putting something between the bullet & powder and the bare metal... imagine completely stripping the oil off the pistons in your engine before each thrust! Think about it... when you clean and strip a barrel back to bare metal it is not consistently accurate... you have to put a layer of copper down with foulers to bring the accuracy back. Copper is benign when in contact with the metal so why on earth bother to get rid of it when, all you are going to need to do is put more copper down there to bring the rifle back to shooting straight.... the best thing to do is leave the copper in there and get rid of it when/if it starts affecting accuracy at the other end but you will find this will only start to happen after many hundreds of rounds. The important thing to get rid of is anything that could be potentially corrosive or cause pitting..... Carbon! Bore snakes are great at getting rid of that.. Leave the copper in there, it's doing more good than bad most of the time... even the americans have cottoned on to this and world champs no longer clean every 5 mins! Sorry chap, you don't, you simply have to clean the barrel, CLEAN barrels shoot straight, not those with and assortment of debris spread along them, whatever it may be. This myth about laying a layer of lead or copper down a barrel to make it shoot straight is simply that, a myth, what you have to do is clean the barrel thoroughly and get rid of everything, those that perpetuate this myth simply do not clean there barrels (even though they all protest they do), what they actually do is clean them a bit, raise assorted fouling, usually copper and then suggest it is clean, it isn't. It can commonly be in worse condition than before they started cleaning, it then needs, in some cases, silly amounts of rounds through it to clear off/lay flatter the aggravated copper! My barrels get cleaned, and I do NOT have to put any ammo down them for them to shoot straight, one or at the very most 2 shots simply to clean any solvents/oils that may be left in the barrel, they shoot then, and commonly very well from shot 1, although I am happier to trust shot 2! ATB! Bore Snakes were developed for shotguns as a quick once over to get rid of primarily propellant residue, the marketing men have done an excellent job promoting them for rifles, but they do not clean like the rod/brush. Bore snakes certainly have a place (although I have never been happy with them for the .17) but as a quick once over until you can do the job properly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Sorry chap, you don't, you simply have to clean the barrel, CLEAN barrels shoot straight, not those with and assortment of debris spread along them, whatever it may be. This myth about laying a layer of lead or copper down a barrel to make it shoot straight is simply that, a myth, what you have to do is clean the barrel thoroughly and get rid of everything, those that perpetuate this myth simply do not clean there barrels (even though they all protest they do), what they actually do is clean them a bit, raise assorted fouling, usually copper and then suggest it is clean, it isn't. It can commonly be in worse condition than before they started cleaning, it then needs, in some cases, silly amounts of rounds through it to clear off/lay flatter the aggravated copper! My barrels get cleaned, and I do NOT have to put any ammo down them for them to shoot straight, one or at the very most 2 shots simply to clean any solvents/oils that may be left in the barrel, they shoot then, and commonly very well from shot 1, although I am happier to trust shot 2! ATB! Bore Snakes were developed for shotguns as a quick once over to get rid of primarily propellant residue, the marketing men have done an excellent job promoting them for rifles, but they do not clean like the rod/brush. Bore snakes certainly have a place (although I have never been happy with them for the .17) but as a quick once over until you can do the job properly... Well.. I'm just repeating what those who do this for a living are quoting... the basics surround the myth about breaking a barrel in but the implications are the same! http://www.6mmbr.com/GailMcMbreakin.html http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek031.html (the bit about cleaning is just under the schematic of a .308 cartridge) Now.... I am following their advice, I do not have enough first hand knowledge to discuss the ins and outs with you but I feel pretty certain these guys know what they are talking about and the results are exactly what you would expect... cold bore accuracy and no other issues.. and the results these guys get more than prove a point. At the more extreme end of the scale, if a match barrel has an expected life of 1000 rds, then having to put 2 or 3 foulers through it every time it was used would be a huge waste of resources! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 are we talking RF HMR's here? or CF .17AI or FB ammo? who has copper fouling in their HMR barrel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I use the RUAG make of 'boresnake',which are also good quality and not the sort that Nick mentioned in the 1st post of this particular thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRDS Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Well I use them on all my Shotguns and Rifles and they all shoot great so they can't be all bad, personally I love them and more importantly all 4 of my rifles shoot to the point of aim first shot after a clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I use my 'boresnake' after every use of my CF and Shotgun.They shoot well for me everytime too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Gould Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 i allways use a boresnake on mine shoots spot on everytime, easyer to take around in the field too, as hmr needs regular cleaning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 are we talking RF HMR's here? or CF .17AI or FB ammo? who has copper fouling in their HMR barrel? Most poeople who own a HMR, how many HMR rounds are you aware of that are not copper coated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Well.. I'm just repeating what those who do this for a living are quoting... the basics surround the myth about breaking a barrel in but the implications are the same! http://www.6mmbr.com/GailMcMbreakin.html http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek031.html (the bit about cleaning is just under the schematic of a .308 cartridge) Now.... I am following their advice, I do not have enough first hand knowledge to discuss the ins and outs with you but I feel pretty certain these guys know what they are talking about and the results are exactly what you would expect... cold bore accuracy and no other issues.. and the results these guys get more than prove a point. At the more extreme end of the scale, if a match barrel has an expected life of 1000 rds, then having to put 2 or 3 foulers through it every time it was used would be a huge waste of resources! I'm not repeating anything I have heard, I am simply outlining my experiences, and yes, I accept I am of the Old School and cut my teeth rimfire target shooting as a team player and coach, back from my teenage days. I also do it for a living now (not target shooting) and I cannot help but laugh at those who constantly suggest you need 20-30-40 or even 50 round through your rifle to bring it back sweet after a clean. We are not discussing cold bore accuracy, that is a debatable scenario and means whatever anyone wants it to mean, we are talking about whether a Bore Snake cleans a bore/rifle as well as old school methods, the answer is without doubt NO. But we live in a must have, 2 minutes and it's done world, and you will never convince many bore snake owners and hour or two cleaning your gun is worth it. The reality is it isn't for many anyway, for field use 1" does for me, and I can do it, we are talking forums and lets be honest, many who shoot/talk on forums would give their right arm to shoot 1". How many people do you ever hear suggesting their OWN Rifle/Calibre/Ammo/Ability is ****, it is always the best going.....oh yes....and everyone knows the best way to clean their own gun too! ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 How often do you clean your rifles Dekers? I hear all sorts on here from yearly down to every outing, mine gets a bore snake regularly and a decent clean CF probably about 50 shots and rimfire nearer 250 I'm happier to give it a little attention with the bore snake regularly rather than just leave it and give it a decent clean at those intervals, must say though you are lucky if your hmr shoots straight after a clean as most I've heard of don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 I never thought I would say it, but.. this thread is crying out for a Frenchieboy type video Dirty barrel pulled through with a snake and then cleaned with a rod/jags please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRDS Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 I never thought I would say it, but.. this thread is crying out for a Frenchieboy type video Dirty barrel pulled through with a snake and then cleaned with a rod/jags please The point is do barrels have to be meticulously clean to shoot well, the answer is no which is why Boresnakes are perfectly adequate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted April 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 my .17hmr was shooting a bit wild recently, and i'd lost my boresnake, hence the thread - but a couple of pull throughts with it and it's bang on the buck again - that's good enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 I never thought I would say it, but.. this thread is crying out for a Frenchieboy type video Dirty barrel pulled through with a snake and then cleaned with a rod/jags please no one is saying a barrel never needs cleaning or that a bore snake is a replacement for rods, patches & solvents. It is obvious that if you used rods & solvents on a barrel cleaned with a pull through, you would get more out... the point is, a boresnake does a great job as an interim tool to remove loose carbon deposits and other debris, it is not designed to remove copper. It is very portable and far