gixerjas Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 I'm looking to buy a gun mounted lamp for rimfire .22LR and .17HMR use and probably with my .223 at some time in the future. I want to be able to clearly identify targets to a minimum of 100 yards with a red filter. I have searched previous posts but haven't had much luck finding some definitive answers. My experience of lamps only goes as far as the old Logun lamp that I used with an air rifle and a quick look at a lightforce one evening. I'm guessing that I'll basically need a lamp with a reasonable size reflector and a power hungry bulb. So far my choices seem to come down to; Lightforce, which seems too expensive for the very plastic build quality although the Ucaller light appears to be identical or the A1 Decoying lamp I found on youtube at half the price. or Clulite Shootalite or Nightsearcher NS400 All of the above seem to be based on a light unit and switch and require a separate battery. I've got 12v li-ion battery pack that I could use from a set of lumicycle bike lights I've got so potentially I could use that rather than use a much heavier battery. An alternative would be to go for one the new self-contained CREE LED lamps, which I like the idea of, but I've no idea how these would perform with a filter. Also if I wanted to add a dimmer to a LED it probably wouldn't be straightforward. And then there is the HID lamp for £100....... I'm confused by 'too much choice' and could do with some honest advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusSmart Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Ahh you and me both! I have posted on this topic as well recently, with mixed views. I currently use a Deben Max Pro with a 12V 7ah battery, and have been looking at updating to LED. What I can gather is with the LED lamps once a red filter/diffuser is fitted the led wave length is reduced substantially. However I have been doing some research and have come across a Thrunite Catapult V3, this I have been informed will produce a beam out to 100M with a red filter. This is not cheap at £120 for the lamp only (no battery, charger, pressure switch, filter or gun mount!) So bundled up you are going to be looking at £225ish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) I'm looking to buy a gun mounted lamp for rimfire .22LR and .17HMR use and probably with my .223 at some time in the future. I want to be able to clearly identify targets to a minimum of 100 yards with a red filter. I have searched previous posts but haven't had much luck finding some definitive answers. You dont say if you are mobile (truck mounted) or on foot? most lamps when fitted with a red filter will show eyes at 100 yards and not who they belong too as so much light is lost, thats why many shoot under orange or white light My experience of lamps only goes as far as the old Logun lamp that I used with an air rifle and a quick look at a lightforce one evening. I'm guessing that I'll basically need a lamp with a reasonable size reflector and a power hungry bulb. So far my choices seem to come down to; Lightforce, which seems too expensive for the very plastic build quality although the Ucaller light appears to be identical or the A1 Decoying lamp I found on youtube at half the price. or Clulite Shootalite or Nightsearcher NS400 A lightforce 140 with a vertical filliment 75 watts covers most applications, I prefer the the 170 but have now swithced to NV All of the above seem to be based on a light unit and switch and require a separate battery. I've got 12v li-ion battery pack that I could use from a set of lumicycle bike lights I've got so potentially I could use that rather than use a much heavier battery. An alternative would be to go for one the new self-contained CREE LED lamps, which I like the idea of, but I've no idea how these would perform with a filter. Also if I wanted to add a dimmer to a LED it probably wouldn't be straightforward. many self contained run down very quick best option is a seperate batt packAnd then there is the HID lamp for £100....... I'm confused by 'too much choice' and could do with some honest advice. Most makes have a weakness in one area or another but the Lightforce are IMHO prob still the best out there, expensive yes and they can need repairs to the ciggy lighter adaptor as the solder tends to melt or plastic crack, i have chopped mine off and fitted bullet connectors from Halfords (end of problem) Edited September 7, 2011 by pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 I don't think a Shootalite will suit you. I'd be very surprised if you can id at 100 yds with a red filter on one. There's just too much light spill. I have one and its ok to about 70 yds filtered which I find fine for rabbits, but for longer range foxing you have to lose the filter. Cluson have now brought out the Interceptor, which is supposed to have a very tight beam with no spill and be good for 300 yds unfiltered. A red filter will reduce light emission by about a 1/3, so in theory the Interceptor should be good for 100 yds filtered. Haven't tried one though. Maybe You can get one sale or return from Cluson to try. One tip I can offer is that factory red filters are generally too dense. It is better and much cheaper to make a filter from a piece of red acetate from an art shop and either fit it between the lens and the bulb or strap it to the front with an elastic band. A round hole in the middle of the filter, about 1/5 its diameter increases light transmission without whitening the beam. Of the LED torch type lamps, the Inovatech Tiablo A10-G is highly regarded if pricey - £245. Tight 300 yd beam. I know foxers who do use them. I don't like LEDs myself because they can't be used with a dimmer and when you switch them on they all seem to start on high power and you have to click through to find low, which to my mind is the wrong way round. Very good lamp though if you like LEDs. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 Well i dont use filters, i have a feeling all they do is dim the light down a bit. Std cluelight for me dont even bother with the 100 wat bulbs. 