Dekers Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) Both WMR and HMR have their uses, and BOTH are VERY capable of dealing with a Fox at 50 yards (simply a distance that has been mentioned above). If you are just after a rabbit tool, then the HMR will probably be first choice, if you are looking for Geese/Fox as well, then probably go WMR. If you can afford both GET both regardless. WMR ammo can generally be slightly cheaper than HMR (Special Offer Hornady Blue HMR possibly excluded). WMR Hits harder and makes bigger holes! If any shooter isn't happy with taking 50 yard Fox shots then fine, don't, but at that distance the accuracy of BOTH is virtually one hole, so be assured, and the power/right ammo upon arrival will drop a fox on the spot without a twitch. Regardless, you have some Dumb Firearms Departments views to deal with around the country For many a HMR and WMR is not necessary, I run them both and a .22lr as well, etc etc and use them all. I have spent some 4 hours on a school site today surveying for the removal of 2 Fox families during the Holiday period. Hell, schools have changed, this site has about 20 CCTV so we have spent a lot of time today tracking and watching the fox, as well as site investigation, and a lot more, plans have been formulated and forwarded and the tools of choice are WMR and HMR, 2 shooters, CF is NOT a consideration on this site! Rimfires have their place on foxes, and blanket statements from anyone that Rimfires are unsuitable for fox is Bull! Edited August 2, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Both WMR and HMR have their uses, and BOTH are VERY capable of dealing with a Fox at 50 yards (simply a distance that has been mentioned above). If you are just after a rabbit tool, then the HMR will probably be first choice, if you are looking for Geese/Fox as well, then probably go WMR. If you can afford both GET both regardless. WMR ammo can generally be slightly cheaper than HMR (Special Offer Hornady Blue HMR possibly excluded). WMR Hits harder and makes bigger holes! If any shooter isn't happy with taking 50 yard Fox shots then fine, don't, but at that distance the accuracy of BOTH is virtually one hole, so be assured, and the power/right ammo upon arrival will drop a fox on the spot without a twitch. Regardless, you have some Dumb Firearms Departments views to deal with around the country For many a HMR and WMR is not necessary, I run them both and a .22lr as well, etc etc and use them all. I have spent some 4 hours on a school site today surveying for the removal of 2 Fox families during the Holiday period. Hell, schools have changed, this site has about 20 CCTV so we have spent a lot of time today tracking and watching the fox, as well as site investigation, and a lot more, plans have been formulated and forwarded and the tools of choice are WMR and HMR, 2 shooters, CF is NOT a consideration on this site! Rimfires have their place on foxes, and blanket statements from anyone that Rimfires are unsuitable for fox is Bull! Who mentioned Geese If your talking spot on the spot placement a .22 sub will easy peasy drop a fox also, its when things dont go to plan (as happens) that the Rimfires become unsuited. Dumb firearms depts? strangely enough most who say no to rimfires and foxes seem to be those with more Rural areas under thier jurisdiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Dumb firearms depts? strangely enough most who say no to rimfires and foxes seem to be those with more Rural areas under thier jurisdiction. now thats a contentious statement, I know counties like Herts aren't that rural but come on even Norfolk allow it. As BASC said if you have vermin on your rimfires you are good to go on foxes, After all not being able to even deal with snared or trapped foxes is a bit of an issue and the caliber works fine. If you take stupid shots then you can be prosecuted whatever you use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Who mentioned Geese If your talking spot on the spot placement a .22 sub will easy peasy drop a fox also, its when things dont go to plan (as happens) that the Rimfires become unsuited. Dumb firearms depts? strangely enough most who say no to rimfires and foxes seem to be those with more Rural areas under thier jurisdiction. Kent, the whole suggestion of your previous posts is when things DON'T go 100% to plan, I can drop a RED STAG with a .22lr sub (and so can MANY Poachers).... we are talking, by your own suggestion about more grunt, a .22WMR will drop a FOX, Goose, etc with ease as long as you are close with the shot placement, and I'm not talking about a head shot on a Canada, I have dropped them with that shot with my air rifle, witnessed, and on the table! .22lr Sub around 100ft lb, .22WMR around 320ft lb AND Devastating Ballistic Tip, there is very little comparison! ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Kent, the whole suggestion of your previous posts is when things DON'T go 100% to plan, I can drop a RED STAG with a .22lr sub (and so can MANY Poachers).... we are talking, by your own suggestion about more grunt, a .22WMR will drop a FOX, Goose, etc with ease as long as you are close with the shot placement, and I'm not talking about a head shot on a Canada, I have dropped them with that shot with my air rifle, witnessed, and on the table! .22lr Sub around 100ft lb, .22WMR around 320ft lb AND Devastating Ballistic Tip, there is very little comparison! ATB! Myself i find shooting geese with rifles distastfulland unessasary. Nobody can 100% garantee things go to plan, this is my very point. shooting canadas with an air rifle? i would fully support any case to procecute no question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 now thats a contentious statement, I know counties like Herts aren't that rural but come on even Norfolk allow it. As BASC said if you have vermin on your rimfires you are good to go on foxes, After all not being able to even deal with snared or trapped foxes is a bit of an issue and the caliber works fine. If you take stupid shots then you can be prosecuted whatever you use its very much the case aound my local counties. Heck there is a guy on here who one area put CWD and Munies on his cert for a .22 Hornet and thats totally an illegal calibre for any deer, thats licencing for the illegal even the cops can't do that even if they think they can . Actually Lancs will put you in court if you shoot foxes under the vermin clasification, courts a funny thing it can always go either way even when your sure it wont. this came directly from the ex-head of licencing. I bet if anybody with good reason enough ever asked if they might have a condtion added that they might shoot Trapped foxes with a .22 rf though i should like to wadger they might get it granted no