eye dominance shift

[stace1g]

So i decided to shoot a few clays and get some instruction to make sure that my technique was OK (not been shooting shotgun for too long). Anyhow it turns out that I was doing the classic rifle shooters thing of trying to aim the shotgun much like a rifle by sighting along the rib rather than pointing!. I also had to fit a comb raiser as my stock was too low and i wasnt looking down on the barrels enough (encouraging the aiming rather than pointing!.) Once i had got the theory correct i.e. that i need to concentrate on the clay at all times, ingnore the barrels/bead and 'point' not aim I started to hit the lefts to rights quite consistently.

 

However when it came to rights to lefts my eye dominance seemed to swap rapidly between left and right eye and I was missing all but a couple. Coach checked my eye dominance which seemed to be correct for a southpaw like me, anybody else found this? It may be that I was subconsciously looking at the barrels as the right to lerft swing did fell less natural than left to right. Glancing at the barrels i am told can cause an eye dominance shift?

 

Gaz

[Hamster]

So i decided to shoot a few clays and get some instruction to make sure that my technique was OK (not been shooting shotgun for too long). Anyhow it turns out that I was doing the classic rifle shooters thing of trying to aim the shotgun much like a rifle by sighting along the rib rather than pointing!. I also had to fit a comb raiser as my stock was too low and i wasnt looking down on the barrels enough (encouraging the aiming rather than pointing!.) Once i had got the theory correct i.e. that i need to concentrate on the clay at all times, ingnore the barrels/bead and 'point' not aim I started to hit the lefts to rights quite consistently.

 

However when it came to rights to lefts my eye dominance seemed to swap rapidly between left and right eye and I was missing all but a couple. Coach checked my eye dominance which seemed to be correct for a southpaw like me, anybody else found this? It may be that I was subconsciously looking at the barrels as the right to lerft swing did fell less natural than left to right. Glancing at the barrels i am told can cause an eye dominance shift?

 

Gaz

 

If the coach is happy that you`re shooting off the same shoulder as your master eye then just give things a little time. You can`t expect to pick anything up quite that quickly or easily. Once you`ve shot a while longer you may find that you have no problem as such anyway.

[PhilR]

It could be on the left to right shots the stock stays against your face, but if on the right to left shot you push the gun with your front hand the stock can come away from your face which will probably mean you'll miss in front as effectively you'll have given it too much lead.

 

Try shooting on a skeet range to get the feel for shooting crossers both R to L and vice versa.

 

I'm a lefty and have a left master eye and R to L crosser is my bogey bird.

[stace1g]

thanks guys

 

yes perhaps i am expecting too much too soon and have probably picked up some bad habits by not getting coached from day one!

 

On a different but related subject, has anyone tried these fibre optic beads that are claimed to reduce dominance issues?

 

Gaz

[timps]

It could just be your bogey target but If you do notice that the dominance shifts and you are aware of it then it’s a strong possibility you are looking at the side of the barrels rather than down the rib at the clay.

 

This could be due to a bad mount, the comb still slightly too low obscuring the master eyes view (not by much just enough for the brain to switch on certain targets, this has recently happened to me) or you just looking at the barrels and concentrating on them before calling pull (as your non master eye has a better view of the side of the barrels it can take over because the master eye can only see the top rib) .

 

Do shoot gun down or gun up ?

Gun down can help as when you first see the clay you have no visual obstruction so should lock onto it with your master eye first.

If you shoot gun up make sure you look down the rib and onto the target or pick up point rather than concentrating on the barrels with the target or pick up point in the background.

 

The easy hit bead can help, I used one for a while but I just use a truglow one now. Its only fault can be enticing novice shooters to concentrate on the easy hit bead rather than the clay.

[bakerboy]

It could be on the left to right shots the stock stays against your face, but if on the right to left shot you push the gun with your front hand the stock can come away from your face which will probably mean you'll miss in front as effectively you'll have given it too much lead.

 

Try shooting on a skeet range to get the feel for shooting crossers both R to L and vice versa.

 

I'm a lefty and have a left master eye and R to L crosser is my bogey bird.

I agree with Philr, all I would add is that to ensure you are not lifting your face off the stock to look for the target

[stace1g]

It could just be your bogey target but If you do notice that the dominance shifts and you are aware of it then it’s a strong possibility you are looking at the side of the barrels rather than down the rib at the clay.

