njc110381 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) 17AH Hornet is ideal but needs reloading, that MAY be changing soon as its rumoured that Hornady is to introduce it as a factory round. A Really?... Oh ******! Anyone want to sell me one? I'm not at all surprised. It is a very good round and I always wondered why nobody had put it into production. It's a .17 Fireball that uses half the powder! Edit... If I start working on it now maybe I can shoot the barrel out on my .22 in time for the new brass to make it into the shops? Edited September 12, 2011 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Really?... Oh ******! Anyone want to sell me one? I'm not at all surprised. It is a very good round and I always wondered why nobody had put it into production. It's a .17 Fireball that uses half the powder! Edit... If I start working on it now maybe I can shoot the barrel out on my .22 in time for the new brass to make it into the shops? I doubt you could shoot a .22 hornet out, specially with lil gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 you'll begin to raise the walt alarm. sorry for being thick, but what is a "walt"? seen it mentioned a couple of times here now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 sorry for being thick, but what is a "walt"? seen it mentioned a couple of times here now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 I don't see why someone asking for a small centrefire for vermin would be seen as a "walt" Al4x? I'd say that perhaps they see past that and realise that the more keen shots among us are willing to put the time in to have a better round for a similar cost to the HMR. Those that can't be bothered to learn or put in the time stick to what is easy. Not having a go, I'm simply stating that the rimfire way really isn't the only way to do pest control. MY FEO knows that I think the HMR is junk. For cheap bunny bashing I will support the .22lr all the way but the HMR is expensive enough that you can run better tools for the same money. Do you really fire over 100 rounds per night regularly? I mean really? A good night to me sees off 50 rounds and they don't take long to bung together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Gould Posted September 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 i do realy want a center fire and reload my own but its just the though of buying all the gear and knowing what to do which i dont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 I don't see why someone asking for a small centrefire for vermin would be seen as a "walt" Al4x? I'd say that perhaps they see past that and realise that the more keen shots among us are willing to put the time in to have a better round for a similar cost to the HMR. Those that can't be bothered to learn or put in the time stick to what is easy. Not having a go, I'm simply stating that the rimfire way really isn't the only way to do pest control. MY FEO knows that I think the HMR is junk. For cheap bunny bashing I will support the .22lr all the way but the HMR is expensive enough that you can run better tools for the same money. Do you really fire over 100 rounds per night regularly? I mean really? A good night to me sees off 50 rounds and they don't take long to bung together. I'll do 200 rounds a month in the key months and thats without trying lifes too short to reload those numbers. If I go out much on one estate we do use 50 every time out, I've no need for a one gun does all approach as lamping is from the truck foxes get it with a more capable tool than the hornet and rabbits with a smaller gun on factory ammo that costs a similar amount to shotgun ammo. Matt if you really want to then learning to reload isn't hard and someone local would probably talk you through the basics but if you use much its a ball ache. For centerfire for foxes and deer its easy to justify but for bunny bashing fine if you don't shoot much but if you do its making life hard for yourself for next to no benefit in the field. On paper and in theory then yes but all you do with rimfires is adjust your shooting according to weather and conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Hornet reloading really isn't a ballache. Dead simple and very quick. Matt, quite happy to show you. I have a lee press I can sell also which will do hornet no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 I'll do 200 rounds a month in the key months and thats without trying lifes too short to reload those numbers. If I go out much on one estate we do use 50 every time out, I've no need for a one gun does all approach as lamping is from the truck foxes get it with a more capable tool than the hornet and rabbits with a smaller gun on factory ammo that costs a similar amount to shotgun ammo. Matt if you really want to then learning to reload isn't hard and someone local would probably talk you through the basics but if you use much its a ball ache. For centerfire for foxes and deer its easy to justify but for bunny bashing fine if you don't shoot much but if you do its making life hard for yourself for next to no benefit in the field. On paper and in theory then yes but all you do with rimfires is adjust your shooting according to weather and conditions. You dont