100yds is a very long way on Rabbits etc with the rimfires at night on the lamp, if you can shoot good headshots at 100 standing during the day your good at night your awsome. This is because quite simply you have limited vision and can't see wind and when your quarry is fully settled. I use the same foxing, you can simply go too bright and you can definatly spend too much. I got plenty with an old car spotlight with a home made handle and a motorbike battery year back, i ruined one kichen floor a stack of rucksacks and at least two jackets with acid spills though I can only say one thing 100% on the gear and that is get one of those new Lithium ion batteries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 if you can shoot good headshots at 100 standing during the day your good at night your awsome. This is because quite simply you have limited vision and can't see wind and when your quarry is fully settled. maybe not standing but we shoot regularly to 125 plus but then thats the perks of an HMR and lamping off a pickup roof so you have a perfect rest. This you can do with a lightforce 170 with red or amber filter. Our rabbits just don't sit under a white light, basically the lightforce will do all you want, ok use it a lot and you will need to renew the wiring but I've got two that I've had for 10 years plus and they really owe me nothing now. What I haven't tried is the deben copy which is a lot cheaper and may be worth a look. Foxing white light with a dimmer is fine usually though if we are rabbiting you still pick them up at 250 yards plus with a red filter if your eyes are keen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 maybe not standing but we shoot regularly to 125 plus but then thats the perks of an HMR and lamping off a pickup roof so you have a perfect rest. This you can do with a lightforce 170 with red or amber filter. Our rabbits just don't sit under a white light, basically the lightforce will do all you want, ok use it a lot and you will need to renew the wiring but I've got two that I've had for 10 years plus and they really owe me nothing now. What I haven't tried is the deben copy which is a lot cheaper and may be worth a look. Foxing white light with a dimmer is fine usually though if we are rabbiting you still pick them up at 250 yards plus with a red filter if your eyes are keen. If you tried on foot you wouldn't have to shoot at them in the distance Tell me how do you call the wind or do you just go centremass and leave them for the crows? Filters only Dim imo light is light till it goes IR, and needing keen eyes to spot is all well and good but the shot still cant be taken without total confidence your not shooting the farm cat, someones dog - or a guy watching wildlife with NV gear so what use is having keen eyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 wind you are in the elements sitting on top and round here we do get still evenings. Most will be head shots but not fussed with front end shots as realistically its vermin control and even with front end shots most of the meat is back end so doesn't seem that affected. If I'm not doing the shooting I'll be lamping and the farmer is on top and shot placement is the least of his worries when they are on his wheat. On foot is a nice idea but 500 acres we would be there all night whereas we can do the lot in a couple of hours thoroughly by vehicle. As for shooting things you shouldn't if you don't shoot into hedges and have decent optics there is no problem with species ID at those ranges with a lightforce any question with a filter on you just flip it off till you are sure. Ours are reasonable sized arable fields where the main issue is not shooting hares and thats still pretty straightforward. Simple fact is our rabbits don't sit under a white light but they do under red, if you stick to white then a dimmer is essential especially foxing wise. We always dim to the minimum once we find one while calling then up it for the shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 In photography I learned that a ruby-red filter reduces light transmission by 75%. If I remember correctly that means a filtered lamp only emits a quarter of the output of an unfiltered lamp, which actually equates to around half the distance an unfiltered lamp would shine. However, when you factor in reflection from the filter and light scatter, a filtered lamp would probably shine for much less than half the distance an unfiltered lamp would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannywayoflife Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 Clusion blazerlite. Mine is awesome! And British too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixerjas Posted September 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 I'm very tempted to just go for a Lightforce 170 or 140 and just see how I get on with it. If I didn't feel that they aren't value for money then I'm sure I would already of bought one, which is why I'm caught up in worrying about not spending wisely. As far as the hmr goes, I more often than not head shoot rabbits at 100yrds, off sticks, without any problems. What I'd ideally like to do is continue to do what I've been doing but at night. My concern is that the farm cat often follows me so I want to be absolutely sure about what I'm seeing before pulling the trigger, I'm not prepared to take a shot without positively identifying what I'm shooting. If the Lightforce can do that for me then I'll be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 (edited) Lightforce 170 with dimmer every time, they are perhaps not the best build quality but they are easy to fix if they play up and they throw a great light IMO. Cable tie the dimmer switch to the back of the light so you can lamp and vary the brightness with one hand rather than chasing down the cable for the switch whilst holding the lamp. An amber filter, if you choose to use a filter, gives better light than a red filter. Edit to say: quality of the optics becomes far, far more important at night. Edited September 8, 2011 by WGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAK0 Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 (edited) Two good replies above. I've always used lightforce I mainly shoot foxes I'd go for the 170 with dimmer as said above. My ideal lamp would be the blitz beam but mountable. The 140 is more compact and neater on the gun but didn't quite have the clarity at distance I required. The 170's better but big on the gun and gets knocked alot but that's what I'd go for if I had to choose. I don't use either I get someone else to shine the blitz or out alone I use NV. I've also got the catapult v3 it doesn't throw as far as a deben max but both have a half decent light but to much spread for my liking I prefer a pencil beam for shooting at distance. Edit to say: if you go for a lightforce you'll have no trouble selling it if you really don't get on with it for some reason. I had a blitz for over 10 years and sold it on the bay for the best part of what I paid for it, I wouldn't have asked for half. Edited September 8, 2011 by SAK0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Has anyone got any experience of the Deben Tri-Star or Tri-Star Pro and how they perform with a red filter? Also, any ideas on the mount and how it can be adjusted to align with the point of aim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Gould Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 i have used a deben tracer max on my .17 hmr to great affect it realy light to use. it does struggle a bit with a red filter although 100 yards shoudnt be a problem, but now i have moved to a amber filter and can see alot further than am capeable of shooting out to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I was wondering what the performance of the LED lights was rather than the xenon bulbs that the Max uses. How effective did you find the mount was? Did you need to adjust it and if so was this easily done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 100 yards with red then a Lampforce 170. No real experience of what else is currently out there. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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