 

This could be due to a bad mount, the comb still slightly too low obscuring the master eyes view (not by much just enough for the brain to switch on certain targets, this has recently happened to me) or you just looking at the barrels and concentrating on them before calling pull (as your non master eye has a better view of the side of the barrels it can take over because the master eye can only see the top rib) .

 

Do shoot gun down or gun up ?

Gun down can help as when you first see the clay you have no visual obstruction so should lock onto it with your master eye first.

If you shoot gun up make sure you look down the rib and onto the target or pick up point rather than concentrating on the barrels with the target or pick up point in the background.

 

The easy hit bead can help, I used one for a while but I just use a truglow one now. Its only fault can be enticing novice shooters to concentrate on the easy hit bead rather than the clay.

 

the comb was originally too low but a comb raiser helped

 

i think I may be looking at the barrels on a right to left for some reason as i can picture seeing the side of the barrels which was not apparent on left to rights. It is difficult when you are used to shooting rifles not to aim and not to look directly at the barrels/muzzles!. I seem to find it easier then to ignore the gun when I shoot left to right's. And of course the more you try to ignore them the more of a distraction they become :o

 

With regard to thr easyhit bead I did wonder whether it would be just another distraction but i seem to have no problem ignoring the gun with my dominant eye, its my other that seems to want to wander so i thought it may help!

 

Not easy as some people think shooting shotgun this much i have found out so far , I remember a friend of mine saying when I first got it that it must be easy to shoot as all you have to do is 'point it in the general direction and your bound to hit'. Bit more too it me thinks.

 

Gaz

[welshwarrior]

Gaz

 

I could be that your not totally eye dominant and the off eye is interfering you can test this by shooting in saftey glasses and tape off the pupil of the off eye (some else will need to do this for you). eye then can't take over of interfere as it can't see the barrel clay relationship you sub consciously look for, I am centrally dominant and shoot like this all the time to stop my left eye interfering.

[stace1g]

Gaz

 

I could be that your not totally eye dominant and the off eye is interfering you can test this by shooting in saftey glasses and tape off the pupil of the off eye (some else will need to do this for you). eye then can't take over of interfere as it can't see the barrel clay relationship you sub consciously look for, I am centrally dominant and shoot like this all the time to stop my left eye interfering.

 

 

Your maybee right...i show up as left eye dominant (i Shoot on the left) in the tests but when I am shooting right to lefts I am aware of seeing two sets of barrels. This does not happen on lefts to rights so perhaps i am predominately but not totally left eye dominant or maybee i am more prone to glancing at the barrels when shooting rights to lefts? (A cardinal sin i know! and this apparently can induce dominance shifts - the bird, the bird, always focus on the bird, ignore the gun!!!!)

 

I have purchased one of those ruby sights to see if this helps (I have heard both good and bad so it is no doubt down to the individual! as to whether these help). I dont want to obscure my eye as I tried this and it screwed up all my depth perception etc. I let you know how i get on

 

Gaz

Edited May 20, 2011 by stace1g

[The Essex Hunter]

People spend the majority of the lives and time with no concern of eye dominance,

As we spend such a small amount of time, shooting compared to day-to-day life.

Put a gun in their hand, they start missing and it has to be an eye dominance problem.

Shooting is about confidence, loose it or do not have it, then it will work against you.

 

In my opinion, you should be looking at what you want to hit, and swing the gun to suit the speed and direction of the target as one, I never look at the barrels just the target, and if I miss (and I do), I just curse and on to the next bird….

 

I was pigeon shooting with Peter Theobald a couple of weeks ago, it was not easy due to wind direction, the sun, and birds coming over a hedge from behind us.

I missed a simple easy shot of a full profile bird overhead then two more, I shouted to Peter what was I doing wrong, he laughed and said “you are hitting the hard one’s”

Therefore, I just waited until the next bird, killed that, and carried on.

I accept that people may have an eye dominance problem, but I believe they let it rule their shooting, I am sure all the hundreds of farm workers and shooters from yester year, just got on with their shooting……..

 

TEH

[stace1g]

I try to never look at the barrels but it is human nasture for vision to wander and if something is in the periphery of your vision your eyes will be attracted to it. As I have not been shooting for long i am trying to get the basics right first off and one of the issues I have is with looking at the barrels and an asscociated eye dominance shift. People who have been shooting for years have perhaps learned to ignore such things and just get on with it but i am not there....... yet.

it important to assess my eye dominance from the off. I know it is a simple as pointing and shooting but sometimes simple things are the hardest to achieve! Plus i am more used to rifle shooting which demeads a lot more attention being payed to the gun....