reload do you? 200 rounds a months a snip. like bricklaying or anything else when you get into it you can fair knock them out. 200 a night is a very differnt situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 I'm lucky to get out once a week these days and generally prefer to carry a gun easily capable on any quarry. I can totally understand AL4X's point of view but I doubt I have shot 200 rabbits this year so I am happy playing by other rules regarding reloading numbers and ranges. the only time I deviate from this approach is that I do love the peace and quiet shooting a few bunnies with my 22lr. The other point is that I never shoot from a vehicle either where I know light, handy rifles are wonderful. I toy with the idea of another 17 HMR but I was let down on one the other week that I wanted to use for some moderator tests and Im cold on the subject again now. I can see their benefits in a rimfire but in a centrefire, .22's are just so easy to live with, my .222 is just sublime. For me if unpaid it turns hunting into murdering - cant see the point in a truck, anyway you wouldn't get very far into the fields i hunt with a normal 4x4 and would loose the permision in the morning through the damage you would create. Your thoughts are pretty much as mine Fister as regards gun choice, there is a cure for the HMR thoughts though (get a hornet)lil gun meters better than any powder i ever tried BTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 If I was shooting from a truck and had two rifles I would carry a rimfire and larger centrefire too, but I walk so that's not going to happen. A lot of farmers around here don't like their fields being driven on. As a carry gun the HMR is just too light. Great for bunnies but if a Fox pops out at range it's a tough call to think "I don't have the gun for this so I'll leave him" - it's the right decision and the one I used to take but if you've got a farmer or keeper on your back about their stock getting taken you'd best hope they don't find out you let charlie walk away into the night! Then there's the .223, but if you're walking for mainly bunnies it's a lot of boom for no gain. You get twice the number of Hornet rounds from a tub of powder so there's quite a difference in cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 For me if unpaid it turns hunting into murdering - cant see the point in a truck, anyway you wouldn't get very far into the fields i hunt with a normal 4x4 and would loose the permision in the morning through the damage you would create. Your thoughts are pretty much as mine Fister as regards gun choice, there is a cure for the HMR thoughts though (get a hornet)lil gun meters better than any powder i ever tried BTW so basically you don't shoot many bunnies which is fair enough. We have the intelligent lamping approach to field damage, for starters we do have a fair few tracks which are mostly made up so can be used in all but the worst conditions, when you can shoot to 125yards plus each side thats a load of ground you can cover. Then we have a spring burst in activity between late feb and march when we run round the tramlines till the crop gets too high, this is entirely weather or frost dependant so basically when it doesn't do damage. Usually my mate drives who happens to be the farmer and the sprayer driver so not too many issues there. Must be working though as his agronomist suggests he has the least damage from rabbits in the area. Basically if you play and just shoot a few for the pot the hornet will do it but word carefully to the FEO why you need a centrefire for rabbits as most won't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 If I was shooting from a truck and had two rifles I would carry a rimfire and larger centrefire too, but I walk so that's not going to happen. A lot of farmers around here don't like their fields being driven on. As a carry gun the HMR is just too light. Great for bunnies but if a Fox pops out at range it's a tough call to think "I don't have the gun for this so I'll leave him" - it's the right decision and the one I used to take but if you've got a farmer or keeper on your back about their stock getting taken you'd best hope they don't find out you let charlie walk away into the night! Then there's the .223, but if you're walking for mainly bunnies it's a lot of boom for no gain. You get twice the number of Hornet rounds from a tub of powder so there's quite a difference in cost. I'm not quite following this one, if the farmer/landowner has a problem with foxes then go and deal with the foxes, don't go thinking he may just turn up whilst you are after bunnies, on that basis you should take the .308 for bunnies in case the Deer or Boar turned up ! ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 We have had this debate on numerous occasions about a SINGLE Rabbit and Fox gun, the reality is there isn't one. These are different quarry, that can present in many different ways at many different distances on wildly differing sites. You need 2 guns at least, but as always if you must have one it is likely to be a Hornet, particularly if you reload, or maybe the RF .22WMR (perhaps not if your primary concern is the wind ). I have 7 different FAC calibres in the cabinet for the simple reason they all excel at different things! None is better than the other, they are all excellent! ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 so basically you don't shoot many bunnies which is fair enough. We have the intelligent lamping approach to field damage, for starters we do have a fair few tracks which are mostly made up so can be used in all but the worst conditions, when you can shoot to 125yards plus each side thats a load of ground you can cover. Then we have a spring burst in activity between late feb and march when we run round the tramlines till the crop gets too high, this is entirely weather or frost dependant so basically when it doesn't do damage. Usually my mate drives who happens to be the farmer and the sprayer driver so not too many issues there. Must be working though as his agronomist suggests he has the least damage from rabbits in the area. Basically if you play and just shoot a few for the pot the hornet will do it but word carefully to the FEO why you need a centrefire for rabbits as most won't understand. Not quite true, i have had some massive bags over the years and no doubt i will again. presently its about keeping them in check. Remember i have used both the HMR and Hornet and am in a good place to compare. Besides the odd ones i have blown up by using the wrong gun etc. I have always picked every single bunny i could find- i include making three trips home one time because we physically couldn't fit them all in the car in one go. I don't realy care for the 4x4 approach myself but then again when i was out the other night the mud in some gateways was impassible, i mean sinking past your knees deep. To me driving reminds me more of work than sport, pay me and i will drive around no issue but i shall not look on it as sport or fun, thats just me I once went out for Roe with a guy who basically drove around looking for them then got out walked a few hundred yards and shot them, didn't float my boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 I don't realy care for the 4x4 approach myself but then again when i was out the other night the mud in some gateways was impassible, i mean sinking past your knees deep. To me driving reminds me more of work than sport, pay me and i will drive around no issue but i shall not look on it as sport or fun, thats just me I once went out for Roe with a guy who basically drove around looking for them then got out walked a few hundred yards and shot them, didn't float my boat. you really have missed out, the best sport on the planet is shooting rabbits with a shotgun from a pickup, as for the rest well I obviously have too much ground for the leisure approach and I actually don't know anyone who seriously lamps either foxes or rabbits purely on foot. Deer stalking is totally different and a different ball game though I can see why you are leading it that way as its the only real argument you can use to try and intimate lamping from a 4x4 isn't the done thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 you really have missed out, the best sport on the planet is shooting rabbits with a shotgun from a pickup, as for the rest well I obviously have too much ground for the leisure approach and I actually don't know anyone who seriously lamps either foxes or rabbits purely on foot. Deer stalking is totally different and a different ball game though I can see why you are leading it that way as its the only real argument you can use to try and intimate lamping from a 4x4 isn't the done thing. Oh, i have done it Quad, tractor, Golf buggy, pick-up, landrover even an old Yugo- just don't like it feel its shooting not hunting. Personal thing not trying to be superiour, i have killed a lot of stuff over the years sometimes for the wrong reasons now i just want to do things my way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 I'm not quite following this one, if the farmer/landowner has a problem with foxes then go and deal with the foxes, don't go thinking he may just turn up whilst you are after bunnies, on that basis you should take the .308 for bunnies in case the Deer or Boar turned up ! ATB! It's easy really. I have farms where both Foxes and Rabbits need to be shot. If I'm out Foxing with a bigger rifle and I see a bunny I will shoot it, but I don't head out looking for bunnies with a large centrefire as there's no need. On the same note if the farmer says to me that he wants the bunnies knocking back then I will usually take the Hornet - it's not too big to use like others use the HMR but if a Fox does happen to appear it has that little extra punch that means you can push the ranges out a bit. Shooting really is an each to their own type thing and it's hard to agree on a "right" way to do things because there isn't one. Every farmer has a different idea of how he wants his pests dealt with and every piece of land has it's own features that can make walking a pointless exercise or a 4x4 an absolute no go. Most of my shooting is in small paddocks or on very steep ground. You'd either be opening a gate every 100 yards or leaving the truck in the bottom of the valley because you can't get it out again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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