S410 or HW100

[BerettaSV10]

Thinking of geting a s410 or HW100, with mod to cover all aspects. will wnat to use it as a all rounder. I had a quick look and play with the HW100 and it feels like a great gun. The last time I used a rifle was in the 70's, so I am very rusty.

 

Next is the scope, cheap ones I have seen start around £35 going upwards to the extreme, is it worth starting with the cheaper scope then progress up to a better sight or start with a better scope?

 

Which type of pellets would you recomend, for what type of target and which size .177 or .22?

 

I have already sourced the divers tank and gauge, with 2 options at the moment a 3ltr 300 bar tank or a 15 ltr 232 bar, the 300 bar although smaller but has a higher fill pressure which compensates for the volume. While the 15 ltr has the volume which out weighs the lower fill pressure.

[Dekers]

There will be little doubt in most peoples mind that the HW100 is the better gun, and I would tend to agree with that.

 

Then there is the real world and personal preference, the HW is TOO solid German engineering and doesn't do it for me, if I was in the market it would be a 410 (not a 510, no need for that either).

 

I'm not going near the .22 or .177 debate

[BerettaSV10]

The HW did feel well made, not yet had chance to try the S410. Agree with the .22 or .177 debate, seams to be a very personal opinion

 

 

 

 

I'm not going near the .22 or .177 debate

[blasterjudd]

Not much in it really

Build quality HW100 total battleship design but guns quite heavy!

AA410 lovely as well but lighter smaller gun

Scope go for a Hawke 3-9 x 50 with mildots should get one with mounts for £50 if buying with the gun?

Calibre flat trajectory on .177 or .22 harder hitting but limited range, go for a calibre that suits your range 30 yards .22 over that use .177 is my thoughts???

Good luck in your decisions.

[hypoboy]

Before parting with money for an HW100, I'd strongly recommend trying one out fully set up with a decent sized scope, rather than just shouldering a bare gun in the shop.

 

I've got one and love it. Phenomenal accuracy and reliability like clockwork - but the weight starts to become an issue for me after a while shooting. I've got other guns, so can pick and choose whatever suits the circumstances, but if it was my only gun, I think I'd be looking to trade it in for something lighter.

[paul87]

I have no experience of either but from regularly reading through this forum the HW100 seems to develop more faults or at least be more prone to having niggles here and there. Just have a search and you'll see how many "Help my HW100 has..."

 

I have read of one issue on the S410 that i can recall to date.

 

As I said before i have no experience and don't have a bias towards one or the other (I have a tx200 and HW80) but just for the above mentioned reason I would have the S410. Everyone always says how reliable and accurate they are and are probably the most suggested gun (on this forum) when someone asks which pcp should i buy.

[bullet boy]

Never felt a HW100 but Weihrauch have always made quality airguns.

On the other hand I have an S410-which is outstanding!My S410 is topped with a Falcon Menace 10x42 Mil-dot scope and Logun Silencer.I use .177 Bisley Magnum pellets too.

This outfit is absolutely devastating out to 35 yards!

You won't be dissapointed if you buy an S410!!

[DIRTYHARRY]

I also had the S410, with a Hawke 4-16x50 MAP PRO, and silencer, whisper quiet, light weight, and was pellet on pellet accuracy at 30 yards.....

the S410's can NOT be faulted.

[BerettaSV10]

Thanks for the help, the HW felt like a quality gun, looks like a afternoon off to go and look at both guns to compare them. The scopes mentioned in these posts came up in a conversation with a friend who shoots air rifles and were also recomended, only difference it was suggested a 44mm optic. The friend also as here said both guns were very good with the HW having good engineering, with the s410 being lighter and more managable if out all day.

 

The last .22 I fired was a rimfire back in the 70's (at this age can't remember the make and model). I do tend to prefer heavier weight guns as I can grip / hold them easier, but if one is out all day the weight could well become a issue. Does any one know how much difference in weight there is between them?

 

I noticed in one post it showed that the .22 had a limited range compared to .177, is this a major limitation or just a few yards?

[turbo33]

I have an HW100 carbine in .177 and an s410 cabine in .177. Both fantastic guns. I was having a conversation with my lad and we both agreed if I kept one it would be the HW. Accuracy wise theres nothing in it. The HW has the advantage of a built in regulator so as the pressure drops off there is no "sweet spot" in the power output. Secondly the s410 is about 3" longer which makes the HW more useful shooting out of the truck window. The HW silencer is ridiculously quiet. The magazine is 14 shots as opposed to the s410's 10. The build quality of the HW is far superior to the AA. Having said all of that, I love using the AA and would never sell it. As for the .177 v .22, its a matter of personal choice. The .22 being a heavier pellet travels slower and with a distinct curve to the flight path. The .177 travels faster and flatter so less compensation needed for different ranges.

I personally use a .177 and find it deadly for all airgun quarry out to 45 yds.

Hope this helps.