 

Gaz

[PhilR]

I shoot in a large community of trap clay shooters and the proportion of them who have eye dominance problems are minimal, most who are affected are women and it is acknowledged that they suffer more than men from this.

 

However, I'm amazed that so many people on PW seem to have an eye dominance problem in relationship to membership numbers.

 

One thing that probably differentiates the two groups is that we trap shooters spend a lot of time on ensuring our guns fit us properly and consistently mount the gun correctly. I've recently been asked by two PW members (no mames to prevent embarrassment)to check gun fit and was surprised to find that their guns didn't fit them by quite a margin. Both cases were right handed and right master eyed. When I checked the eye to rib relationship for one person I could only see an eyebrow so he couldn't possibly see down the rib, in consequence his non master eye must have taken over, or he started lifting his head from the stock causing him no end of misses.

 

I also think that for those who transfer to shotgunning after some time spent rifle shooting will find the idea of keeping two eyes open and concentrating solely on the target and shooting at it whilst the barrels are moving, rather more difficult than sighting with a single eye along a barrel at a static target and extra effort is called for. Making a decision that they are 'wrong' master eyed and either changing shooting shoulder, or start shooting one eyed by masking out part of shooting glasses could be the worst mistake they make.

 

I have suffered from the incorrect diagnosis of a wrong master eye and it messed up my shooting for the best part of 15 years.

 

I'm left handed and I started shooting in 1977 on skeet and then a bit of sporting too, I shot with both eyes open and gun down as most people did in those days. In 1986 I decided to take up trap shooting and started on DTL and I went for several lessons to a ground in the East Midlands with a well known coach. I was missing a lot of clays and was given the wrong master eye diagnosis and that I should tape over the right lense of my glasses to help me overcome it.

 

In hindsight my problem was one of unfamiliarity of using a trap gun, I'd spent 9 years shooting gun down and all of a sudden having a gun premounted with a bead at the end of the barrels smack bang in my vision was something new and I ended up looking at the bead instead of the clay. So what should have happened was that I should have been told to concentrate on the clay, the clay, the clay I'm sure you get the idea.

 

However, I had no reason to doubt the coach's decision and took the tape idea seriously. I moved on from DTL to the international disciplines and felt hampered by my glasses, as I was pretty shortsighted so decided to have laser surgery in 2000. In the interim period I'd been to other coaches who more or less agreed that I was wrong eye dominant despite all the little tests clearly showing I was left master eyed. The problem was now that I was so used to shooting one eyed that when I tried with two eyes my brain couldn't cope with the information it was getting from two eyes and I started to miss, so I reverted to the comfort of a piece of tape again.

 

When I went to see the consultant surgeon who was going to undertake my laser surgery the first question I asked him was to check my eye dominance. He confirmed that I was left eye dominant, that it wasn't a function of eye strength (my left eye has always been the weaker)and that laser surgery wouldn't affect the dominance.

 

Anyway after the operation my shooting went to pot as I could see everything so clearly that I was jumping the clays, this too was compounded by the fact I'd decided to go the whole hog and start shooting with both eyes too. I'd taken three weeks off work and travelled around trap shooting grounds shooting almost every day, gradually I become accustomed to my new found visual acuity and learnt the new sight picture that two eyes give. I've shot for eleven years now with two eyes open and haven't looked back.

 

I'd strongly suggest to anyone to whom a wrong master eye has been diagnosed is to get a second opinion and also get the gun fit checked by a competent person. Simple things such as a too low comb, or failing to concentrate on the target by looking back at the barrels may cause this misdiagnosis and it'll spoil the rest of your shooting career.

Edited May 20, 2011 by PhilR

[stace1g]

Thanks for that Phil, a very interesting post.

 

I am seeeing coach at the mo and although I have left eye dominance my right eye does interfere at times. This could be for many reasons but I am of the mind it is because I shoot rifles as well and am not used to concentrating on the target and ignoring the gun! My gun fit is Ok now but wasnt, I had been shooting for a year with a comb that was too low. This obviously does not help.

 

Gaz

Edited May 22, 2011 by stace1g

[welshwarrior]

Gaz

 

Rifles wont help it can make you look at the barrels I see this alot as I mainly teach soldiers. It results in a stop start swing as they take their eyes of the the clay. The more I see them do it the more I start to do it

 

Invest in some good coaching the best you can find (does not mean most expensive) gun fit could also come into play!! too much to look at on a forum a few lessons is my advice.