probs- can't see a mad rush on it though. Do Foxes get shot in Lancs with rimfires? more than likely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Actually Lancs will put you in court if you shoot foxes under the vermin clasification, courts a funny thing it can always go either way even when your sure it wont. this came directly from the ex-head of licencing. so have you a reference to an actual case or is it more pure hearsay and speculation. After BASC putting it quite so publicly in their magazine I would imagine they would have no problems funding the court case. But hey ho I'm betting there is no example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 so have you a reference to an actual case or is it more pure hearsay and speculation. After BASC putting it quite so publicly in their magazine I would imagine they would have no problems funding the court case. But hey ho I'm betting there is no example Are you reffering to the joke about it being illegal to shoot fox with rimfire?. I spoke with BASC about this subject not long back, they were fighting it for a guy in wales (he wasn't being procecuted) he wanted it purely for protecting his chickens near his house not wanting the noise of a shotgun or hazard of pass through high energy ricochets on his cobbles with a centrefire. The statement was made directly to me on the phone from our head of licencing, i actually suport it when you think of it if all areas agreed on .22 rf, 17hmr etc being very exeptable it could have the potential to lead to failure to grant .223 rem etc. Feo's who seem to lack practical knoledge more and more are hard to convince that they might be talking rubbish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 I was referring to the rather bold statement that Lancs will take it to court if you shoot a fox believing it be vermin, obviously hasn't happened yet or you'd have an example. The odds on gaining a prosecution as BASC state is right up there about Zilch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 (edited) I was referring to the rather bold statement that Lancs will take it to court if you shoot a fox believing it be vermin, obviously hasn't happened yet or you'd have an example. The odds on gaining a prosecution as BASC state is right up there about Zilch Directly as stated. Nothing has a Zilch chance in court,ask any solicitor you can stand there with a clear cut case and 100% confident and still loose- however the first thing that they can and will do is instantly revoke your certificate (fine you might get it back after court, consider how long it would take for trial). we should leave this subject it divert the thread and there is only IF's no definates do foxes get shot with rimfires in Lancs? Probebly Edited August 4, 2011 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 yep its so iffy that BASC came straight out and published it was impossible to say foxes aren't vermin to their entire membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 If it's illegal in Lancs.. then what do pest controllers in urban area's use? 243? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 If it's illegal in Lancs.. then what do pest controllers in urban area's use? 243? Its not Illegal if you live in GMP they will grant it and you can come over the border into lancs and shoot them with your rimfire if they are your licencing body, we don't have sepparate laws there are alternatives .243" would actually be ok other than the noise with light frangible bullets in many circumstances though there are better choices. For close fox control i tend to use shotgun - but i aint in an Urban area The Hornet would be my favourite though now very effectively moderated 33 grn and 35 grain high frangibility rounds available and 45 grain stuff can be loaded from 1500- 2900 fps. At the end of the day Foxes used to scavanging are suckers for baited traps, we could always trap them and then drive into GMP area and get a mate to slot them with a rimmie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted August 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Good job I live in Manchester then lol.... Thais for all the advice...got a ruger M77 on order.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Actually Lancs will put you in court if you shoot foxes under the vermin clasification, courts a funny thing it can always go either way even when your sure it wont. this came directly from the ex-head of licencing. I bet if anybody with good reason enough ever asked if they might have a condtion added that they might shoot Trapped foxes with a .22 rf though i should like to wadger they might get it granted no probs- can't see a mad rush on it though. Do Foxes get shot in Lancs with rimfires? more than likely I don't want to be seen as hyjacking this thread but I am in a position to comment on this part of this statement! While running a few fox traps last year I wasn't happy about having to use my .222 for dispatching foxes caught in the metal framed cage traps (For obvious safety reasons) so I called Lancashire Firearms Department. I spoke to Pete Wilkinson (A really great guy that goes out of his way to help) about it and he understood my concerns and offered a solution that I wasn't quite comfortable with - He said that he saw no reason why I should not be authorised to have a .22 pistol to be used purely for "Humane Dispatch of Cage Trapped Foxes". I told him that I didn't really fancy this as I didn't want to go out every morning and walk around the fields looking like "John Wayne with a pistol strapped in a holster". He then suggested (After checking with his head of department) an alternative of me being allowed to use my 17HMR for Dispatching Foxes caught in a Cage Trap! I accepted this alternative (Which was what I really wanted anyway). To add to that, when speaking to him just over a week ago it came up in the conversation and he reminded me that this still stood even though it was not on my FAC as a condition - Maybe I ought to ask to get it in writing on my FAC conditions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 there you go. Can anyone believe they actually suggested a section 5 pistol initially off thier own bat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 there you go. Can anyone believe they actually suggested a section 5 pistol initially off thier own bat I can assure you that this is exactly what was initially suggested! I declined as I did not think that I was trapping enough foxes to warrant it plus, as I said, I just didn't feel that I wanted to be walking about my permissions every morning with a pistol strapped to my hip looking like John Wayne on his way to the OK Corral! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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