Toombsy Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 My 11-year-old daughter has just come back from a school-organised PGL adventure weekend. One of the activities was air rifle shooting. Great - I thought - they will really enjoy that and maybe, just maybe, we will have a load more potential shooters join us motley bunch in years to come. But in steps Health and Safety.... The woman in charge told the youngsters that the lead pellets are very poisonous and you shouldn't touch your face or mouth after handling them. So what happened next...? That scared the life out of the kids and they didn't want to do it, including my girl, who's shot before. I'm going away now to bang my head against a wall. Goodbye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 It`s true though it is poisonous but with sensible procedures like hand washing after handling it`s perfectly safe, i read a study at some point the blood brain barrier is thinner in kids so lead poisoning is easier or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 For crying out loud , I must have eaten 4 stone of lead pellets in my life time . All they ever did to me was to make me a grumpy old man . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsm1968 Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 For crying out loud , I must have eaten 4 stone of lead pellets in my life time . All they ever did to me was to make me a grumpy old man . Harnser . That must be what's wrong with me. I spent most school holidays out in the fields with an old springer and mouthfull of pellets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPV4 Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) Yet again the poor application of H&S, common sense once again doesn't prevail Yes there are issues regarding the use of lead but if the hazards had been assessed correctly and the hierarchy of control applied there shouldn't have been an issues, and the kids would have had a great time Everything can be done as long as it has been correctly assessed, the hazards associated with the tasks/activity have been identified and the risks assessed. When this has been done appropriate control measures can be implemented to ensure all who may be effected are kept safe and well. More often than not the issue is those who don't understand the hazards and the risks associated with the activity, apply control measures incorrectly. Knowing they were instructing groups of children why didn't they substitute the lead pellets for a different type of pellet? If this had been done they would only have had to worry about the kids shooting each other Were washing facilities or wipes etc provided? How closely were they being supervised? How was the information regarding the use of lead pellets and lead poisoning relayed/communicated to the children? This should be done sympathetically so as to inform he group but not frighten them, and should not have put them off taking part in the activity, which it obviously did. If the pellets couldn't have been substitited for any reason the childrens contact with lead would have been minimal and simple instruction along with a pack of wet wipes should have done the trick Everyone would have had a good day out Edited May 16, 2011 by KPV4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staglioni Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 So why didn't the instructor's load for the kid's? Simple! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I was once told by a head teacher that he didnt want the kids to go ferreting because of all the screaming and killing ? I was working in a BORSTAL at the time ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 True, there are "hazzards" with using lead pellets but there is a very simple solution to this one - Use non toxic pellets, maybe something like "Prometheus" (sp). Surely it doesn't take Einstein to work that one out, does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWD Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) So why didn't the instructor's load for the kid's? Simple! Bang on Staglioni That should have been the norm anyway with kids Edited May 17, 2011 by PWD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Yes, lead is toxic. But, if H&S are to be believed, all stained glass/ leaded light hobbyists and professionals should drop dead within a few weeks. Well, I did Stained glass/glass engraving for 20 yrs. I have loads of friends and acquaintances who do it. There's Stained Glass suppliers around the country where you can walk in off the street and buy 50kg of lead came if you want. Harm me didn't no &^%&^$&^476mmmmmmmmmmm weeeeee!!!! When my daughter was 13 I had to ask the School for permission for her to work part time learning glass engraving and serve in my shop. They refused because, in order to prevent child slavery, children were not allowed to undertake any industrial process whatsoever. Also, because there's lead Oxide in the glass, she might suffer lead poisoning. I asked him to quote one single case. He just said "That's the rules". I was about to hang up when he said "If you need help in your shop would you consider giving a schoolchild a work experience placement"? So I asked what the difference was between someone else's child and mine? He said that it was OK because the School monitored all placements. So I asked him how many staff in the school had experience in monitoring the hazards relating to Plumbo Invitro? After a couple of seconds of silence I put the phone down. I've no doubt that health and safety have a role to play but I wish they would make their rulings based on fact rather than theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPV4 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 So why didn't the instructor's load for the kid's? Simple! While I agree with your simple control measure, and it is a simple one, as are most control measures are for dealing with safety There may be good reason why the children were expected to load the air rifles they were using. There may have been multiple air rifles in use and not enough members of staff to do the loading, and it may have made the session a little disjointed if they had to wait for the rifles to be loaded. I expect the main reason was possibly so the children had the whole experience of using the air rifles, being able to handle, load, aim and shoot the air rifles safely as part of that whole experience. To be able to load aim and shoot the rifles themselves will give a better sense of achievement and responsibility. After all do we want to stop our children getting the beinefit of the whole experience, being trusted to take on some responsibility? Its not the same just pulling the trigger As I said previously, everything can be done safely as long as it has been assessed correctly and the correct levels of control measures implemented to prevent injury Should we stop or preventing our children, or anyone taking part in an activity or undertaking a task, and then incorrectly blaming H&S because the assessment stages were sadly lacking? I have to ask the question regarding lead, "has the general use of lead been prevented in this country?" the answer is "no", because lead can be safely used, and there are regulations in place to ensure it is, to prevent injury / long term illness to those exposed to it I fully understand where you come from KFC and your experience with the school but you can't blame H&S. You were dealing with a teacher not a H&S professional, and it sounds as thought the teacher was incorrectly applying the procedures to get a placement guarranteed for one of their pupils, so how can you blame H&S, he was prepared to place a child in your care to work. When employing a young person there are specific Regulations which need to be adhered to ensuring the safety of what is a vulnerable group. All young persons must have specific risk assessments carried out prior to them starting any work or undertaking any tasks taking into consideration their age, experience etc. This you would have had to carry out for your work processes as you are better placed to understand the hazards associated with your business, the "competent person". Why did you have to ask the school if your daughter could work part time in the shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I was about to hang up when he said "If you need help in your shop would you consider giving a schoolchild a work experience placement"? So I asked what the difference was between someone else's child and mine? He said that it was OK because the School monitored all placements. I did my work experience at a local carpentry firm and was using bandsaws,circular saws,surface planers etc.Infact almost every item of machinery was capable of doing a lot of harm if things went wrong. PS.This was in the mid 80's though so i guess things have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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