[BerettaSV10]

I have an HW100 carbine in .177 and an s410 cabine in .177. Both fantastic guns. I was having a conversation with my lad and we both agreed if I kept one it would be the HW. Accuracy wise theres nothing in it. The HW has the advantage of a built in regulator so as the pressure drops off there is no "sweet spot" in the power output. Secondly the s410 is about 3" longer which makes the HW more useful shooting out of the truck window. The HW silencer is ridiculously quiet. The magazine is 14 shots as opposed to the s410's 10. The build quality of the HW is far superior to the AA. Having said all of that, I love using the AA and would never sell it. As for the .177 v .22, its a matter of personal choice. The .22 being a heavier pellet travels slower and with a distinct curve to the flight path. The .177 travels faster and flatter so less compensation needed for different ranges.

I personally use a .177 and find it deadly for all airgun quarry out to 45 yds.

Hope this helps.

 

Think my biggest problem is the .177 or .22, though with the .177 having a streighter flight path could well be the choice to go for, one less thing to compensate for, while learning. Like the idea of the no sweet spot as well.

[hypoboy]

I noticed in one post it showed that the .22 had a limited range compared to .177, is this a major limitation or just a few yards?

 

I've just spent the afternoon messing around on the range and the HW was hitting knock down target kill zones at 50m in fairly windy conditions so reliably, it was starting to get boring. According to chairgun, an 8.4mm AA Field is still carrying around 6 1/2 ft lb of energy at that range - more than enough to kill airgun prey. With that being the case, it really begs the question, why would you want .22 when the .177 is that much flatter?

 

If you look on youtube for cubleycat's videos, she's shown a non-FAC .177 HW100 hitting targets at 200 yards. I've messed around on the range and was getting pretty good accuracy at 100m without even re-zeroing for long range

[Fat toad]

Think my biggest problem is the .177 or .22, though with the .177 having a streighter flight path could well be the choice to go for, one less thing to compensate for, while learning. Like the idea of the no sweet spot as well.

[turbo33]

Think my biggest problem is the .177 or .22, though with the .177 having a streighter flight path could well be the choice to go for, one less thing to compensate for, while learning. Like the idea of the no sweet spot as well.

 

If you need a little more convincing, look at my post here from last week, its a .177 using Air Arms field pellets

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/177433-few-bunnies-tonight/

Edited August 24, 2011 by turbo33

[turbo33]

Not sure what your trying to say Fattoad

[BerettaSV10]

If you need a little more convincing, look at my post here from last week, its a .177 using Air Arms field pellets

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/177433-few-bunnies-tonight/

 

 

Thanks looks like its one thing sorted .177

 

About 60 40 in favour of the HW100 depending on sight of the S410

[Fat toad]

Hi like your self only started a few months ago you are doing every thing right asking and getting good advice before you make up your mind if you want a all rounder if the beast as been made I never found it what help me was what I would be doing most with it and that is bench shooting at my club shooting paper target out to 75yds so I brought my first pcp which is a WH 100t and it suits this purpose very well as it is heavy mine is just over 10lbs with scope moderator and full mag so not a all rounder if I were to say a all rounder it would have to be air arms lite versions of the 410 may be the 510 I won't comment on 22 or 177 only that I like 177 as I get longer ranges at my targets hope my post helps I use a MTC viper 3-12x44 my eyes are getting old and after asking members on here I got my scope and love it can knock a drawing pin in at 60yards I hope you get what you want Frank

[BerettaSV10]

Fat toad, thanks think the scope you mentioned fits the bill in optic diamiter and manufacture my freind recomended, has the scope got a 30 mm tube on it as another thing recomended to let more light through?

 

On thing thats a problem for me is the eyes as well, a sign of my illness.

 

The other option is where to get it from, I do like to support my local gun shop, who has always provided excellent support and advice through out my shooting carear, although I do compare prices. So far my local shop has been competatively priced when compared with others

 

Air tank and gauge sorted apart from either a 3 ltr 300 bar pony or 15 ltr 232 bar tank.

 

.177 size barrel

 

Accessories gun bag will buy when I get the gun

 

Pellets think might have to look at these options for target and bunny shooting as leaning towards the HW100 and it appears that different makes of gun like different pellts.

 

Next will be what sort of equipment accessories do I need for cleaning, like can I use the same oils I use on the shotguns on the air rifle?

 

Have I missed any thing off the list?

[hypoboy]

My HW100 carbine seems a bit of a gas guzzler, so I'd go for the biggest bottle you can afford. 15l 232 bar should give around twice as many fills as the 3l 300 bar. Might be worth holding out for the right deal on a 12l 300 bar if you're going to use the gun a lot.

 

With the scope, if your eyesight's not 20/20, I'd recommend taking a look through a Hawke scope with the SR6 reticle. It's got quite thick markings which makes it a lot easier on the eyes than my other mildot and half mil scopes. I've got the Hawke Nite-Eye 4-16x50 SR6 on the HW100 and can't really fault it.

 

The HW100 isn't particularly pellet fussy. I use AA Fields all the time and find them fine.