mor practical in the field than rods etc. we are arguing that apples are oranges here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 I never thought I would say it, but.. this thread is crying out for a Frenchieboy type video Dirty barrel pulled through with a snake and then cleaned with a rod/jags please didn't you mention your .223 getting cleaned yearly or was it my imagination the main point is would it be better with a bore snake used in between proper cleans. I'd say yes and the strange thing is like Nick my hmr will go wild but a snake brings it back for another 200 shots or so. May not remove the copper but if you use solvents that fact is debateable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRDS Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 I allways use solvent with the Boresnake, just dip the bronze brush section in solvent before pulling through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) How often do you clean your rifles Dekers? I hear all sorts on here from yearly down to every outing, mine gets a bore snake regularly and a decent clean CF probably about 50 shots and rimfire nearer 250 I'm happier to give it a little attention with the bore snake regularly rather than just leave it and give it a decent clean at those intervals, must say though you are lucky if your hmr shoots straight after a clean as most I've heard of don't My centrefires get stripped and cleaned every outing (so long as they get fired), so do the Wildcat Mods fitted to all of them. It may well be anal and I think the only reason I clean the mods so often is ..because you can.... with the Wildcat P8. The Shotguns are without fail EVERY use. My HMR and WMR probably get a full strip and clean about every 30-50 shots, that can sometimes be every use, but is usually every 2 or 3 outings (and that is not months apart, it is usually just days). The .22lr which is used exclusively for lead sub sonics these days is less often, probably 100-200 rounds. The fact is this is a PROPER Clean, not a quick once over, it takes time, it is not a 5 minute wonder, and afterwords my rifles shoot. I do not have to waste 50 HMR down the barrel and injure/miss a whole load of wildlife before they work after a clean! It may not be fashionable and it may be a pain to many (and frankly rifle cleaning is not my favorite pastime) but do it right and rifles work. Is it better to clean properly and take the time, or waste a whole load of shots/ammo before you can use it! You takes your choice, I clean! With respect I am not lucky my HMR shoots after a clean, everyones would if they cleaned it properly and regularly! I am not preaching here and everyone is obviously at liberty to do exactly what they want with their rifles, but clean rifles shoot, dirty ones don't, so please do not let anyone tell you they cleaned their rifle and now it doesn't shoot, they didn't, they raised fouling without clearing it and left the barrel worse than when they started, that's why it doesn't shoot. It is complete bull to suggest a copper/lead/propellant lined barrel shoots better than a clean one (assuming the barrel is in good condition to start with of course). ATB! Edited April 20, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 It is complete bull to suggest a copper/lead/propellant lined barrel shoots better than a clean one (assuming the barrel is in good condition to start with of course). ATB! If that's the case, why do world class shooters always put foulers down range before they shoot competitively? If your suggestion was correct, it would be most advantageous for them to ensure they started shooting from a pristine, cold barrel? I absolutely guarantee that if you fired 2 x 3 shot groups (from a rock solid rest so that the nut behind the bolt is taken out of the equasion,) the first group of 3 shot from your freshly cleaned barrel will not be as tight as the next (and indeed, subsequent) group of 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 If that's the case, why do world class shooters always put foulers down range before they shoot competitively? If your suggestion was correct, it would be most advantageous for them to ensure they started shooting from a pristine, cold barrel? I absolutely guarantee that if you fired 2 x 3 shot groups (from a rock solid rest so that the nut behind the bolt is taken out of the equasion,) the first group of 3 shot from your freshly cleaned barrel will not be as tight as the next (and indeed, subsequent) group of 3 Because nothing removes cleaning/chemical/solvent deposits out of a barrel like a round down it (or two) end of...just like I have said earlier in this thread. Like I have also said, do and believe what you like, my rifles shoot, ALL of them after a clean, I don't need stupid quantities of ammo down them like many suggest is required to make them work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Thats interesting Dekers, have to say a lot would suggest you're causing more wear to the rifles by cleaning than shooting them with that cleaning regime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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