[Fat toad]

Fat toad, thanks think the scope you mentioned fits the bill in optic diamiter and manufacture my freind recomended, has the scope got a 30 mm tube on it as another thing recomended to let more light through?

 

On thing thats a problem for me is the eyes as well, a sign of my illness.

 

The other option is where to get it from, I do like to support my local gun shop, who has always provided excellent support and advice through out my shooting carear, although I do compare prices. So far my local shop has been competatively priced when compared with others

 

Air tank and gauge sorted apart from either a 3 ltr 300 bar pony or 15 ltr 232 bar tank.

 

.177 size barrel

 

Accessories gun bag will buy when I get the gun

 

Pellets think might have to look at these options for target and bunny shooting as leaning towards the HW100 and it appears that different makes of gun like different pellts.

 

Next will be what sort of equipment accessories do I need for cleaning, like can I use the same oils I use on the shotguns on the air rifle?

 

Have I missed any thing off the list?

[Fat toad]

Hi friend thanks for the post it sounds like you want to hunt I think most of the members know me and I do go on a bit but I will tell you I am nearly 60 and love bench shooting on occasion I have stood up and tried to hit a 1"target 35yards the sight really wobbles with the weight of the HW they are beast but dammed accurate please please try some out with all it's extras scope bipod fitted my scope tube is 30mm and the front lens is 44mm my scope was £220 at optic warehouse you do not have to pay this sort of money out for one there are other very good brands to choose from as I have said I shoot paper I am hoping a hunting member will take you under is wing all I can say is I would not like to lug my Hw100 over fields and through woods I would be knacked after 30min any way it would get all dirty and scratched ha ha well now write down information members give you the main points that is then ask your mate what he thinks then both of you go to your local shop and ask what kind of deal he can do you as a combo package please try the weight it's you who will be lugging it around ps is their a hunter member who can give more advise to this post o yes the other stuff you want to know about is best done in a few separate post as their is quite a lot to answer in one post take notes of all the answers and pick out what suits your budget Frank

[BerettaSV10]

I am not that far behind you in age, I plan to visit the gun shop next week to have a look at them both, hopefully should be meeting him there as well. From all the posts it seams the only down side of the HW is the weight of the gun.

 

Not sure if I will spend £220 on a scope to start with, but as they say spend once and get it right or buy cheap and wrong then have to buy again.

 

I would like to try bunnie hunting, though the bunnies would need to find a free home for eating or food for some ones ferrets etc, as not keen on eating them.

 

From the posts I can make a shopping list and see what deals are going around.

 

Hawke scope of some kind is now on the list.

 

.177 gun, got to be a s400 or HW

 

Thanks for all the help and advice every one has given me, I do have a few more questions regarding the HW so will creat a new thread.

[Fat toad]

I am not that far behind you in age, I plan to visit the gun shop next week to have a look at them both, hopefully should be meeting him there as well. From all the posts it seams the only down side of the HW is the weight of the gun.

 

Not sure if I will spend £220 on a scope to start with, but as they say spend once and get it right or buy cheap and wrong then have to buy again.

 

I would like to try bunnie hunting, though the bunnies would need to find a free home for eating or food for some ones ferrets etc, as not keen on eating them.

 

From the posts I can make a shopping list and see what deals are going around.

 

Hawke scope of some kind is now on the list.

 

.177 gun, got to be a s400 or HW

 

Thanks for all the help and advice every one has given me, I do have a few more questions regarding the HW so will creat a new thread.

[-Mongrel-]

I am not that far behind you in age, I plan to visit the gun shop next week to have a look at them both, hopefully should be meeting him there as well. From all the posts it seams the only down side of the HW is the weight of the gun.

 

Not sure if I will spend £220 on a scope to start with, but as they say spend once and get it right or buy cheap and wrong then have to buy again.

 

I think that you've hit the nail on the head here. Both guns are VERY good and very accurate, and if you only want to shoot targets from a rest/bipod/prone then there's nothing between them. The HW seems to use a bit more air, the S410 has a smaller mag, that's about it.

 

If you want to shoot HFT or live quarry then in my opinion the weight is the deciding factor. I've shot with both and own an Air Arms. To be honest I struggle with the weight of the HW pretty quickly when standing, kneeling or seated (less so seated) and if you are trudging across a field or three, you'll soon notice the difference (2.7kg as opposed to the 3.8kg HW), it may not seem much but by the time you add bipod, scope, lamp etc, it soon becomes noticeable. I too shoot .177 and find it more than adequate to cleanly kill.

Edited August 25, 2011 by -Mongrel-

[Fat toad]

Hi friend I am so glad you have stopped to think people seldom do the first set up is always the most expensive I bunged mine on credit card so was able to get what I know will last you sound a bit down is every thing ok I know it's alot to take in but you are now in a good club a member will always help in any way they can yes they do have some very heated discussion but it's because they live airguns with a passion so please keep your post coming and slowly but surely a pattern will appear and you will have grate set up you can try the second hand goods you can get whole set ups for a good price I've brought a few things my self this way on are own forum it's call trading post on the home page there is all so one on airgunsbbs hope this helps Frank